Before we conclude, would the Minister of State like to say a few words? I ask him to be as brief as he can.
Protection of Private Residencies (Against Targeted Picketing) Bill 2021: Committee Stage
SECTION 1
Amendments Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, not moved.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2
Amendments Nos. 6 to 8, inclusive, not moved.
Section 2 agreed to.
Sections 3 to 5, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
I will outline a few points in relation to the Bill. The Minister will, obviously, be looking for this legislation to be referred to the Joint Committee on Justice.
Yes. That is okay.
I thank Senators Malcolm Byrne and Fiona O'Loughlin for bringing this legislation before the House and for highlighting the growing issue of targeted protests outside the homes of politicians and public figures. I completely condemn these protests. They were targeted and personalised in nature and have had an impact not just on the persons involved but their respective families and neighbours.
The Bill will make it an offence for a person who “organises or engages in ... a protest within 200 metres ... of a residential dwelling”. Anyone found guilty of a summary offence under the proposed legislation shall, upon conviction, be subject to a class D fine of up to €1,000. A person guilty of a second or subsequent offence shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both.
While people have the right to protest, and of course that right must be respected, people do not have the right to do this in a way that causes others to fear for their safety or in a way that threatens public order. Public representatives across the political spectrum, and not just in Ireland, are facing increasing levels of personal intrusion and abuse. It is a danger to democracy if public representatives feel their safety is at risk because of the job that they do.
In considering the introduction of new laws, it is important also to reflect on the laws that currently exist. A range of existing offences may apply to protests outside the homes of individuals. The Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 provides for an offence of disorderly conduct in a public place in section 5; an offence of threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour in a public place in section 6; an offence of distributing or displaying in a public place material which is threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene in section 7; an offence of failing to comply with direction from a member of An Garda Síochána in section 8; an offence of wilful obstruction in section 9; an offence of entering a building or the curtilage thereof as a trespasser with intent to commit an offence or for the purpose of trespass in section 11; an offence of trespass on any building or the curtilage thereof and for a Garda power to direct a person to desist from trespass and to leave in a peaceable manner in section 13; an offence of riot in section 14; and an offence of violent disorder in section 15.
Section 23A of the 1994 Act provides for a Garda power to issue a fixed-charge notice on a person where the Garda has reasonable grounds for believing the person is committing, or has committed, an offence of disorderly conduct under section 5. Section 24 provides for a power to arrest without warrant a person committing one of a list of offences under the 1994 Act, including those specified in sections 6, 7 and 8 as described above. The Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 provides for an offence of making a threat, "by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out", to kill or cause serious harm to a person in section 5; an offence of coercion in section 9;and an offence of harassment in section 10. There is also a common law offence of breach of the peace that includes behaviour that threatens harm to a person and-or to their property once the person is present. Members of An Garda Síochána have the power of arrest for breach of the peace under common law.
The Bill before the Seanad seeks to address an issue that affects all public representatives and other individuals who have been, or may be, subjected to alarming and intimidating protests at or near their homes. Such behaviour has direct consequences for the safe participation in public life and the protection of the democratic institutions of the State. The Minister for Justice wants this issue to be properly considered and the introduction of new laws fully assessed. Given the wide cross-section of persons affected and the complexity and importance of balancing the fundamental right to protest with the necessary protection of the democratic process, the Minister will write to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice to ask that it do further detailed consideration of the Bill. This would provide the space to consider submissions from key stakeholders, debate the constitutional implications and fully discuss and explore other practical issues and consequences that may arise as a result of the proposals, including any unintended consequences.
This is basically what the Minister has asked me to convey as her message to the Seanad. She does wish this matter to be dealt with and that this Bill be referred back to the Joint Committee on Justice in due course once it has gone through the process in this House.
I thank the Minister of State for that contribution. While it is somewhat unprecedented, several Senators wish to contribute as well. I call Senator Higgins and I ask her to be very brief.
I will be very brief. Unfortunately, I was held up in the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs and did not get to move my amendments. It is fine, though, because I think it is clear there is going to be additional scrutiny in the Joint Committee on Justice and an opportunity to tease out the issues there. I wish to signal, however, that I think these issues are not simply to do with balancing the question of the right to protest with other aspects. There are also concerns regarding who and what is included in the legislation.
I refer to the fact that the reference to a permanent building means some of the most vulnerable people will not be included. I am thinking. in particular. of Travellers, who experienced intimidation in their residences throughout the State for decades, and, indeed, the most vulnerable people we see now, namely, migrants and refugees in tented accommodation, who are actually excluded from protections under this Bill. Clarity is needed around the issue of the protections for the occupants of a building versus the residents because these may not be the same. The core point here, and this is one of the other issues I hope will be addressed in the joint committee, is that if people are protesting an illegal eviction, for example, the owners of buildings would not simply be able to say the law applied only to them; what matters here are the occupants. Focusing clearly, therefore, on the occupants, or the believed occupants, of buildings is important.
There is also a danger, and I am sure it is inadvertent, that canvassing could be outlawed.
I ask the Senator to address the matter at hand. I am not going back to Second Stage speeches. I just gave the Senator the opportunity to say a few words.
These are issues I hope the Joint Committee on Justice will be able to engage with. I do not think that any of us wants to see canvassing outlawed and this might have been one of the unintended consequences in relation to approaching a residence with the intention of influencing a person. Canvassing is probably one of the greatest protections we have, indeed, against the kind of misinformation and hate we have seen driving many of these totally inappropriate protests.
I thank Senator Higgins. I call Senator Carrigy.
I thank the Acting Chair for allowing me to speak. I support this legislation brought forward by Senator Malcolm Byrne. I have been through the judicial system because of threats on social media. I have also had people at my family home while I was putting my children to bed, and these were people from a political party represented in these Houses. We want to keep people in public life. We want people to be able to put themselves forward for public life. We want to know our family homes will be protected while we are away. I fully support, therefore, whatever we can do to strengthen such protections.
All political parties and groupings in the Houses need to sign up to a charter to state their members will desist from targeting the family homes of other people in public life. This is important.
I thank the Minister of State for taking the Bill and for allowing it to go forward. I am quite happy for further scrutiny. I am certainly happy for all of the issues in the legislation to be teased out. This is part of the reason I brought it forward in 2021. I appreciate that the Minister of State is acting on behalf of the Minister for Justice. When we went through Second Stage the Minister raised a lot of similar concerns and made a number of the same points but we have continued to see a number of these incidents of intimidation and harassment. I tabled this legislation when much of what we were dealing with related to Covid. This has moved on and it is often the same people engaging in these intimidatory practices which are now related to immigration.
The right to protest is very important and we need to protect it and balance the safeguards. On Second Stage, the Minister indicated she was happy for further consultation and for the Bill to go to the justice committee. I spoke to the Cathaoirleach of the justice committee who was perfectly happy to engage on this issue. I am concerned that very little has happened. The legislation the Minister of State outlined does not seem strong enough and it does not seem to be enforced. The Minister of State is aware of the recent remarks of the Taoiseach who said he was looking for an answer on this. Is the existing legislation strong enough or do we need, as the Bill provides for, a stand-alone offence?
I would be quite happy if we knew the existing legislation was strong enough but I do not believe that to be the case. The evidence is the fact that these protests are continuing and those carrying them out seem to think they are above the law. This issue is particularly serious. It does not only impact on politicians. We have seen it impact on medical professionals and journalists. I know from speaking to the Cathaoirleach of the justice committee that he and the other committee members are perfectly happy to deal with and engage on the issue. I ask that, as of today, we move as quickly as possible to Final Stage in the House, preferably next week or very shortly thereafter, and that the Bill be sent to the justice committee before the summer. I would appreciate if the Minister of State conveyed that request to the Minister.
Bill reported without amendment.
When is it proposed to take Report Stage?
Next Tuesday.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Report Stage ordered for Tuesday, 28 May 2024.
When is it proposed to sit again?
At 1 p.m. next Tuesday.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ar 12.03 p.m. go dtí 1 p.m., Dé Máirt, an 28 Bealtaine 2024.
The Seanad adjourned at 12.03 p.m. until 1 p.m. on Tuesday, 28 May 2024.