I welcome the Minister of State to the House.
Local Government (Mayor of Limerick) and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2023: Second Stage
Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
I am delighted to be here today to bring the Local Government (Mayor of Limerick) and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2023 before the House. The main aim of this Bill is to establish a new office of directly elected mayor for Limerick City and County Council and to provide for the public to directly elect a person to that office.
The Bill provides that most but not all executive functions currently performed by the chief executive of Limerick City and County Council will transfer to the mayor. Some functions, in terms of what was put to the people at plebiscite, are retained with the CEO. There will be new functions for the office of mayor and structural changes for governance of the area of Limerick City and County Council are provided for.
The Bill delivers a programme for Government commitment and the democratic will of the people of Limerick to have Ireland's first directly-elected mayor. It provides the mandate, structures and means to deliver on the ambition of the office of mayor of Limerick. It provides a key opportunity to develop service delivery and accountability locally, and to add value for Limerick people. The Government has decided that the first election of a mayor of Limerick will take place with the local and European elections in early June. This is one of the biggest local government reforms since the foundation of the State. In addition, the Bill will allow for plebiscites to be held by other local authorities on the question of whether an office of directly elected mayor should be established in their administrative area.
I will go through the main provisions of the Bill. It is divided into eight Parts, with three Schedules.
Part 1 contains standard provisions covering Title, citation, commencement, definitions, etc. Section 5 provides for the Local Government Act 2001 to be applied to Limerick in line with modifications in Schedule 3. Section 7 provides for a review of the operation of the Act after three years so that any necessary or desirable legislative enhancements can be made.
Part 2 is the substantive Part of the Bill. It provides for the establishment of the office of the directly elected mayor, with the date to be set by ministerial order. The mayor will be elected by the public and will hold full-time office for a five-year term in line with the local electoral cycle. A mayor may hold office for two terms. The mayor will be executive head of the local authority, with responsibility for most executive functions currently performed by the chief executive. These include matters of housing, planning, environmental services, climate and enterprise at a policy level. The mayor will also take on the representational and civic functions of the cathaoirleach outside of the council chamber.
A new priomh chomhairleoir will chair the council. The functions to remain with him or her are set out in Schedule 1 of Part 1. In mentioning the CEO, I should have referred to the director general. Functions to remain with the director general, formerly the chief executive, are set out in Schedule 1 of Part 2. These include HR and staffing matters, Accounting Officer responsibilities, administration of schemes and grants, and enforcement measures. This was set out in the plebiscite to the people, specifically, that these particular functions would be retained by the director general. This is what the people voted on.
This Part also provides that the mayor shall be an ex-officio member of the council with voting rights. The mayor may be questioned by the council in relation to the performance of his or her functions. The mayor may attend municipal district meetings, although he or she cannot vote, and will also chair the corporate policy group.
This Part further sets out eligibility to run and hold office and procedures for when the mayor is not in office. During the Bill's passage through the Dáil, I introduced amendments so that Members of Dáil Éireann, Seanad Éireann and the European Parliament may run as a candidate in mayoral elections, subject to the candidate ceasing such membership if elected mayor.
Importantly, the Bill provides for a budget to support the mayor’s functions, in particular his or her mayoral programme. It provides for a mayoral salary that is equivalent to that of a Minister of State and for the office’s staffing arrangements, including the appointment of a special adviser.
Following discussions in the Dáil, I have ensured that the mayor will be consulted in the appointment of these staff. The special adviser will be external. The mayor may wish to appoint someone internally. The other four staff will come from within the local authority.
Part 3 provides that there will no longer be the positions of cathaoirleach and leas-chathaoirleach in Limerick. There will instead be new offices of príomh chomhairleoir and leas-phríomh chomhairleoir. The príomh chomhairleoir and leas-phríomh chomhairleoir will continue to be elected by the council. The roles of chief executive and deputy chief executive will be replaced by director general and deputy director general, with the main purpose of the director general role being to support the mayor. The mayor may delegate functions to the director general, who is accountable to the mayor in performing those functions.
Part 4 establishes new structures centrally and in Limerick to support the role of mayor. These structures include the establishment of a Limerick mayoral and Government consultative forum at ministerial level to facilitate engagement between the mayor and national government in relation to Limerick. It will be chaired by the Minister and meet at least twice a year. There are options for when it can meet. It will make recommendations on the evolution of the role, including new and additional functions, and funding for the assignment to the mayor and also review and advise on how the new structure is operating. The forum can meet at additional times during the year at the request of the Government or mayor. There will be the preparation of a mayoral programme for local government in Limerick, setting out key priorities for the mayor's term.
The mayor will establish a Limerick mayoral advisory and implementation committee to prepare and implement the mayoral programme. The committee will also examine major issues affecting Limerick City and County Council, including economic, tourism, social and cultural matters, employment, co-ordinating initiatives, services and funding to support rural areas and town regeneration. The mayor will launch and chair the Limerick Project Ireland 2040 delivery board to focus on the implementation of the national planning framework and national development plan in the Limerick area, the county development plan and the Limerick-Shannon metropolitan area strategic plan. The board may establish subgroups as required. The Bill establishes a defined subgroup, namely, the Limerick delivery transport subgroup, again chaired by the mayor, which will focus on transport in Limerick in line with key strategies. The mayor can set up other groups, but the Bill defines that there must be a specific subgroup on transport.
Government Departments must consult the mayor, on request, on national policy or legislation that may impact Limerick. The mayor will have statutory powers to bring all stakeholders together and statutory rights in regard to consulting the Government. These are key changes. Furthermore, the mayor will be a member of the local community development committee and an ex-officio member of the Southern Regional Assembly.
Part 5 makes legislative amendments to allow for mayoral elections and plebiscites. It also sets expenditure limits for the Limerick mayoral election and provides for the reimbursement of election expenses and disclosure of donations and election expenses.
Part 6 provides that a local authority may hold a plebiscite on the question of having a directly elected mayor with executive functions for a single administrative area. A plebiscite may be proposed in three ways: by a council-approved recommendation from the corporate policy group; by a petition signed by more than 15% of the electorate and certified by the chief executive; or by ministerial direction. On Report Stage in the Dáil, I reduced the percentage of the electorate required from 20% to 15%. Where a plebiscite result is in favour of a mayoral election, the Minister must make legislative proposals to the Oireachtas within two years to give effect to that result. An Coimisiún Toghcháin will publish and distribute information on the plebiscite proposal to the electorate, incorporating material which the Minister shall provide.
Part 7 provides for removal of the mayor on certain grounds. The removal of a democratically elected individual is a serious consideration and so this is a robust and fair three-tier process. This came after intensive work with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Government and the Office of the Attorney General. In summary, the council may adopt a proposal to remove the mayor on stated grounds. A public meeting of the council will be held, with support from at least three quarters of councillors required for a motion to pass. Where a motion passes, the Minister may establish an independent panel to make a recommendation on the removal. Finally, if the Minister accepts the recommendation, a resolution to remove the mayor must be made by both Houses of the Oireachtas before it can take effect.
Part 8 contains minor miscellaneous provisions which do not relate to mayoral matters and were introduced in the Bill on Report Stage in the Dáil. These provisions extend eligibility for an affordable dwelling purchase arrangement and provide for consultation with the Public Appointments Service, PAS, in setting out the required qualifications for certain posts in the local government sector. I intend to bring forward a number of further miscellaneous but important amendments on Committee Stage in this House relating to funding of the Housing Finance Agency and the Land Development Agency.
Schedule 1 sets out the provisions which will not transfer to the mayor. Part 1 lists the functions of the current cathaoirleach that will remain with the príomh chomhairleoir in Limerick. Part 2 lists functions currently performed by local authority chief executives that will remain with the director general of Limerick, in line with the general scheme. I intend to bring forward a small number of minor additions on Committee Stage to complete this schedule. I may also bring forward some amendments on the substantive areas of the Bill.
Schedule 2 provides the electoral code for holding an election for the position of mayor of Limerick. It covers matters such as the appointment of a returning officer; the manner of voting; the nomination process; arrangements for the poll; and arrangements for the counting of the votes.
Schedule 3 provides for modifications to how the Local Government Act 2001 is to be read in relation to the revised structures in Limerick.
I look forward to working with colleagues in this House in the coming weeks to pass this Bill and pave the way for the mayoral election in Limerick. Limerick City and County Council will be unique compared with other local authorities. The mayor will be a champion for Limerick city and county, have a place-making role for the county and region and serve as a blueprint for greater local democracy in Ireland. The Bill is something new and a reforming measure for local government. More particularly, it is something for which the people of Limerick voted by way of plebiscite. I commend it to the House.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House to start our debate on what is a fundamental change in local government, namely, this Bill. The people of Limerick were brave in the decision they made in 2019 in going along with the proposal put to the people in a plebiscite. As the Minister of State knows, at the time the people of Waterford and Cork were also given the opportunity to vote and the proposal was narrowly defeated in those areas. Perhaps that matter can be revisited at a later point. The fact that we are now legislating for this new office, for which an election will be held in June this year, provides us with a tremendous opportunity to try to shape and mould an office that could become a framework for many other areas.
I compliment the Minister of State on the work he has put in to the Bill. He had to do a considerable amount of work to bring it forward to this stage, in line with the programme for Government commitment to hold the election in June 2024. We also had extensive pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill. It is probably a testament to the Minister of State and his officials that the Bill largely reflects what the people voted on. Many, if not all, of its provisions mirror what the people voted for. That is a great credit to everybody who has worked on the Bill.
It is important that the elected council retains its primacy despite this new elected office, and that the new mayor is accountable to the elected council in the same way as the Minister of State is accountable to the Houses of the Oireachtas and the people elected to Dáil and Seanad Éireann. Likewise, the new director general should have a relationship with the mayor similar to the relationship the Minister of State has with the Secretary General of the Department. That structure will work well. Obviously, there will be teething problems and many things may have to be ironed out along the way. I am certain that, with the right people involved in this process, we will have a very effective office that the people of Limerick city and county can be exceptionally proud of in time.
I compliment the Minister of State. I know it is the start of the process in the Seanad and my colleague, Senator Malcolm Byrne, will want to speak later. To wrap up, will the Minister of State clarify the piece in the miscellaneous provision around the fresh start? Is it specifically that we are just making it more general that if someone had a home in the past, regardless of whether they went through an insolvency, divorce or a separation, that they are now able to avail of the fresh start once they no longer have a stake in that home? It was the case that all of those other categories were included in the fresh start. Will the Minister of State comment on that because I note that and it would be a very welcome change to be able to bring those people who no longer have a stake in a property back into the net through the fresh start approach, either through the local authority affordable purchase scheme or through the first home scheme.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House. We are talking about Limerick which is his own political bailiwick. I do not know if he has ambitions to run himself but he will clearly not tell us today.
It could make the news.
It will be a great role.
It will all depend on the fall-out from other elections, of course. I support the principle of a directly elected mayor. I support the fact that Limerick had a plebiscite. Plebiscites are to be protected either way. Other plebiscites rejected this and the Minister of State must accept that as democratic. We know about Dublin but I do not propose to talk about Dublin here today. Be mindful and respectful, as a Minister of State, of the decision of the people of Dublin city and county who made their position known. The Minister of State cannot have it both ways. In Limerick they took a decision to have a directly elected mayor. Fair play to them and I wish them well. The Minister of State has not been in this particular office for that long and he must face up to the reality that local government is totally underfunded and underresourced. Councillors do full-time work on part-time pay. In the Minister of State's words from various word searches I carried out of his contributions the Dáil, the chief executives are not accountable to anybody and reform needs to happen. This is going back and there has been a lot of reform since the Minister of State said that so I want to face up to the reality.
We must address local government funding. We are still waiting for reform of the local property tax. Maybe we should call it a council tax now that all local authorities hold their own. We do not have the equalisation system in place anymore and local authorities who cannot generate their own funding are not as disadvantaged anymore according to the Minister of State, his officials, and his various press releases and circulars. I welcome that also. However if we are to have real powers and local democracy we must have funding and the rights of local authorities to do it.
I had a Commencement matter debate yesterday about the funding, being administered by the Department with responsibility for rural affairs, for cohesion of new communities coming to Ireland. When I went through the list there was a multi-use games area, MUGA, which was allocated €1,500, playgrounds and community centres. All of these are very important but why is a central Government Department talking about €1,500? Why do we have Ministers going around the country cutting ribbons at every crossroads and sewerage treatment plant that is being opened? These are works that are being co-funded by local authorities. We must get out of this mentality of hogging all of that space in local government and allow councillors to get out there and do their jobs.
I actually support the role of chief executives. It is a function that has worked but I think we need to reform the role of chief executives and shift some of the powers away from them. We need to rebalance the functions and powers of councillors versus chief executives, but together and collegially. It is the best model and has served us well. The Minister of State will be aware, as I am because I have seen correspondence from the County and City Management Association, CCMA, about their views on directly elected mayors.
I will go back to Limerick for a second. I looked at the amendments the Minister of State could not accept this morning. One or two were of concern to me. One is the issue with regard to section 9(5) which states that the mayor will serve on a full-time basis. They were amendments the Minister of State was aware of, which parties including Independents put down amendments to that the Minister of State rejected or the Government could not accept. I believe, to use the Minister of State's words, if a mayor is put in place and on a very, very good salary and has an infrastructure, staff and facilities, he or she should be full time. I am not talking about caring for a sick member of their family but I do not believe they should have the right to go and do another job. It is not right and it is not functional. There are many TDs here who will not even be paid as much but at least they are full time or should be full time. A vote was taken on this. There was a very good debate and arguments and a very interesting vote result: Tá, 49 and Níl, 72. I want to be constructive and I am asking the Minister of State to reconsider that. We must have strong ethics and control. We know from the planning and other tribunals of inquiry that it is important that politics is beyond all of that and that we have integrity and infuse confidence in the people who elect us to do they job we are elected to do. This is an elected office on full pay so I believe we need to tighten the legislation. I know there are ethics in place but I do not believe that someone can be out in the morning putting up bricks and in the afternoon presiding as the mayor of Limerick City and County Council. I do not think it is right. That is before the candidate has even been determined.
I ask the Minister of State to keep the focus on that. It is important. This is something people who will be canvassing these mayoral elections will want to know - where is the money and the list of functions. The Minister of State needs to demonstrate this. The Minister of State has not significantly spelled out the devolved powers and functions he is giving this mayor or the relationship between that mayor and the chief executive. It is all hi-de-ho and great to say that we have a model. We are not Barcelona, Paris, Madrid or New York so let us face up to it. The real key issue relates to how the Minister of State will fund Limerick and the revenue-raising powers it will have. Greater clarity will also be needed because we see it in Dublin. The mayor has certain rights to devolve the functions he or she has back to the chief executive. On one hand we are asking the people in Limerick to go out and elect a mayor for Limerick. The legislation provides that in certain circumstances the elected mayor - who has been elected because he or she is meant to be independent of mind and in terms of process rather than independent politically - can devolve these powers. It goes back to the problems the Minister of State has highlighted year in year out about shifting some of the powers away from chief executives. We need to be clear on that. We have an opportunity to look at that and to amend that legislation. I would like greater clarity, not necessarily today but between now and Committee Stage, possibly next Tuesday, when amendments for this legislation will be debated.
It will be next week or the week after.
I ask that we do not guillotine this debate. I do not envisage it will take long. I know the Minister of State of long standing and I know his absolute commitment to local government. I know members of the Association of Irish Local Government, AILG, in particular speak very highly of the Minister of State and have found him to be very constructive in his work. However today, the Government is guillotining legislation related to the joint policing committees. What a shame and what a sham that we cannot have Committee and Remaining Stages next week. The Minister of State is talking about giving more powers back to local government, local councillors and the mayor. We have a lot of work to do but I welcome that the Minister of State is here. I acknowledge he is progressive when it comes to local government and he knows this brief well. He is vastly experienced in it and he is liked by the elected members which always helps. I suggest the Minister of State facilitates and works constructively with us on amendments and that we will not have the usual situation where Ministers pop in and out of here, read typed scripts and saying they have considered what Senators have said two seconds previously and cannot agree. I believe and hope the Minister of State will commit to engaging with Senators here in the Chamber and before that.
Maybe we can touch base with the Minister of State's officials and iron out some of the thoughts around the proposed amendments. I thank the Minister of State.
I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House and I know that he has a strong personal interest in this issue.
I am concerned that we are only five months away from the election of this office, yet we are only debating the legislation now. I appreciate that is not the fault of the Minister of State but a number of us have asked to deal with this legislation earlier because the creation of this office is quite a radical shift in local government and we should be ambitious. While I get the point that Senator Boyhan made about an elected mayor, and we are not necessarily thinking about New York, London, Paris or Barcelona, I have no doubt as to Limerick's ambition. I also have no doubt that an officeholder could look to drive and build that office in a particular way as a voice for Limerick.
I agree with Senator Boyhan that the role should be full time. It needs to be properly resourced and staffed if it is to have any real impact. That is important both to the officeholder but more important to the people of the city and county of Limerick. The people of Limerick will be busy as they will have to deal with four ballot papers in June but this has the potential to be one of the most significant ballots.
I agree with colleagues that we do not have local government in Ireland; we have local administration. We have local councils that have limited functions and powers. They are underfunded and we can have a debate on local taxation but the powers are very limited. The real question about this legislation is: when we elect a mayor what can he or she do? What will be the real differences as a result of this legislation? I am rather disappointed in the legislation as it lacks ambition. As Senator Boyhan outlined, the big criticism concerns the powers that the chief executive used to have. The chief executive has too many powers. We are now bringing in a directly-elected mayor so we think that surely the powers will be transferred. Section 10(2)states: " All functions (other than functions conferred by or under an enactment specified in Part 2 of Schedule 1) that, immediately before the vesting day, vested in the chief executive of Limerick City and County Council shall, on and after that day, vest in the Mayor." So suddenly one thinks a lot of powers will be transferred to the directly-elected mayor but then we turn to Part 2 of Schedule 1 where we see all the functions that remain with the chief executive. We start on one page of enactments but then there are two pages and all the way up to seven and a half of pages of powers remaining with the chief executive.
What is actually left with the new directly-elected mayor? In terms of the lord mayor's functions, there will be a consultative forum. We are all very in favour of consultative forums as they will do a lot of consulting. The mayor can draw up a mayoral programme so there will be a manifesto for five years. There will be a mayoral advisory implementation committee to implement and advise on the mayoral programme. There will be a Limerick Project Ireland development board and a transport subgroup that will look at the national development plan, which again is decided by central government and not by a local or regional government, and looking at how that is going to be implemented in the mid-west. There is also a requirement on the Government to consult with the mayor, so there has to be engagement.
I am looking at what is proposed and it rather reminds me of the office of the President. The President has certain functions. He can consult and chair Council of State meetings. He has done a lot of ceremonial role as, indeed, the mayor of Limerick will have. There will probably be some debate about whether the mayor strays outside his or her remit from time to time. However, I am concerned at the lack of ambition in the number of powers that are given to the mayor in the legislation. While Senator Boyhan picked on some of the bigger cities, we should look at the cities with which Limerick is twinned. Limerick city is twined with Quimper in Brittany in France and Spokane in Washington in the United States. In the French system the mayor has a lot more power with regard to policing, public safety and public health. Mayors propose and oversee the budget. They have powers with regard to the environment and built heritage. They can undertake a number of unilateral administrative acts but, at the same time, they are accountable to the elected council, which is correct. In the US, local government is not as powerful but, again, it is the Mayor of Spokane who proposes the budget and appoints the director of services.
The mayor will propose the budget in Limerick.
The mayor will propose the budget. Again, the question is the levels of control over funding. It is all very well being able to propose a budget but what about when one has very limited control? I accept that this feeds into the bigger debate that Senator Boyhan has raised around local taxation and revenue raising, services, etc. We need to examine some of the powers and specifically what powers we can give. I am just thinking about the citizens whom the Minister of State will know too well in Limerick city and county who, when they look at the mayor, will wonder will he or she will have an impact when it comes to health, education, transport, urban planning, heritage and the environment. There are areas that mayors have responsibility for in similar sized locations, and even in bigger and smaller locations around the world.
The creation of a mayor of Limerick is a radical innovation for local government but we need to be more ambitious. It is important that whomever is the first officeholder, he or she,will set some of the agenda in that regard but we cannot tie his or her hands.
The creation of the office can also contribute to more balanced regional development. There is real potential with this office but we must give it a real chance. The person appointed mayor needs to be full time, properly resourced and we need to ensure that their powers are spelled out.
When the Minister of State comes back to this House, and it is like if one were advertising a job description, he should spell out very clearly the powers and controls of the new mayor for Limerick City and County Council. Everyone expects in their job that they will have to consult, engage and do reports but the real issue here is around mayoral powers so that anyone who is considering applying for the job or, more importantly, when citizens contact the mayor's office, they know what he or she can do.
Comhghairdeas, a Aire Stáit. This Bill is really good and represents real progress for local democracy. I congratulate the Minister of State and Senator Maria Byrne on getting us this far.
This Bill excites me as it is a chance for real local democracy and regional balance, and I have long witnessed regional imbalance coming from County Clare. I also think that this new office of mayor is a lot more than being a mayor of a city or county, potentially, and another gold medal around another person's neck, and usually that is a man's neck.
This Bill has huge potential to provide proper regional balance in the mid-west, which is a perfect geographical region to balance out Dublin. We were all reared to believe that all roads lead to Dublin for everything. The new mayoral role is an important stepping stone towards what local government should be. If we want to reverse rural decline and better manage regional development, we need to give more powers and autonomy to local councils, which, of course, starts with funding. In Ireland, only 8% of public spending is done by local government, yet every county councillor and local authority staff member is meant to be able to sort everything out immediately. The creation of a mayor is an opportunity to restore people's faith in local government and local authorities because people have lost some of that faith because, as Senator Byrne said, it is mainly administrative work that takes place at local government level. A mayor would be chosen by the people for the people whereas CEOs, great and all as some of them are although that varies a lot, are not answerable or accessible to anybody. The situation reminds me of "The Wizard of Oz" who was a guy with a big voice sat behind the big radio but he is kind of untouchable and does not really exist in any form that represents the people of the county.
The Bill is a huge opportunity for us to get things right and I hope we can work on some amendments to make it even better. The office of mayor is the norm across Europe. The role works across Europe because mayors have proper powers and proper funding, and an ability to do things.
I think the directly elected person being of high stature and having, as the Minister of State said, powers such as a Minister of State has is what regions need. For too long, it has just been up here inside the gates of Leinster House. It is all about lived experience. People in Dublin do not have the lived experience of trying to get a train from where you live in western Ireland. Limerick city is not badly serviced and it has a great new train station, but there is a significant opportunity here.
We can lead the way for other counties to have mayors. It is democratically done. We need to help local government to reinstate the faith that people had in it because everything is being polarised, even the council versus the people. Part of that is the lack of funding. That will change with the mayor. We want a train to Shannon Airport and a lot of money invested properly in the west, as we see a population increase. It cannot all land in Dublin. We want people to live and thrive in rural areas too. This opportunity with the mayor is significant. I have to admit that Limerick seems to have nailed hurling. I think this is an opportunity to nail what it means to have a directly elected mayor for the rest of our country. I thank the Minister of State for his work on this.
I will not speak for long on Second Stage. I will indicate some of the issues that we may raise on Committee and Report Stages. First, concerns have been raised about the date of the election, which is happening at the same time as the local and European elections. That might mean that the Limerick mayor debate is not given the necessary attention that it should get. One consideration could be putting it back, even to September, so they can properly consider the candidates for mayor. The introduction of directly elected mayors will hopefully be transformative for local government because we will see local government become stronger, given it will have a very strong figurehead.
One of the big issues for local government in Ireland is the lack of funding. We are so dependent on central government for absolutely everything. Local government and local government managers have to go with the begging bowl to the various Departments to get funded. It is key in legislation like this that, in consultation with Limerick City Council, local mayors have the ability to borrow funds elsewhere, whether on the bond market or elsewhere, and can decide that without having to go through central government. We talk about the powers that are extended to them. We have a planning Bill coming through and there is no reform of the compulsory purchase order system in the planning Bill. This could be an opportunity to have recommendations for things being compulsorily purchased be added in as a built heritage function to mayors and to have some reform of compulsory purchase orders in the Bill.
I want to address some other issues. Some miscellaneous provisions were inserted in the Dáil, particularly relating to the fresh start principle when it comes to availing of home loans. I ask that the Minister of State, who will table Committee Stage amendments, consider putting in miscellaneous provisions to enable people to transfer local authority applications for housing. That is particularly important in cities. For example, somebody in receipt of housing assistance payment may be living in the South Dublin County Council area but be on Dublin City Council's waiting list. There are also situations where people might be living in social housing but want to relocate to a rural area because of the opportunities afforded by the introduction of rural broadband, cheaper house prices and the lower cost of living.
What is key and what I often come across is people who are living privately and have a stake in the family home, but are suffering from domestic violence and maybe want to relocate county to get away from their abuser, or people who are living in local authority housing who want to be able to still live in local authority housing but, again, want to move county to get away from their abuser. That lack of ability to move between local authority areas often comes up. Some provisions have been included in the miscellaneous provisions in this Bill. I ask that, on Committee Stage, the Minister of State would consider putting in miscellaneous provisions something along the lines of the fresh start principle but for local authority housing and being able to transfer between local authorities.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I also welcome that this legislation is before us. I applaud the decision of the people of Limerick in 2019 to vote to have a directly elected mayor. It is auspicious. It is surprising that Limerick is the first place in Ireland to introduce the new system, given the independent, progressive, politically innovative spirit of the city that was seen in the past with, for example, the Limerick Soviet of 1919 trying to do something quite different. It is very welcome and necessary, because what we have seen and know is that there has been a strong loss of confidence in local decision-making.
We have seen a roll-back in people's connection to that crucial thing that is part of being a state, which is that they have a say and a voice in the decisions we make about how we live together. When I talk about politics to anybody, whether children or people in industry, I talk about how politics is the decisions we make about how we want to live together. One of the first examples that people should have of that is that their vote and voice at local level helps to decide how we live together in our towns and cities. It is crucial, yet we have seen that it has been increasingly undemocratic for a long time. We have seen a slide towards Executive decision-making that is quite distant from that sense of the public having a voice, a say and shaping a common vision together. The model we currently have does little to foster community empowerment or strengthen local democracy.
I have concerns about some aspects of the Bill. I will table amendments on Committee Stage to try to ensure that this legislation delivers for the people of Limerick a mayor who really has the necessary powers and tools to deliver a city that reflects them and their collective vision. At the moment, Ireland is failing. It was a poor decision to abolish town councils back in the day. In so much of the legislation that has come through these Houses, we have seen one, two or three little clauses in the middle of Bills where yet another small power, point of voice or point where the councillors would have a say is removed. The fact that we have seen so many people quitting local government is worrying and reflects the frustration that those who put themselves forward in that public spirit, wanting to serve their communities, find when they come up against that wall where none of the decisions and powers seem to sit with them.
It is not just our opinion; it is also the opinion internationally. Last October, the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe unanimously adopted a report that found Ireland to be compliant in only eight out of the 20 core principles in the European Charter of Local Self-Government. That is less than a failing grade. It is less than 50% of the core principles that we should achieve. It is an indictment that we are only compliant with eight out of 20. Some of the findings of that report are important in the context of this discussion. The report found that Irish local authorities had limited democratic decision-making powers. It highlighted the imbalance in power between elected councillors and chief executives in local authorities and the consequent democratic deficit. An issue that others have spoken about and highlighted, which is the lack of financial autonomy, was also identified as a key obstacle to effective local self-government. The report highlighted that local authorities in Ireland do not manage a substantial share of public affairs under their own responsibility. It concluded that Ireland is far from compliant with that principle of subsidiarity, which requires that decisions should be taken at the closest point possible to the citizen.
The reason I am highlighting these points is that our approach needs to be comprehensive. We have a lack of ambition in strengthening and transforming local government and giving it the powers and resources, as well as powers to access resources, to deliver sustainable communities. I want to highlight one area where I think local government will be crucial, which is sustainable cities.
The sustainable development goals, particularly goal 11 on sustainable cities and communities, requires under target 11.3 that the signatories enhance inclusive and sustainable urbanisation and the capacity for participatory, integrated and sustainable human settlement planning and management in all countries by 2030. Of course, Ireland is not just a signatory but is the chair of the negotiations on the sustainable development goals. We have seen how when local authorities in cities across the world have been empowered, very often they have led the way. I recall going to the climate talks at the point when the US had briefly pulled out of the Paris Agreement. The fact that we are still in was the movement of cities across the US, which still attended Conference of the Parties, COP, were able to talk about what they would do in terms of advancing sustainability and had the powers to do so. That was a really important example of the leadership that properly empowered cities and towns can have.
I am concerned that in this legislation, we are seeing some of the same mistakes being made that have been made in the past. They have led to disempowered local government and, more worryingly, a disaffected public, something that is bad for politics and society. The outsize role of the director general is one area. The director general does seem to be the chief executive by another name. He or she will still hold the vast majority of decision-making power. We heard about the many items in the seven-and-a-half-page Schedule. It is not clear to me what the mechanism for moving items out of that Schedule is. Perhaps as the role expands, we should have a very clear and simple mechanism that does not require primary legislation that would allow for areas currently within the Schedule to move into the power and compass of the mayor. Even if that is an incremental piece, that is something that would not require new primary legislation where we go back and say, "We failed on Limerick. We will try again on Cork" or wherever it might be. We do not want to be in that position. Regarding the huge reserve of power, it is not simply that somebody would come out and apologises to the public for the thing it wanted to happen not happening with a director sitting behind the scenes who actually gets to make the decision about whether it happens.
The restriction on the mayor hiring his or her own staff is regressive and a constraint because people are advancing their careers within a particular spectrum and there is a danger of the permanent Civil Service being the actual thing rather than persons who can actually deliver within what will be a necessarily limited timeframe of the mayoral period. I am concerned about the powers concerning housing, development and planning still remaining with the unelected official. I am also concerned about the mayor's proposed membership of the elected council and his or her ability to move motions and votes. I ask the Minister of State to outline the rationale for this. In jurisdictions with a directly elected chief executive, it is customary for the chief executive to be required to attend meetings of the council and have the right to attend and speak. Could the Minister of State clarify that? I have lots of examples but I will skip them. The council should be a power to hold the mayor accountable and set policy. We should be enhancing the role of councillors in a complementary to that of the mayor.
Will the Government transfer powers or competencies from central government to the Limerick local authority, including revenue-raising powers and responsibility for delivering public services? The Minister of State will be aware that the debate on re-municipalisation of waste services is a very current one. I thank him. We have the opportunity to take a real leap forward and I hope this will be seized and there will not be yet another misstep in local democracy.
I send apologies on behalf of Senator Gavan, who cannot be here, but I know he will be here with our amendments next week or the week after that. This is a hugely important matter for the people of Limerick. This could have been a Bill that offered meaningful reform of local government and local government in Limerick with real powers and real influence but it does not. What is offered is a ceremonial position and a ceremonial mayor. I cannot imagine any other local authority in our State aspiring to this reform.
In response to Sinn Féin, the Taoiseach said: "There is, quite frankly, some bureaucratic resistance from certain Departments - not mine - when it comes to the delegation and devolution of functions". This is the Government and Departments have Ministers. I wonder who is in control. If the Government really believed in local government and devolution, it would make sure that the necessary powers were devolved. Instead the opportunity for a seismic shift from our overly centralised government, which is one of the most centralised governments in Europe, has been squandered.
There has even been a lethargic attitude and approach on the part of the Government, which has meant that this Bill moved at such a glacial pace. The people of Limerick voted for this Bill back in May 2019. At least it is finally here and Sinn Féin welcomes that fact but I remind the House that the people of Limerick voted for this in May 2019. What was sold to the people of Limerick at that time is not reflective of what is in this Bill.
My colleague and comrade, Senator Gavan, will bring forward a number of amendments next week or the week after on behalf of Sinn Féin but if we want other areas and local authorities to move towards directly elected mayors, the devolved powers have to be specified in this Bill. Right now, the Bill falls short of real change in local government. It is a much-diluted version of what the people hoped for in empowering local government in Limerick. I do not know any other local authority that would want or strive for the current proposal. Regrettably, Senator Gavan cannot be here but he will be here to present Sinn Féin's case and our amendments. Luimneach abú.
I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to discuss this all-important issue today. It is an issue that is very close to my heart. I was director of elections for the Government when the plebiscite was passed so in that respect, I have a very keen interest in making sure we deliver a directly elected mayor for Limerick. I thank the Minister of State and the officials for bringing forward the legislation. I also pay tribute to the former Ministers of State, Deputies Peter Burke and John Paul Phelan. When the plebiscite was put, Deputy Phelan was in office and I know Deputy Peter Burke was involved in bringing forward the legislation before the current Minister of State took over.
Having served as mayor of Limerick, I am very aware of how people look to the mayor as a leader. I envisage that this mayor will be a leader not just for Limerick city and county but for the region because I believe the mayor must be a driver for the region. One or two Members mentioned economic development and a counterbalance to Dublin. Limerick is the capital of the region because it is right in the centre of the mid-west region and there has been so much economic development and job creation. We have three third-level institutions on our doorstep and this has helped in driving the region.
I believe the mayor should have extra powers. I know that powers will be devolved. What was in the plebiscite is more or less included in the Bill but I would like to see extra powers being devolved as time goes on. Mayors across Europe and other regions - New Zealand is a very good example - have powers relating to the environment, arts and sports. They can all be brought into the mayoral programme. That is not envisaged in this Bill but they should be included because the mayor brings forward his or her mayoral programme, has to bring councillors on board with him or her and work hand in hand to get the funding, some of which is from the CEO and his or her staff.
I would like to see more money being given to the mayor as time goes on. I know there is a certain amount of money available but to implement the full programme, the mayor should be able to access funding. Perhaps the Minister of State will be able to answer that.
Regarding plebiscites in other electoral areas, when will these areas be able to vote in a plebiscite to see if they wish to have a directly elected mayor? It is important that we get this right. It is good that we are here making a start to the programme.
The directly elected mayor brings forward a proposal. It has to be as important for the city as it is for the county because it is for the region. It is really helpful that the mayor can appoint a special adviser. When the review takes place I would love it to allow the mayor to bring two advisers on board. One adviser may not have the same powers or thought processes as the senior person. As the role evolves, I believe the mayor will become a major player in the region. The office has to be given resources and support for it to work. If other electoral areas see this working in Limerick and the region, I think they will be anxious to have it.
I thank everybody for the work to date. I know it is a work in progress. I am looking forward to working with the Minister of State and the team on the delivery of a directly elected mayor for Limerick.
As I am following Senator Byrne and the Minister of State, both of whom are from the city where this will be implemented, I make my comments with that in mind. The concept of directly elected mayors is an excellent one. It is the way forward for local government. My vision for local government would be to see a directly elected mayor for every local authority, for example, Louth, Donegal and Meath county councils. My vision for Dublin would be to put the four local authorities aside and have a directly elected mayor for all of Dublin because the concept of a mayor and a mayoral office is universally recognised. The reason I think that would be a good thing is that chief executives and executives of councils, whether we like it or not, can do whatever they wish. They are not accountable to the Oireachtas. Nobody is asking chief executives why the housing list is always so long, why there have not been any transfers in the county for X amount of time or why the collection of rates has been notoriously poor in that local authority.
I was a councillor for six years, and many others in the Chamber were also councillors. In the legislation, the executive is officially beholden to the councillors. However, if one is a councillor it is very difficult to try to hold an executive together when it holds all the power to get things across the line for a councillor. It is very difficult to do that in the first place. This concept of having a directly elected mayor means we will elect someone for a five-year term on a manifesto and a platform of delivery that the person will have to deliver, as otherwise he or she will not be re-elected. That would speed up a huge number of projects and development because someone will be working to a definite timeline, one on which his or her political career is based, whereas a public servant is in place for as long as he or she wishes. In the case of the chief executive, it is seven years and a further seven years if the individual is reappointed.
When it comes to staff, the directly elected mayor should be backed up by somebody, a programme manager for example, or a person in the mayoral office. The Minister of State knows from his job, and I know it has been said previously about Ministers, that Civil Service staff may have their own defined agendas and views about things. They may be happy to run the clock down on a mayor and not initiate a project knowing that they could be gone in two years. We may not like it but that happens in some cases in Departments. Having a mayor personally hire staff increases the probability that some of the issues, policies and things the mayor want to get done get across the line.
Senator Moynihan raised an issue on housing and I have come across it before. It is deeply unfair that if someone on housing list for X number of years decides to move from Louth to Meath or Monaghan, or vice versa, or to one of the four local authorities in Dublin, he or she goes back to the start of the list.
I will raise another issue that is inherently unfair and I am interested in finding out if this is the case in other local authorities. It is something the Department should take the lead on. I will use Louth as an example. If I am on the housing list in County Louth for five years, every once in a while the council will do a review to see if I am still at the same address and still interested in being on the housing list. How does it do this? It sends a letter to the person and if he or she does not reply, his or her name will be wiped from the housing list within a period of time. On occasions, through appeals, I have been able to get people back on the housing list because I can prove or show whatever evidence. On other occasions, I have not been able to do so. It is the most awful thing in the world that somebody should lose time on a housing list for not replying to a letter, which it cannot be proven was delivered. A local authority cannot prove that a letter got to its definitive destination. It is the worst thing in the world that someone can lose all of this time they have been waiting on a housing list to get a home because he or she did not reply to one letter. I am interested in seeing a standard way of dealing with this across all local authorities. I wonder if other local authorities deal with this matter differently. If people are removed from a housing list after five years, for example, perhaps they would get three years back, or something like that. It should be something cohesive across all local authorities. That is an issue I am concerned about.
I love the concept of directly elected mayors. It is class. It is a really good idea and the future for local government in this country. I would have a directly elected mayor in every single local authority on this island. That is the way we should go. It works very well in some UK cities, while in others it does not. I accept that and we know what cities we are talking about. The concept of a directly appointed mayor, who then appoints councillors to cabinet positions to run major cities like Manchester and other cities - Liverpool is not a good example given what happened there - is really good. I would love to see that here. The people of this country should be able to directly elect mayors in local authorities to plan out the vision for local authorities. It should not be down to unelected chief executives to decide what way a county goes over a five- or six-year period.
I thank Senators for their frank and open contributions. Obviously they have detailed knowledge of working with local authority members. In the time I have I will go through the points they raised.
Senator McGahon made reference to the fresh start principle. That will apply not only to people in insolvency arrangements, but also to people who have been divorced or separated. It provides a fresh start and is a very good measure.
Senator Boyhan raised a number of points. I will start with the principle and go back to basics. The basics are that the people of Limerick voted for a plebiscite that was put to them. Senator Byrne was director of elections at the time and I commend her on her work. When I was appointed to this position, I went back to the core of the source documents, namely, what was put to the people. The proposal was that certain functions would remain with the director general and others would transfer to the directly elected mayor. The areas that remain with the mayor are around staff. One of those issues was to provide certainty for the couple of hundred additional staff working in Limerick City and County Council.
A number of other areas would remain with the director general, including administration of schemes, grants and loans. I mentioned staffing. The director general would remain the Accounting Officer, similar to a Secretary General of a Department. The role would be in that area and in terms of housing. I have been absolutely true to that. I did not in any way want to affect the current role of the councillors in the chamber. They are unaffected. A príomh chomhairleoir and leas-phríomh chomhairleoir - mayor and deputy mayor - will replace the cathaoirleach and leas-chathaoirleach.
The mayor brings the budget to the chamber, not to the current CEO or the DG. That is a seismic shift. The mayor is responsible for bringing that budget to the chamber. The reserved function on the annual budget is still retained with the councillors, of whom the mayor will be one. There are 40 councillors in Limerick. They will be 40 plus one; 41. The physical bringing of the budget will entirely be the preserve of the mayor, not the DG. That is a seismic shift. You have an overall budget of more than half a billion. That is seismic.
Second, the mayor can delegate. The current legislation is true to what the people voted on, but there is a three year review. I go back to Senator Byrne's point about evolution of powers. I have looked at a multitude of directly elected mayors. Many of them have not worked. Liverpool is going away from a directly elected mayor, as is Bristol. I am conscious of that. I am also conscious of the fact that 48% of the public voted against a directly elected mayor in Limerick, so we have to bring people with us. The structures are strong, and that is of great importance. It is a full-time position. Many Members of the Oireachtas are not full-time Oireachtas Members. We want to ensure we get the best people running, but ultimately the role is full time.
In terms of staffing, the mayor will appoint a special adviser externally, or internally if he or she wishes. There may be some good people in the local authority. I know in my role that there are enormous skill sets within the local authority. However, the mayor will be involved in the appointment of the four staff within his or her office, the same as a Minister of State, like me, is. I think that is hugely important. Once again, there will be a review mechanism and I hope we will see the evolution of the role with that. It is hugely important that this gets off on a firm footing. Senator Malcolm Byrne made reference to the seven pages. Effectively, there is a myriad of legislation that arises over time. The number of pages should not be looked at, because one page can have far more content than five, six, seven or eight pages. It is down to the core legislation they are implementing. That is hugely important.
I return to the point about the evolution of the role. The mayor will have a budget that he or she will get from the central Exchequer of approximately €8 million per year. The mayor can roll out his or her mayoral programme; it is his or her programme. That was not discussed here today. The council continues to have the reserve function over putting through the budget but it is brought by the mayor. That is hugely important. Second, the mayoral programme will be put to the people when candidates go out to canvass. The mayor must be able to implement that programme. The mayor will bring it to a consultative forum, to which her or she can bring all stakeholders, on a statutory basis, for any matter. That is completely new. The mayor will have a statutory engagement with national government, which is completely new. It is not a question of asking; it is a defined legal right in this Bill. That is hugely important. The chamber itself remains as normal. The mayor will roll out his or her programme with that €8 million per year, or thereabouts. He or she must also consult with the chamber. The chamber cannot have a veto because ultimately, the people have decided and voted. That is the democratic wish of the people. Certainly, any mayor who wants it to work will have to get the involvement and support of the members of the chamber. Those are the laws of politics. It is hugely important that it can be brought through.
There are the devolved functions by the mayor back to the chief.
The legislation defines what powers are retained by the CEO. Every other power goes to the mayor. In Limerick we have DACs, which are development companies set up through the local authority. They currently report to the CEO. They will now report to the mayor. That is something I specifically got included in the legislation, because I wanted to ensure the mayor has that role. If the mayor wishes, he or she can devolve some powers to the CEO, but the CEO is completely answerable to the mayor in that particular delegated power. If the CEO is delegated a particular function, he or she is answerable to the mayor. It is that basic. The CEO is carrying out the physical aspect of the function but ultimately, the CEO reports to the mayor on that function. That is hugely important. I am also conscious that this must work.
Senator Moynihan brought up reform of the CPO system. When I came into the role, the Law Reform Commission was looking at reform of the CPOs. That will be needed in time. What I found when I looked at it, is that the current CPO system works. At the end of the day, we will be waiting a period of time for that. She made reference to the passporting system and that is being currently looked at by our Department.
Senator Garvey spoke about balanced regional development. I absolutely agree and I go back to Senator Byrne's point that the mayor must champion Limerick City and County Council, but also the region. That is why I insisted on the mayor being on the Southern Regional Assembly. That is why I insisted on having a specific board for transportation. I wanted the mayor to have that devolution. There is nothing stopping the mayor from using his or her €8 million to work with An Garda Síochána for policing of particular events. That is something I believe can be pushed.
Senator Higgins made reference to financial autonomy. I hope that when there is a review of it after three years, we can look at that particular area. It was not put to the people in the context of delegated powers in the plebiscite. However, it should not be lost sight of that the mayor brings the budget in its entirety to the chamber, not the CEO. The Senator made reference to sustainable cities. I absolutely agree. Local authorities are now doing their own climate action plans. There is also the role between the DG and the chief executive. It is simple - the mayor is answerable to both the chamber and to the people who elected them. In terms of policy around housing, the mayor brings that. The mayor brings development plans to the chamber, not to the CEO. A lot of the measures the DG retains are operational. I see it in terms of staff. That is hugely important. It is the same for the administration of grants. The mayor is very much around policy and driving it at a high level.
I do not agree with Senator Warfield that it is a ceremonial role. It is a seismic shift. The structures are there. It is something I want to be certain works. He also spoke about dilution. It is exactly what was put to the people in the plebiscite and I ask him to read it. Every single aspect of that is in the legislation. I ticked them off. At the end of the day we are all democrats here.
Senator Maria Byrne made reference to the extra powers. That is fully about the review. She made reference to the plebiscite. Under Part 6 of the Bill, each local authority can have its own plebiscite. Under certain areas, the corporate policy group could bring it forward. It may also be a petition signed by 15% of the electorate, from the chief executive, or at the Minister's direction. That is in black and white in the legislation. Senator McGahon was pushing on the area of the directly elected mayor and the benefits it has. I have covered the plebiscite, the powers and I will put it another way in summary.
We effectively have a two-pillar system with a CEO and a chamber. We will now have a three-pillar system. We will have a mayor directly elected by the people getting their own budget from central funding with their own staff and special adviser, taking on all the powers of the current CEO, apart from what was put in the plebiscite. Those that will remain with the director general are mainly administrative. All policy comes through the mayor. The mayor brings the annual budgets and development plans to the chamber, whereas currently the CEO does that.
It will be every ten years though.
There is a review.
Yes, but it is every ten years.
I look forward to debating-----
It is a long time. Two terms of the council will be gone by the time the next one comes.
There is a review after five years.
I know there is a review.
I have no doubt we will have that debate during the planning-----
Every ten years.
I very much look forward to working with the Senators on Committee, Report and Final Stages. As I mentioned, I propose to bring Government amendments to the Bill to make small tweaks to the director general functions and miscellaneous provisions relating to financing of the Housing Finance Agency and the Land Development Agency which are Government priorities. There may be some other amendments relating to the Bill itself.
I look forward to working collaboratively with Members. My intention would be not to guillotine the Bill.
And to accept some of the amendments.
I will always consider amendments.
We know what the record was from the Dáil.
Pardon?
The record from the Dáil was not good in terms of amendments.
I accepted amendments on Committee and Report-----
I know the Minister of State did.
Everyone has the same aspirations here. I go back to the fundamental principles; the people of Limerick voted for his. Ultimately, I am responsible to them. They voted on a particular plebiscite. That is in the Bill. There is a review mechanism within three years and we can expand the role. I see this as the start of a process, with many things happening and originating in Limerick. I hope it will become a national platform.
I thank the officials for their work.
Well done.
What about the implementation advisory group?
It was remiss of me. I again compliment Tim O'Connor who was chair of the IAG. It did phenomenal work, much of which is reflected in the Bill, including on the príomh comhairleoir and the leas príomh comhairleoir. I also compliment the executive in Limerick City and County Council and, in particular, the elected councillors for their engagement on this. This is something radical. In the Irish context it is new. We want to make certain we get it right. We are all democrats. The people of Limerick voted for this and the Bill presented today is true to their wishes.
Question put and agreed to.
When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?
Next Tuesday.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 30 January 2024.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 2.14 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 3.03 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 2.14 p.m. and resumed at 3.03 p.m.