I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Butler. I call Senator O'Loughlin.
Sex Offenders (Amendment) (Coercive Control) Bill 2023: Second Stage
Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
I thank the Minister of State for being with us to discuss this important Bill. I must say that I am disappointed the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, is not here because I had spoken to her about this legislation in the past and I also had a Commencement matter in relation to it. Jason Poole, who is joining us in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery today, has had several meetings with the Minister, Deputy McEntee. Whatever about me, I would have hoped that Jason would have been afforded that respect. Nonetheless, I very much appreciate that the Minister of State is here. I thank her for that.
None of us can imagine the courage it takes for a woman to walk or run away from an abusive partner. The toxic power struggle these women endure is unimaginable, but we must try to imagine ourselves there for the sake of those who are. We must try to imagine what it is like to be drowning in a life of fear, to imagine what it is like to never be able to relax in your home, to imagine what it is like to never know what is coming next - an assault, an attack, your children being attacked or for them to witness you being attacked, to imagine what it is like as a family member watching and fearing that your daughter, your sister or your friend is going through something like this but you can never get the opportunity to speak about it and, when you do, it is too late. Imagine the courage it takes to walk out of your home, away from your abuser, to seek refuge, to say that you were wrong and made a bad judgment and that now you see the pattern.
Imagine the courage it took Jennifer Poole to end her relationship with her domestic abuser, Gavin Murphy. She had endured a relationship of mental and physical abuse and was trying to piece her life together for herself and her two children. She made one mistake. Out of kindness, she allowed her abuser back into her apartment to have a shower. She wisely left the apartment, returning when she believed he had left, but he had not. Seven seconds is all it took for Jennifer's life to be taken, her children left motherless, her parents left without their daughter, Jason without his sister.
I am here this evening to give voice to Jennifer Poole and to other women without voices who live in fear of speaking up and speaking out. I am here to argue for and to demand legislation to support women in crisis. These are women who are at risk, some who have gathered their courage to make life-altering decisions and who are holding their lives and safety, and those of their children, in their empty hands.
This Bill, which I am proud to introduce and propose tonight, calls for the implementation of a domestic violence register that will function in a similar manner to the sex offenders register. The legislation provides that a person convicted of the offence of coercive control is required to notify the Garda of their name and address and any change to those details to ensure the information recorded by An Garda Síochána is accurate and always up to date. This Bill, when enacted, will be known as "Jennie's Law", as it is inspired by the tragic death of Jennifer Poole.
I have been working closely with her brother, Jason Poole, and I acknowledge his presence here this evening. Many of us have had the opportunity to meet him and to listen to the awful story of his sister being murdered by her ex-partner, who had actually done time previously for domestic violence.
Violence against women is an epidemic not just in Ireland, but around the world. We have seen high-profile murders in recent years that have brought these issues front and centre. These brutal deaths enabled other women to talk about their fears. More importantly, the death of women through acts of violence forced society to listen to that reality. We now need society and the political system to address these very real fears, urgently and comprehensively, and to take an honest look at how the system responds to and meets the needs of women. As legislators, we in Leinster House have a duty to act and to do everything we can to ensure the strongest legislative response possible. There is absolutely no doubt that action is required and that it is required quickly.
We could talk endlessly about the statistics, which are stark, bleak and disturbing. Behind those statistics are terrified women, children and family members. According to Women's Aid, there were 256 incidents in which women died violently between 1996 and today. Some 20 children have died in incidents where women have died violently, 163 women have been killed in their homes and 87% of women killed were killed by a man known to them. Women of any age can be victims of femicide but women under the age of 35 make up 50% of cases in Ireland.
With the creation of a register similar to the one proposed in this Bill, we would be supporting An Garda Síochána and our justice system by providing them with the information they so desperately need to help save the lives of women who would not otherwise be aware that they are in a relationship with an abuser. Reading this week's newspapers, I see a very similar situation emerging. Jennifer's Bill calls for the implementation of a domestic violence register that would function in a similar manner to the sexual offenders register. The Bill provides that people convicted of the offence of coercive control would be required to notify An Garda Síochána of their names and addresses to ensure that the information recorded by An Garda Síochána is accurate and always up to date. This Bill provides for the enactment of legislation granting a person in an intimate relationship the entitlement to access information on convictions their partner has for the offence of coercive control or any other offence under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person perpetrated against another person with whom that partner was in an intimate relationship. The entitlement to access this information also extends to a close family member of the person.
During this debate, I want to again recognise and pay tribute to the very valuable work of Jason Poole, who has been campaigning for a domestic violence register since his sister, Jennifer, was murdered in April 2021. As I have mentioned, while it was unknown to Jennifer, Murphy had a history of domestic violence. Jason has campaigned tirelessly for the establishment of a register to ensure that no family has to endure the horrific trauma the Poole family has endured since Jennifer's life was taken. The murder of Jennifer and other high-profile murders in recent years focused attention on the horrific acts of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence taking place in our society. I acknowledge that, under this Government, there has been a greater focus on tackling domestic and gender-based violence. That work is highly important but we must do more.
On the domestic violence register, the United Kingdom's domestic violence disclosure scheme was introduced following the murder of Clare Wood through Clare's Law. Ms Wood was killed by a former partner who was known to Greater Manchester Police for having previously committed violent crimes against women. This disclosure scheme was adopted in England and Wales in 2014, in Scotland in 2016 and in Northern Ireland in 2018. In the UK, the domestic violence disclosure scheme introduced two processes for disclosing information. The first is triggered by a request from a member of the public who approaches the police. This is known as the right to ask. The second is triggered by the police and is known as the right to know. In this case, the police proactively inform a potential victim about a partner's history of abuse. It should be noted that the UK scheme is an administrative scheme and does not operate on a statutory footing. However, figures show that, in 2022, 7,238 disclosures were made in England and Wales under the right to know procedure while 8,383 were made under the right to ask.
Violence against women is not just an issue facing us in Ireland; it is an international issue. In my role as leader of the Irish delegation to the Council of Europe, I have debated this issue in the Parliament at Strasbourg. We need to learn from our counterparts in the Council of Europe. My colleague in PACE, Petra Stienen of the Netherlands, authored a report on how men and boys can be agents of change in confronting gender-based violence. This is not a women's issue for women to solve. It is a societal issue for society to solve. Gender-based violence affects society as a whole and should be recognised as a global human rights issue. In Europe, it is estimated that one in three women is a survivor of gender-based violence so we are not alone in trying to tackle these issues.
As the Minister of State's portfolio relates to health, I will briefly mention the impact of domestic violence on women's health. The World Health Organization states that women who have experienced domestic violence are at an increased risk of depression and suicide attempts, physical injuries, psychosomatic disorders, unplanned pregnancies, HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. Some 30% of women who experience domestic violence in Ireland are physically assaulted for the first time during pregnancy. Evidence shows that 49% of women injured by their partners required medical treatment and 10% required a hospital stay. That is absolutely shocking and, as a national community, we are facing the very harsh reality that many women in Ireland are unfortunately living in fear of violence.
I thank Deputy Jim O'Callaghan and Councillor Deirdre Heney for their help but, most of all, I thank Jason for continuing to tell his story and to battle for other women so they will not go through what his family has gone through. I commend the motion and really hope the Minister of State will endorse it. I will now ask my seconder to speak.
I second the motion. I commend Senator O'Loughlin on bringing this Bill to the House. I am very proud to support it. I commend Jason Poole on his tireless work in the midst of unbelievable horror and grief for his family. He has turned that into a positive and tried to do something that is badly needed for the women of Ireland, that is, creating this register. I really commend Jason on his tireless campaigning, along with Senator O'Loughlin, Councillor Deirdre Heney and our colleague, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, in the Dáil.
It is vitally important that we do something. Too many women are dying in their homes at the hands of intimate partners or former intimate partners. Quite often, red flags are raised but they sometimes go unnoticed or people doubt their own interpretation of them. If the register and alerts like those Senator O'Loughlin has described operating in other jurisdictions were in operation, people would be able to get the information they need to stay safe. These abusers do not change. Once an abuser, always an abuser. If somebody has convictions for coercive control or violence towards an intimate partner or former intimate partner, they are going to do it again, which can end up in even more tragic consequences. In an effort to keep women safe, we need to introduce this measure. I really hope the Minister, Deputy McEntee, will look favourably on this and proceed with it. It is unfortunate she is not here to hear this debate. I hope action will be taken at this point. In a previous life, I was a family lawyer and dealt with domestic violence applications in the District Court. Such orders and our courts system are not sufficient.
Often, the processes that are there do not adequately protect people who are experiencing violence. Unfortunately, too many women are dying in their own homes, such as Jennifer Poole, at the hands of a known abuser. I think we should reiterate that point. He had abused previous partners. Jennifer did not know she was at grave risk or that her children were at grave risk of being left without their mother. If she had known, far more steps would have been taken to protect her and her family. It is really stark when you think about it, that she did everything right, she ended the relationship and because she was such a kind-hearted person, she showed kindness to this abuser and he killed her. I remember when Jennifer was murdered. She lived not too far away from where I live. It was really shocking. I know people who worked with Jennifer and would have known what a lovely person she was, and what a good mother and kind-hearted person she was.
What we need to do is elevate the seriousness of domestic violence. We have a sexual offenders register. Domestic violence is just as corrosive to the individual and just as harmful to the individual and to society as sexual violence. We need this Bill to be acted upon immediately. I hope the Minister, Deputy McEntee, will take a good look at this Bill. Let us all work together across both Houses and all parties to do right by Jennie Poole and all the other women that have unfortunately died or suffered injury and trauma down through the years.
On behalf of the Fine Gael group I welcome this legislation. I think it makes absolute sense. The offence of coercive control being outside the canon of offences that are included in the sex offenders register does not really make sense, so it is entirely appropriate that they would be brought in under that.
I know colleagues will agree that of all people, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has been incredibly effective in bringing through legislation in this area. She has introduced legislation to protect citizens, particularly women, and the offences that they are more exposed to than society in general. I know that she will also be committed to bringing this legislation through.
Coercive control has been an offence in Ireland since 1 January 2019. I am very proud that it was a Government led by a party that I am part of that brought about that legislative change. It is something that we as a society have had to come to terms with, because I am not sure that most Irish people understood what coercive control was or how pervasive and damaging it is. The point was made that obviously there is a defined victim in the case of coercive control, but what we frequently fail to recognise is that we are all victims at a different level and that society as a whole suffers when something like coercive control is allowed to go on, is not challenged and the perpetrators of coercive control are not brought to justice.
The example of Jennifer Poole has been brought up. I acknowledge the presence of her brother. I have two sisters and I cannot imagine what it must have been like for her family to go through what they went through. I agree with what my colleagues have said. The graphic nature of her case, which we also saw on the news, brought home to us just how appalling an offence this is and how much damage it can do to an individual, a family and to anyone around them. I welcome this Bill as well on that basis.
It is a great idea to refer to it as Jennie's law. We did have a provision earlier in this session where we passed Coco's law. It was not properly called Coco's law because I think the Department of Justice was kind of opposed to the notion of putting a name like that on it and so it is in the explanatory memorandum to the Act, rather than as part of the Act. It may have ultimately found its way into the definition. I do not think Jennie's law is mentioned in the Bill, but I would certainly support an amendment on Committee Stage whereby we would add it in to the citation section, section 10. It is appropriate to recognise where this legislation is coming from because it puts it in the context that we all need to understand.
In terms of the sex offenders register, it is also important for people to understand that there is not a big ledger somewhere where all the sex offenders are listed. What we are talking about here is not the idea that somebody's name goes in a book and it is put on a dusty shelf in Garda HQ or wherever it is, this is about putting obligations on people who have committed offences like this and then, by extension, making that information available to people who might potentially be future victims of those people. That is appropriate. It is also proportionate, which is very important as well because we know that in the context of much of the sex offenders register legislation, there were calls, for example, for these registers to be publicly available so everybody could look up and see if a paedophile, mar dhea, is living in their area or somebody has been convicted of a particular type of offence is living next door to them. That creates other knock-on problems in terms of vigilantism and all the rest. What is in this Bill is a very nuanced proposal that allows somebody in a particular circumstance to seek information that may be of assistance in saving their life. Let us be honest: that is really what it is about. It is not a small thing, but it is fair, proportionate and nuanced. It is not broad or wide, it is focused. I think that is what makes it acceptable, reasonable, and functional. I welcome that as well.
I am slightly confused by the provisions in section 7 because I thought it was section 39 of the Domestic Violence Act 2018 that defines coercive control. I wonder if it would have been easier to amend the Schedule of the Sex Offenders Act 2001 to include coercive control as a defined or scheduled sex offence. However, these are just drafting points, what is most important is that there is a recognition of the fact that we have seen coercive control cases in Ireland. I do not want to use the word "damaging" again, but they are so appalling because they attack a person in the place where they should be safest - in their relationship and in their home and they destroy that, as well as the other knock-on consequences that we know happened in the case of the death of Jennifer Poole. It is about identifying that it is already an offence, but it is also now about putting that extra safeguard in place for people who might be in a similar situation to someone like Jennifer Poole, who might now be able to get information that could save their lives.
I congratulate my colleagues, Senators O'Loughlin and Clifford-Lee, on bringing forward this Private Members' Bill. I hope it will continue through the Houses and become law as quickly as possible. I welcome the provisions on behalf of the Fine Gael group and I wish the Bill well on its way.
As ever, I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, to the House. On behalf of Sinn Féin I welcome today's Bill. I acknowledge the work of Jason and the Poole family, who have worked tirelessly to ensure that Jennifer's voice is heard in this Bill. As other speakers have referenced, the Bill is a reclaiming of Jennifer's legacy, one that will provide protection for all women in Ireland.
Women and wider society require a justice system that has the resources and funding in place to deliver fair and swift justice. That means moving beyond the long delays and waiting times that we see in the District Court for family law and domestic violence cases. In the round, these matters should be viewed alongside this Bill as part of tackling this issue. We also know there is a postcode lottery in place where the waiting times vary widely across the State. I urge the Minister to look at these issues in the round, to provide the justice system with the resources it needs to address coercive control so that this Bill, which is vital, alongside the resources I mentioned, will succeed.
I commend Senator O'Loughlin and her team. I give a heartfelt welcome to Jason Poole. I know everyone in this House agrees that there is a lack of sufficient refuge spaces. We all know that several counties are still without any refuge at all. We should take every opportunity to remind ourselves of that fact. Unfortunately, the shortage of such spaces disproportionately impacts victims of coercive control who have been isolated from friends and family with whom they would ordinarily seek refuge.
Sinn Féin welcomes the Bill. I commend the team who put it together with Senator O'Loughlin. It is a very good Bill to which we give our full support. I commend the proposals in the Bill.
I am pleased to have the opportunity to address the Seanad on behalf of the Minister, Deputy McEntee. She has asked me to thank Senators O'Loughlin and Clifford Lee for introducing this important Private Members' Bill, which is on Second Stage today. I also acknowledge the eloquent contributions made by all speakers. I am also pleased to have the opportunity to be here in my own right to listen to this very important piece of legislation. I acknowledge Jason Poole here this evening. It cannot be easy. I commend Jason on all the work he has done since Jennifer’s death. I believe, as a person of faith, that Jennifer would be extremely proud of Jason here tonight. I know she would be extremely proud of Senator Fiona O’Loughlin for all she has done to get this Bill to Second Stage.
This Bill seeks to amend the Sex Offenders Act 2001 to require those convicted of coercive control to notify information to An Garda Síochána, to provide for court orders and to oblige those convicted of coercive control to inform prospective employers of their conviction when applying for a position involving unsupervised access to children. The Bill also obliges the Minister for Justice to prepare and publish a report on a process that provides for the right of a victim of coercive control to seek and obtain information about a person who has been convicted of the offence of coercive control.
Earlier this week the Minister, Deputy McEntee, brought a memo to Government seeking approval not to oppose this Bill on Second Stage and I can confirm this was endorsed by the Cabinet. The Minister believes this Bill is well intentioned and aligns with the Government's zero tolerance approach to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. Coercive control is an appalling crime and a form of abuse which frequently has severe and lasting consequences. Victims of coercive control have often had incredibly difficult personal journeys. The Government is firmly committed to eradicating all forms of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence and to protecting, supporting and empowering survivors of these crimes.
However, legal advice received from the Office of the Attorney General raises concerns around the approach put forward in this Bill. Amending the Sex Offenders Act is not the appropriate way to tackle this issue. The provisions in the Sex Offenders Act have been specifically crafted to address the crime of sexual offending. Coercive control is not a sexual offence. Persons convicted of a sexual offence are required to notify An Garda Síochána of changes in their address and other movements under the Sex Offenders Act 2001. Our courts have ruled this is legally and constitutionally permissible because of evidence that sexual offenders present a significant risk to society due to their tendency to relapse. There is no similar justification for adding coercive control offenders to the notification requirements of the Sex Offenders Act as proposed under this Private Members Bill. Indeed there is a real risk that such provisions would be found unconstitutional.
Furthermore, the Office of the Attorney General has raised concerns in relation to the issue of proportionality. The Bill does not provide that persons convicted for other offences under the Domestic Violence Act 2018, such as breaches of barring orders or forced marriage, be subject to notification requirements under the Sex Offenders Act 2001. Nor does it require that persons convicted of offences under the Harassment, Harmful Communications and Related Offences Act 2020 be subject to such a reporting regime.
There are also concerns about proportionality in relation to the requirement in the PMB that the Minister publish a report on a process that provides for the right of victims of coercive control to seek and obtain information about the perpetrator. Such protections go beyond those afforded to victims under the Criminal Justice (Victims of Crime) Act 2017 and would need to be carefully examined.
While victims of coercive control may also be victims of physical abuse and sexual abuse, at its heart, coercive control is about just that: control, as in control over another person and the perverse sense of power this brings the perpetrator. People trapped in such relationships may feel unable to leave. Despite the abuse, they may feel they have no way out. Internationally, a number of evaluations have cited a lack of evidence that domestic violence disclosure schemes are effective in reducing the incidence of domestic and family violence or improving perpetrator accountability. In fact, law reform commissions in some Australian states have recommended against introducing this type of disclosure scheme because of a lack of evidence that they work and because of the very real concern that disclosure might result in increased risk for the person involved. Accordingly, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has instructed officials to develop policy proposals which will look at strengthening the role of An Garda Síochána in its mandate to protect, while taking into account international research in this area. The Minister’s intention is the development of a proactive policy which will empower members of An Garda Síochána to make assessments and to reach out to persons who are at serious risk in intimate relationships. The practical and legal considerations of such an approach are currently under review and consultations with An Garda Síochána are ongoing. Policy proposals are expected in the next weeks and will reflect comparative research and the considerations I have outlined.
This is one element in ongoing work by the Minister for Justice to strengthen protections for vulnerable victims. As the Senators will be aware, important legislative provisions in relation to stalking and harassment came into force just last month. For the first time in Irish law, we now have a stand-alone offence of stalking. This offence covers any conduct that puts someone in fear of violence or causes serious alarm and distress such as to have an adverse effect on the person's day to-day life. The conduct in question is illustrated by a wide list of possible behaviours, such as following, spying upon, communicating with or about, and impersonating. This list is not exhaustive.
The Minister has also significantly widened the existing harassment offence, which covers harassment behaviours that are broader than stalking. It is committed where the perpetrator's persistent conduct seriously interferes with another's peace and privacy or causes alarm, distress or harm. The same open list of possible behaviours applies to this as it does to stalking. Furthermore, a new system of civil orders restraining stalking behaviours is being introduced. These are vital additions to the law which will allow earlier intervention and do not require a criminal prosecution, which often prevents people from coming forward. Procedural protections will apply to the civil order procedure. These include that evidence may be given by video link, that proceedings will take place in private, and that limitations are placed on cross examination by the respondent in person. Breach of the civil order is, of course, in itself a criminal offence. It may also form part of the basis for other prosecutions.
This is all part of a much broader body of work the Minister for Justice is undertaking to combat domestic, sexual and gender-based violence and to keep our communities, especially women and girls, safe. Only two weeks ago, legislation creating a statutory agency dedicated to tackling and reducing domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, DSGBV, and supporting victims and survivors passed successfully through these Houses. The new DSGBV agency, Cuan, will bring the dedicated and expert focus that is needed to tackle these serious and complex societal problems. It will be responsible for planning, co-ordinating and monitoring the development of refuge accommodation and providing support, including financial assistance, for the delivery of services to victims and persons at risk of DSGBV. Cuan will also be responsible for developing standards, monitoring compliance and co-ordinating the delivery of relevant Government strategies and plans. It will oversee delivery of public campaigns to raise awareness of DSGBV and reduce its prevalence. It will conduct ongoing research to support the development of future policies and programmes. The new chief executive, who I understand is currently at the final stages of recruitment, will be responsible to the Minister for the performance of the agency. In carrying out its work, Cuan will be mandated to engage and consult appropriately with the DSGBV sector and other stakeholders.
Establishment of the agency is a key commitment of the third national strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence - zero tolerance strategy, which the Minister, Deputy McEntee, published last June. This is an ambitious five-year programme of reform to achieve a society which does not accept domestic, sexual and gender-based violence or the attitudes which underpin it. The €363 million strategy is built on four pillars: protection, prevention, prosecution and policy co-ordination. The Government is making great strides in implementing the accompanying 144 detailed actions to ensure everything that is promised in the plan is delivered according to the clear timelines set.
The commitments set out in our zero tolerance strategy have been backed by funding commitments. Under budget 2024, a record additional €12 million, or 25%, increase in funding for combating DSGBV, was secured. This follows an additional €9 million secured under last year's budget. This additional funding will support the implementation of the zero tolerance plan, including funding the new agency to meet the acute needs for services throughout the country.
Cuan will have a core budget of €43 million next year which will increase nationwide coverage, and will boost the momentum in implementing the strategy's ambitious goals.
In addition, the Minister for Justice is bringing the Criminal Justice (Sexual Offences and Human Trafficking) Bill through the Houses. This Bill contains important reforms to implement the recommendations of the O'Malley review of protections for vulnerable witnesses in the investigation and prosecution of sexual offences. The legislation will strengthen the rights of victims of sexual offences, ensure anonymity for victims in all trials for sexual offences and extend victims' rights to separate legal representation.
Through Supporting a Victim's Journey, the plan to implement the recommendations of the O'Malley review, the Government has put in place important reforms to support and protect vulnerable victims in sexual offence cases and to ensure our criminal justice system is more victim-centred. The introduction of preliminary trial hearings has helped to increase efficiency in how trials are run which will reduce delays and ease the process for victims. Work has also commenced to develop training for all personnel who come into contact with vulnerable victims. In addition, the University of Limerick has been commissioned to develop a framework for the operation and training of intermediaries.
In order to promote more sustainable service delivery and planning, the Department of Justice is also offering multi-annual funding commitments to key NGOs that are working in this area. These grants cover accompaniment to court, to Garda interviews and to sexual assault treatment units as well as emotional support and counselling.
The nationwide roll-out of divisional protective service units ensures that vulnerable victims are dealt with by gardaí who have specialist expertise. Officers assigned to these units receive bespoke training on engaging with vulnerable victims, including modules on sexual crime investigation; domestic abuse intervention and investigation; victim engagement; sex offender management; and online child exploitation.
I reiterate this Government's commitment to addressing coercive control, and DSGBV more broadly. We are determined to hold perpetrators accountable and to empower survivors of these horrendous crimes. A holistic approach is needed to tackle these deeply-rooted issues. The measures I have outlined show this Government's commitment to doing so.
I acknowledge the commitment and intention of Senators O'Loughlin and Chambers in bringing forward this Bill. I note the support it has received from this House. The objectives of the Bill are clearly reflective of Government policy principles and efforts ongoing to strengthen protections for victims of DSGBV. However, as I have outlined, the advice from the Attorney General makes clear that it is not legally permissible to apply a regime designed specifically for convicted sex offenders to persons convicted of coercive control.
The Minister, Deputy McEntee, is working on policy proposals to address this issue that align with the broader intention of this Private Members' Bill. She will bring these proposals forward once consultations with the relevant stakeholders are concluded.
I would like to mention some guests in the Gallery who have just left: Elizabeth Watson, who is a Fianna Fáil local election candidate in the south-east inner city, and her guests.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I thank our Fianna Fáil colleagues, Senators O'Loughlin and Clifford-Lee, for introducing this important Bill, which the Labour Party supports. Notwithstanding what the Minister of State has said about the concerns she has raised and their implications for the provisions of this Bill, we hope they can be thrashed out and worked through in a very appropriate manner because this Bill, which has been introduced by Senator O'Loughlin tonight, is a very good one and could very much be a life-saving initiative.
We were all struck recently by the works and the comments through documentaries and recent interviews with The Irish Times of the former State pathologist, Professor Marie Cassidy. As has been described here tonight, violence against women is an epidemic which is made all the more sinister by the fact that the overwhelming majority of women know the perpetrator of that violence. Many of them, as has been said by all contributors, are in intimate relationships, as commented upon by the former State pathologist time and again recently.
According to data from Women's Aid, some 87% of women violently killed in Ireland since 1996 knew their killer, and over half of them were killed by a current or former partner. That is a very important fact for us all to reflect upon. As the Minister of State said, we just cannot reflect upon it; we must act upon it.
We discussed the Domestic, Sexual and Gender-Based Violence Agency Bill in the House a couple of weeks ago. I will be brief today because there are obviously overlaps, as outlined by the Minister of State, and I do not want to repeat myself. I was happy to support that Bill. I sincerely hope the new agency it establishes will make a meaningful impact in addressing violence against women in Ireland. I also spoke in that debate about the need for a greater number of women's refuges. I always acknowledge the great work of Teach Tearmainn in my own area in Kildare. I also spoke about the need to properly resource and fund existing supports. We also spoke about the need to sort out the way our legal system deals with cases of domestic violence.
What I am getting at is that the epidemic of domestic violence is not something we can just legislate away. As the Minister of State has said, it will take a confluence of different practical measures. Yes, legislation will be very important but, ultimately it will be the preventative resources which will very much tackle the issues before the fact. The registry provided for in this Bill has the potential to be one of those preventative resources.
There is international precedent for this sort of domestic violence disclosure scheme. Such schemes operate in some form or another in the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand and have been shown to work to safeguard potential victims. We only need to look to the North to see the operation of the UK domestic violence and abuse disclosure scheme, which has already been mentioned. It has been operational in Northern Ireland since 2018. Data on this scheme and on others is understandably sparse, given the sensitive nature of the information that is being provided. We know that in its first year, over 300 applications were made and 40 people were identified and advised that they were at risk. Those 40 people could have become victims of domestic abuse or, worse still, could have been killed. The disclosure scheme allowed that possibility to be mitigated. As a result, there are 40 people here now who might not be here if that scheme was not in place. Jennifer Poole, who has been mentioned here tonight, was murdered at the hands of a partner with a previous conviction for domestic violence. Given the impetus for this Bill, would she still be with us if there had been a mechanism in place for her to get that information?
Like I said, we need a confluence of new measures as well as proper resourcing for existing measures. I believe this Bill provides for a very valuable protective mechanism for potential victims of domestic violence. It is not an exaggeration to say that it could save lives. It is very much a worthwhile endeavour on that basis.
I want to finish by commending Jason Poole - Jennifer's brother, who is in our Distinguished Visitors Gallery - for his advocacy on this matter. It is always particularly admirable to me and to the Labour Party when those who have experienced an horrific tragedy, like Jason did, use their pain to make things better and safer for others. It is the height of compassion. I know that Jason is very much grieving for the loss of his sister. I agree that should this law be passed, it should be named Jennie's law. I am sure he is still grieving. I thank him for reaching out to Senators O'Loughlin and Clifford-Lee to bring forward such a worthwhile Bill here tonight.
Senator O'Loughlin has five minutes.
I thank the Acting Chairperson and I also thank her for seconding the Bill. I thank all of the speakers tonight, including the Acting Chairperson and Senators Ward, Warfield and Wall, for their support for this Bill. It means a great deal to me, to Jason, to Jason's family and to all of the women out there who could be protected and saved if this legislation becomes law. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, for being here and for her empathy in such a sensitive, delicate and awful situation where we are trying to use the experience of Jason and his family to try to make life a little better.
I appreciate the ongoing good work of the Minister, Deputy McEntee, to support victims of domestic violence and ensure there are more refuges and supports for victims. I appreciate that there are certain sections of this Bill which could and should be amended. As we know when any Bill starts out, there is every opportunity to make it a better Bill and to make it more robust. I would certainly welcome any such amendments.
The point Senator Ward made about section 8 is something I had noticed too. When we come to Committee Stage, my first amendment will be to have three subsections in section 8, and to change one slightly. In fact, I sent that to the Bills Office. When it came back, it was the original version. It was my fault as I did not notice that it did not have the change in it.
I absolutely accept that. It would be the first amendment I would make on Committee Stage.
I appreciate that when the Government produces legislation for us to debate, there is a massive team of people behind it. There are so many researchers, drafters and people with huge experience. Bringing forward a Private Members' Bill, I would obviously not expect to have access to that same level or depth of knowledge. However, I was very lucky to have the support of Deputy Jim O'Callaghan and Councillor Deirdre Heney. I absolutely look forward to amendments from the Government and, indeed, all parties in the context of making this legislation more robust. I welcome that input because I believe this Bill has a place on the Statute Book.
The Minister mentioned that there has not been positive feedback regarding this in Australia. However, there has been very positive feedback in New South Wales and in Alberta in Canada. It is important that we look at all of the areas that have gone through this process before and that we may be able to learn from them.
The last thing I will say is that Jason Poole approached many of us. It did not matter what party we represent. I know he has had several meetings with the Minister, Deputy McEntee, in terms of progressing some sort of legislation. I am not precious as to whether it is this legislation or whether the Government brings forward different legislation. What I am concerned about is the timing and trying to ensure that we have legislation on our Statute Book that supports the establishment of a domestic violence register. When we launched this Bill last June, Jason said some words that stuck with me. I will read them into the record because Jason cannot do so. These will be my final words on the matter. Jason stated:
Everyone should have the right to know if their partner has a violent past and is hiding it from them. My sister Jennifer didn’t have that. She didn’t know her ex-partner had already been in prison for a similar offence.
He would have been already on that Register if it had existed at the time.
The Register would give the Gardaí a tool to be able to inform somebody, when asked, if their partner has a violent history. The simple fact is that the Register could have prevented Jennifer’s murder and perhaps of many more women.
I rest my case.
Question put and agreed to.
When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?
Next Tuesday.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 12 December 2023.
When is it proposed to sit again?
Tomorrow at 9.30 a.m.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ar 8 p.m. go dtí 9.30 a.m., Déardaoin, an 7 Nollaig 2023.
The Seanad adjourned at 8 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 7 December 2023.