Apologies have been received from Deputies Seán Barrett and Frank Fahey. The purpose of the meeting is to consider the OPW Revised Estimates and the 2010 annual output statement. The Dáil referred the 2010 Revised Estimates for public services to the select committee for its consideration. I welcome the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works and his officials. A draft timetable for the meeting has been circulated to members. Is it agreed? Agreed. I call the Minister to make an opening statement.
2010 Annual Output Statement — Office of Public Works
I am pleased to introduce the 2010 Revised Estimate and Annual Output Statement for the Office of Public Works. In line with the changing economic and financial circumstances, the gross allocation for the office will see a 7% decrease in 2010 on the 2009 outturn. However, if one compares it to the initial gross allocation of two years ago — I refer to the Revised Estimates volume — it is down 35%. The Office of Public Works, which is part of the Department of Finance family, has made a very substantial contribution to necessary savings in Government expenditure during the current crisis. Being attached to both the Department of Finance and the OPW, I am proud of that but it does not detract from the ongoing importance of the work of the office.
The reduced allocation for the office reflects the overall Government priorities in leading the country and managing the economy through the present difficult times. The challenge now for all Departments and offices is to focus on their primary roles and ensure they can provide the optimum service to the public for the resources employed. The OPW is making its full contribution to necessary reductions in Government expenditure while maintaining the core services.
The core services of the OPW are diverse in nature, including a wide variety of management, architectural and heritage services on an extensive property portfolio. Only last week, the Taoiseach opened the fourth Global Botanic Gardens Congress at the National Botanic Gardens which has been redeveloped and rejuvenated by OPW staff in preparation for the world renowned congress.
The gross allocation for Vote 10 amounts to €439.4 million in 2010. However, this amount does not fully reflect the extensive range of activities of the office. As well as expenditure on Vote 10, the OPW acts as an agent and incurs expenditure on behalf of many Departments and agencies. Funding for this expenditure is provided to the OPW by the sponsoring Department or agency and appears as a charge on the account of the client organisation. The cost of providing these services in 2009 was more than €117 million, the main areas of expenditure being major capital works, maintenance works and leasing of accommodation.
The OPW's project management services also provide specialist procurement and technical advice to the Government and various Departments on major projects, such as the Aviva Stadium in Lansdowne Road and the National Conference Centre, both of which open for business this year. These do not appear as expenditure items on the Vote, but the OPW provides a valuable contribution to the overall process. I welcome the opportunity to demonstrate to the committee, through the annual output statement, the value for money and premium service provided by the OPW. The OPW is first and foremost a service organisation and its customers are the public, Departments and offices and the Government.
Committee members have a copy of the OPW annual output statement for 2010 and a summary brief on the functions within subheads and allocations on the OPW Vote this year. The first programme in the output statement is flood risk management. Unlike the other programmes on Vote 10, where the OPW facilitates the implementation of client policy, my office also has the ultimate task of demonstrating the outcomes on flood risk management, namely, the positive impact of measures taken on homes and businesses. A total budget of €71 million has been provided on Vote 10, subheads G, H1, H2 and H3 this year. The primary functions of this programme are to advise the Government on flood risk management and flood risk management policy, develop detailed programmes and measures to implement the recommendations of the report of the flood policy review group, deliver on flood risk management work programmes and projects and maintain an effective programme of maintenance of river courses drained under the provisions of the arterial drainage Acts. The committee will agree this is a critical area for investment, given the hardship suffered in recent times from flooding events. In this year's budget, the Minister for Finance committed the necessary additional resources to addressing the problems.
A budget of €50 million is provided for the flood relief capital works programme in 2010. The first phase of flood relief schemes will be completed this year at Mallow north, Clonmel west, Ennis upper, the River Dodder, Fermoy north and Waterford, and the flood relief scheme at Mornington will be continued. This year will see major flood relief projects commence at Mallow, south and west, Clonmel north and east, Ennis lower, Carlow and Templemore. Detailed design and contractor procurement is ongoing for new schemes at Bray, Fermoy south east and south west, and Arklow. We are also beginning to scope for a new scheme in Bandon for the coming years. The minor relief works scheme, introduced in July 2009, of which three tranches have been announced, beginning last November, has helped us to tackle — working with local authorities — immediate smaller scale improvement and protection schemes arising out of recent flood events. All the evidence is that defence works make a very substantial difference in the event of flooding, although they do not provide absolute protection.
On completion of flood relief schemes undertaken under the powers of the Arterial Drainage Act, the OPW assumes responsibility for the maintenance of these schemes and already maintains river courses drained under these Acts. A current budget of €16.821 million is provided in subhead H3 for the maintenance programme, of which over €10 million funds a direct labour force.
The second programme in the output statement is culture and built heritage, with a budget of €83.767 million this year. This allocation will allow for improvement works at cultural institutions, the payment of certain grants, and the management of heritage services. Improvement works at the National Gallery and the Irish Museum of Modern Art, and at Collins Barracks on behalf of the National Museum of Ireland will take place in 2010. EXPO 2010 is under way in Shanghai, China, until October. Under the direction of the nominated Commissioner General, the Office of Public Works was requested to design and manage the construction of the Ireland pavilion. The pavilion, which hosted Ireland's national day last week, expects to welcome 3 million visitors through its doors, providing them with a window on Ireland's rich culture and, hopefully, fostering tourism and business contacts that will be of great and lasting benefit to this country. I heard on the news this morning that Tayto had won some contracts in Shanghai.
The OPW administers certain grant payments on behalf of the Government and 2010 will see grants made to Dublin Zoo and Glasnevin Cemetery under the culture programme. The heritage programme, which is funded under subheads I and F1 on the OPW Vote, conserves and maintains in excess of 700 heritage sites. The investment allows the service to deliver a premium visitor experience, while educating visitors on the significant historic aspects of national heritage sites. This year, the service will cater for over 2.5 million visitors, providing much needed added value to the tourism sector nationwide. At the historic sites, a continuing programme of planned maintenance, adopting best architectural and conservation principles, will protect site fabric from deterioration and damage. The OPW will manage and prioritise a works programme, partly in conjunction with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, but also with bodies such as Fáilte Ireland. This year, works are ongoing at the Botanic Gardens, Phoenix Park, Battle of the Boyne site, Doneraile Park and Castletown, to mention but a few.
The next programme on the output statement is the national procurement service, NPS. The NPS was established in 2009 to drive a programme of reform in the area of procurement, aiming to provide a comprehensive shared service to Departments and other public bodies. It is the aim of the NPS in 2010 to ensure a strategic targeted approach is taken with regard to procurement of goods and services. To this end, a number of strategies are in place, for example, the collation of up to date data on spend in the public sector, and from it to identify the markets most suitable for intervention and the establishment of a complete network of public service procurement officials in order to facilitate collaboration and aggregation of demand between Departments and agencies. The NPS recognises the need for education of buyers and suppliers and to this end is developing a service that will give them access to practical advice and guidance on issues relating to procurement. It has also engaged with suppliers, representative groups, trade associations and sectoral groupings to identify appropriate learning needs, establish a new NPS website that will serve as a single point of information on procurement issues, and produce manuals and publications to help guide the work of procurement staff. In 2010, the NPS will put major contracts in place for electricity, natural gas, liquid fuels, LPG, office machinery, stationery and computer consumables to supply Government Departments. The NPS has recently established an expert advisory group, as envisaged by the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes, known as the McCarthy report, and the first meeting of this group took place in OPW headquarters in Trim last Monday, which I attended. The credentials of the members represent best practice and insight into public procurement, which will be of immense benefit to the ongoing strategic work of the NPS. This group will assist the NPS in putting in place credible targets and strategies, all of which are necessary to achieve more significant efficiencies in public procurement.
The fourth programme on the statement is Government sites and buildings, which includes Garda accommodation. The function of this programme is to respond to the accommodation needs of Departments, while continuing to achieve best use of State property assets through a balance of ownership, leasing and disposal and to maintain and upkeep the State property portfolio. A number of individual projects and ongoing programmes will be managed in 2010 as part of the project development and management aspect of the programme under subhead E. Major works will advance in 2010 including projects at the Department of Transport, both Dundalk and Finglas, the Department of Justice, at Ashtowngate, Dublin for the Garda Síochána, and at the Revenue Commissioners' computer centre in Kilmainham.
A sum of €36.730 million, half of which relates to the pay requirement of a direct labour force, primarily in Dublin, is provided under subhead F1 in 2010 for property maintenance tasks. Facilities management services will continue to be delivered at Dublin Castle conference centre, Farmleigh, Áras an Uachtaráin, Castletown House, and Kilkenny Castle.
My office also has responsibility for the purchase of Garda sites and improvement works at Garda stations. Refurbishment works and provision of enhanced Garda facilities to existing stations are due on site this year at Kilkenny Garda headquarters, Cavan, Blarney, Henry Street in Limerick, Athlone, Mountjoy-Fitzgibbon Street, Clonark in County Roscommon and next month will see the opening of the Garda station at Buncrana. Construction of new Garda stations will begin at Kevin Street, phase 2, Ballincollig, Castleisland, Garrycastle, Athlone and Bunbeg. Priority works will also be carried out in 2010 at Mooncoin, Craughwell, Delvin, Ronanstown and Carndonagh. Murrough regional headquarters, Galway will be ready to go to tender at the end of 2010.
The Estimate provided in 2010 for universal access projects does not represent the full extent of works taking place to make public buildings accessible to all. All major construction projects undertaken by the office ensure that the best access facilities are included in the design solutions. Universal access projects to be carried out in 2010 include lift installation at Dublin Castle, Tralee social welfare office, Iveagh House and general access at Rathfarnham Castle, St. Enda's Pearse Museum, Kings Inns and Ossory House.
A constant challenge for the office is the management of rental space for Departments. The annual allocation on Vote 10 for rents, rates etc. in 2010 is €127.7 million. The utilisation of space in office accommodation provided to Departments is now critical with the roll-out of decentralised accommodation. Economies of space and cost, particularly in the Dublin area, is a crucial element of the property management function of the office, and the OPW is aware of the importance and scale of the task, particularly in the current economic climate. As part of this ongoing exercise, OPW is pursuing a rationalisation strategy for the central Dublin portfolio, with a view to achieving significant savings in rent through lease surrenders. Despite rental payments being primarily demand-led, potential savings of up to €5 million have been ring fenced in 2011 following an aggressive programme of surrenders as a result of identified spare capacity in Dublin office accommodation.
The final programme on the output statement is decentralisation and it anticipates an overall spend of €27 million. I am pleased to be able to say the staff of the Office of Public Works are now headquartered in a splendid sustainable landmark building in Trim, a famous heritage town, with in excess of 220 staff already in situ. The construction and fit-out accommodation programme is proceeding in line with priorities set out by the decentralisation implementation group and is provided for under subhead E, with a budget of €20 million for 2010. Offices will open soon in Newbridge and Roscommon, while state of the art offices opened in Wexford last Friday, with accommodation capacity for 280 staff. Planning permission has been granted for Tipperary and it is expected a contract will be placed shortly. The accommodation brief for the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in Portlaoise will now be provided under the traditional procurement method, having previously being part of a public private partnership. In 2010, OPW will continue to pay rents in the region of €7 million per annum for decentralised offices throughout the country where leased accommodation proved to be the optimal solution for the client needs.
The select committee can be assured that the care and management of the State property portfolio is being properly and prudently managed from the new OPW base in Trim. I compliment the chairman and staff of the OPW on meeting the ongoing challenges presented to them. I am confident they will continue to provide an efficient and effective service under the comprehensive and wide-ranging brief in their charge. I will be glad to respond to any questions members may wish to raise and I will take on board, to the extent I can, any views they wish to put to me.
I call Deputy Burton and I will allow her 15 minutes to make a general statement and then we will deal with the detailed questions.
I want to make a general statement also.
Yes, Deputy, if Deputy O'Donnell is not attending.
It is always a pleasure to welcome the Minister of State and the OPW officials to the committee. I had an opportunity during the year to visit quite a number of premises and grounds managed by the OPW and I wish to compliment the staff on the very high standard of work and service provided to visitors at various locations.
The overall spend is down and is likely to be down even further this year. Has any analysis been carried out of the employment content generated in Ireland by OPW capital projects, given that tender and construction prices have fallen dramatically and given that we also need to keep stimulus in the economy? I would like to hear the Minister of State's comments as to how many people will be employed in continuing construction refurbishment. Even with the reduction in costs, it may well be that the numbers of people being maintained in employment, directly or indirectly, is still significant.
Has the Minister of State an estimate of the number of empty properties which are in the ownership of the State and under the management of the OPW? What is the outlook for those properties? The Minister of State may remember that on a number of occasions I have referred to a premises on the main street of Blanchardstown, a former bank premises, which was bought at the height of the boom and eight years later is still lying empty. I mentioned before that the Daughters of Charity disability service was interested in availing of the building but it is still lying idle for the eighth or ninth year. It was bought for quite an expensive price at the height of the boom. I note the Minister of State makes reference in the details of the report to the probation and welfare service offices being finally completed on the site of the town centre in Blanchardstown. I do not know if the OPW has a position on this.
I refer to the issue of rents. I note the reference at the end of the Minister of State's speech to achieving greater value in terms of surrenders. Has there been any negotiation on rental leases, given the economic climate? How many landlords have reduced rents to the OPW? Has the OPW sought downward rent reviews? Last year the Minister of State's response was that these were legal agreements and not much could be done about it.
About the time the NAMA legislation came into force, a couple of days before the December budget, I understand a lease was signed with a very well-known developer who is prominently listed among those engaging in the services and transfers to NAMA. That individual seems to have been able to sign a deal through the OPW for the old Motorola factory in Swords at what I regard as a pretty huge cost of €1 million a year on a 20 year lease. The OPW has also indicated that this premises which will be used as storage space for the National Museum of Ireland will require refurbishment at a cost of €1.5 million approximately.
This developer is reliably included in the top ten of NAMA. I am sure the rental income of more than €1 million a year must come as a generous relief to the gentleman involved. If the State is leasing premises from people engaged in the NAMA process, if the individual is generating €1 million from the State every year in rental income, is there any way in which some of that rental stream can be employed to pay back the individual's debt to the State? His portfolio is in the top ten in NAMA and the average debt in the top ten is €1.5 billion. I would like information on this case.
The second part that concerns me is that this is to be used for archival storage for the National Museum of Ireland. Some years ago there was a report by the Comptroller and Auditor General pointing out that the archival storage, which I think was in Daingean, was of poor quality and there was a proposal therefore to lease a premises. I welcome the fact the National Museum will have archival storage but I understand that suggestions were made about other OPW sites, including heritage buildings, for example in the Collins Barracks campus or other campuses that could have been utilised. Given that it is an archival site, which would be made available to researchers and experts, which is a good proposal, why would the site be leased rather a premises purchased? I question the wisdom of a 20 year lease in which the OPW renovates the Motorola factory then runs it and having paid €20 million would have to hand it back to the developer. Archival research is an important area in other museums around the world, both for employment and for visiting expert researchers in various fields. Why would the State not seek to own such a property rather than simply lease it at an expensive cost? I invite the Minister of State to comment on that.
I would also like the Minister of State to comment on the economics of the National Conference Centre. The annual cost in terms of capital paid down is €36 million. An estimate of current costs is €9.6 million. Is a business plan available for the National Conference Centre which, again, looks very good?
I am delighted to see the proposal about the GPO is on hold. The GPO becoming a glorified shopping centre is not at all consistent with the level of importance the site has. I remain unconvinced that the Abbey would be successful there. That is a personal view. The Minister of State is a theatre goer and he may have a different view. This may be an opportunity to consider the matter again. My view is that the best site for the Abbey is undoubtedly on O'Connell Street but up towards the former Carlton cinema site or in the vicinity of the Ambassador. The top of O'Connell Street badly needs revival. If and when we ever come into the money again I hope there is an opportunity to rethink the main purpose of the GPO as simply being a modern shopping centre.
An area with which I have a lot of contact is the Phoenix Park. First, the vegetable gardens in the walled garden in Ashtown House are fantastic. Well done to everyone who has worked on them. They are the envy of gardeners right around the country. There is a need for a children's playground in Farmleigh, which is very successful. The children's playground for which I argued for years in Ashtown Castle is wonderful. It is heavily utilised all the time by parents. The playground by the Phoenix Park gate still continues to experience difficulty because of the recurrence of drug problems there. Unfortunately, every time one spends money on it the problems return a few years later.
The state of the main road in the Phoenix Park is appalling. It is the rocky road to and from the centre of Dublin. I am sure many of the staff who are frequently in and out of the park would agree. It is not appropriate for such an important driveway. I accept it has to do with the water table in the park and the horrible winter we had but I would like to hear if there is a proposal to address the current state of the road.
Reference is made to the national procurement service and to Trim. I have not been inside the building there but from the outside it looks lovely. How many people have moved and how many are still commuting, as it were, in the bus provided by the OPW to and from Trim? Why is the national procurement service, which sounds like a good idea and seems to be doing valuable work, located in both Trim and Dublin when that distance is not very far, especially now that the road has improved a lot?
They are the main points. I compliment the OPW on many fine buildings and the fact the public experience of the staff is consistently positive. In the context of us rebuilding tourism the OPW has a significant part to play.
I will try to deal with the questions to the best of my ability. I thank Deputy Burton for her various positive comments about the work of the Office of Public Works. That is a view I share. It is a great privilege to work for an organisation that has had such a significant impact on this country going back to 1831, both long before independence and since then.
On the overall spend, I accept Deputy Burton's point that some of the activities in which we are engaged that involve building or commissioning building, refurbishment or for that matter the flood works, have an employment content. The CIF has produced figures for the amount of employment created per €1 million capital expended. Unfortunately, I do not have that figure to hand but I do not disagree with it. Since the present crisis emerged in 2008 we have been conscious of the potential of the office to contribute to any Government package that might be decided for the purpose of providing some stimulus to the economy. At this stage we probably have what might be called oven-ready projects. I am sure the Deputy appreciates the appropriateness and feasibility of them is a matter for Government decision not for the office. Her point is a good and valid one and we are continuing to provide at some level stimulus and construction employment in areas where it is needed.
The next matter raised primarily focused on the former AIB premises on the main street in Blanchardstown. I am sure I do not need to outline the history of that building. Deputy Burton is familiar with that and there were local issues regarding its proposed use as a probation and welfare office in the middle of the last decade. It was then proposed to be used as a driving test centre and was formally assigned to the Department of Transport for that purpose. Planning permission was received in May 2008 and it is proposed to proceed with that when funding becomes available. The building is currently unoccupied.
With a very limited proportion of properties there will be complicated and unintended histories like this. All the time different Departments and offices are surrendering and vacating properties. One is always on a moving escalator.
The next issue was rental surrender and negotiations. As the Deputy is probably aware, I am in some ways as unhappy as she is about the matter. There has been a practice for at least the past 15 to 20 years, if not longer, of including in the majority of contracts until the recent past upward rent review clauses. The only two options in such cases are either an upward rent review or what has happened in the recent past, the rent staying at a level. That practice has been ended and the legal advice available to us is that it is not possible to override those clauses. I understand from previous statements that Deputy Burton may have advice to a different effect.
I have advice from two senior sources.
I do not want to put pressure on the Deputy as her job is to put pressure on me. She could make that advice available to us for examination to see if it is possible to progress the matter. I will leave that matter open.
The 2009 National Museum storage in Swords is the next issue. I am a Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport with special responsibility for culture. Storage for a number of the national cultural institutions is a significant problem, and this includes the National Archives. There must be a distinction between consultation, storage and retrieval. For example, we have next door the National Library, which has always stored many of its books in places like Santry. One must give a day's notice to retrieve certain books. The ideal solution is to have storage facilities next door so materials can be quickly retrieved but that is not always physically possible.
The issue concerns the pre-digital age, and there has been an exponential expansion over the past 50 or 60 years of materials which need to be stored, including objects, papers and other archives. For example, people in the National Archives have created space by placing Land Commission records, which are voluminous, in Portlaoise alongside decentralised officers.
The name of the well-known property developer is familiar to me but I have never met him. It would not be my practice to involve myself personally in any way with contractual negotiations of this kind, although I am interested in outcomes and outputs. It is inappropriate, to put it mildly, to involve myself in negotiations with developers. I rely entirely on the professionalism and integrity of staff. Regardless of whether the landlord is in NAMA, a tenant must still pay rent, even if the tenant is a State body.
The Deputy is implying that with one arm the State is paying rent while with another it should be clawing back or withholding the money. That is a policy issue that stretches beyond the Office of Public Works. I cannot say whether that is, under present circumstances, feasible, legal or constitutional.
With regard to the National Conference Centre——
With regard to the Motorola factory, why would the State not have acquired that as opposed to leasing it at a very high rate? Is it not the kind of facility that would be permanent? If a really good facility for the storage of items is established, while 20 years would be a long time for most of us, in the lifespan of the OPW as outlined by the Minister of State at the beginning of the meeting, it is not that long. This issue involves artifacts, etc., from the museum that would be accessed by researchers rather than the general public. It is an important activity.
The site was not for sale. I can only assume, subject to any contradiction from colleagues afterwards, that it was nonetheless a very suitable premises with regard to location and capacity. I am sure, particularly given the date of the contract of December 2009, there was no question of making any loose change available to a developer. It was a contract negotiated for best value.
It was right on the NAMA legislation finally going through.
I advise the committee that we must vacate the room at 4.30 p.m. There will be two other contributors.
Apparently both the OPW and the museum looked at a number of sites and the museum had a preference for Swords. We did not have the capital available to build a facility. If there are further questions the Deputies may put down parliamentary questions.
The State acquired in an expensive fashion a prison site just up the road.
That was before my time in the OPW.
There are many acres there.
I have expressed my views on that in my capacity as a Deputy and as somebody who farms with my brother. I will put it no stronger than to say I simply scratch my head at the notion of paying €30 million for something like a 150 acre farm. Do not ask me to confer a retrospective blessing——
As the crow flies, the two sites are very close.
With regard to the National Conference Centre, the policy side of this was originally the responsibility of my former Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism. It goes back to the time of the former Minister, Deputy John O'Donoghue, and was part of the agreed programme for Government in June 2002. A preferred tenderer, Spencer Dock Convention Centre Dublin Ltd., SDCCD, was appointed in August 2006. The conference centre is scheduled to open for business on 1 September 2010 and SDCCD will be responsible for operating it for a 25 years concession period. It will revert to the State in September 2035. The procurement method used by OPW is design, build, finance, operate and maintain, DBFOM. We are paying for the facility over 25 years by means of unitary payments and that begins in 2010. Payments are higher in the first few years and reduce over the 25 year period. It is one of those facilities where the cost benefit is not necessarily to be judged strictly and solely on a commercial basis. There would be broader benefits to the State in terms of bringing events and conferences here. All states engage in that territory.
Why is there a current cost of €9.5 million? I understand the capital cost but what is the current cost of €9.5 million? There is a capital Estimate of €36.35 on page 15 and a current Estimate for 2010 of €9.5 million.
The first of the payments is classed as current. It is a payment back on buildings.
I thank the Minister of State. I am sorry. He was about to speak about the GPO.
Much thought needs to be given to a suitable location for the Abbey Theatre and a suitable use for the GPO. Unfortunately, there are difficulties with some sites. There is an insuperable difficulty with the docks site and it is, effectively, off the agenda. One might have doubts about how easy it would be to get people to that location. The Carlton site was favoured at one time but there are issues about assembling enough property and depth to it to enable it to be used. The Abbey Theatre site itself would involve several small individual property owners. As we have noted in the case of Thornton Hall, when the State is a purchaser the price of property immediately rises. What can be said is that there has been a substantial refurbishment of the Abbey Theatre, as and where it is. In the short term, that means we do not have to be rushed into a decision. In the medium to longer term it is clearly desirable to have a site for the Abbey Theatre. It is probably also the case that different Ministers and office holders might have different views. The view that it should go into the GPO was based on the, "do we need another museum" type of argument. Within and without Government, debate on this continues.
I entirely agree with what Deputy Burton has to say about the walled garden, which I revisited at its best during the Bloom festival. I opened — or re-opened — a children's playground in St. Stephen's Green this morning. We now have a policy of providing children's playgrounds, at least in our bigger facilities such as Kilkenny Castle and Doneraile Park. Apart from anything else, they attract visitors because the demand comes from the smallest among us to go to these places. However, there are already two playgrounds in the Phoenix Park and the Ashtown one is fairly close. I know exactly what the Deputy means about the unsatisfactory nature of the road, which has a high volume of traffic. Not merely is it bumpy and unsatisfactory, it is, arguably, intolerable. It is being degraded by the volume of traffic.
It is a Cavan quality potholed road.
The character of the park is being changed by the difficulty of getting from one side of the road to the other. There are health and safety and parking issues.
If it would be agreeable, I will circulate a briefing note on this rather than delay things further.
That would be very helpful.
There is a huge misconception in the media with regard to the community trip. The famous OPW bus takes all of 16 out of 220 employees and eight of them are not, strictly speaking, employees. They are doing architectural type short-term apprenticeships with the OPW to improve their experience and CVs. The bus takes people to meetings and comes back at 10 o'clock. Some meetings take place in Trim and some in Dublin. I would call this collective transport, which the OPW used even before Trim came into the equation. I would like to invite Opposition spokespeople who were not able to come to the opening to visit our building in Trim on any day I am working there and I will show them around. We have a people-carrier and when three, four or five people have to go to a location, such as the Botanic Gardens, it can take them there so there is no need for taxi fares and so on. It saves on travel costs. The OPW bus fits into the same category.
Since the opening of the M3, it is as quick to get from south Dublin to Trim as to get from south Dublin to St. Stephen's Green. As the Deputy knows, the decentralisation process was voluntary so not everyone volunteered to come to Trim. We downsized our main Dublin office and were based in a number of locations. Instead of occupying Nos. 50 — 52 we are only in No. 52 which, in the longer term, is destined for the Department of Justice and Law Reform. It was originally intended for the Department of Health and Children but plans change.
I will make a final observation. Along with a number of public representatives, including the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I was at the opening of the offices of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in Wexford. The experience in County Tipperary would be the same. A great number of the civil servants who work in the Department in Wexford, which covers all areas of policy, come from that region. The advantage and traction of decentralisation is not so much the public image of large numbers of people working in Dublin opting to go down the country but that public service employment is available in strategic locations in different parts of the country. I fully accept the criticism that the original programme was much too ambitious and clearly it has been downsized. A review is due next year so I cannot pre-empt what will happen in that regard but it is likely that only a limited number of projects will go forward where there is the demand and critical mass to do so.
As it operates now in a less ambitious sort of way, decentralisation makes a contribution to relieving the acute pressures that existed in the centre of Dublin at the height of the Celtic tiger. It also redistributes wealth somewhat around the country.
I apologise for being late. I wish to share time with Deputy Terence Flanagan.
Regarding flood risk management the Minister of State will be aware there was significant flooding in counties Limerick and Clare. He will be well aware of works to be done along the River Shannon, from Clonlara and O'Brien's Bridge down to Castleconnell. What type of funding has been provided and what is the situation at present concerning capital works around Shannonbanks, extending as far as Parteen in County Clare?
I refer to rents, rates and entire buildings and note that rents and rates are down 14% on last year. How many vacant buildings has the OPW at present, broken down between rented properties and those it owns? The Minister might indicate the location of vacant properties and the level of rents being paid for them. I note the Minister of State's observations on upward-only rent reviews. This must be addressed and not only by the OPW. It causes severe difficulties in the current climate, especially for the SME sector.
The Minister of State touched on the National Convention Centre so I will not elaborate on it. He stated the project will open in 2010. What is the opening date? He said the State will pay for the facility over a 25 year period. He might indicate what the cost will be on an annual basis over that period.
In regard to appropriations I note on page 21 of the hand-out, under the heading Miscellaneous Sub-heading J7, the figure is down from €5.5 million to €1.3 million, a considerable fall. The Minister of State might explain what that figure comprises and the reason for the decrease.
The Minister of State referred to Garda stations. In my constituency in Limerick I note that our main station, Henry Street, is designated for works. The Minister of State might indicate when those works will be carried out, their cost and when he expects they will be completed.
The Minister of State touched on decentralisation. Where does Government policy sit on decentralisation? I note many projects have gone through but many others have been postponed pending the review in 2011. When will that review be carried out and concluded? Is decentralisation no longer Government policy?
The Deputy's first question was on flood relief in the vicinity of Limerick. I visited Shannonbanks and Clonlara early on in that planning period——
I thank the Minister of State for that.
All due credit should go to those involved.
Yes, tremendous work was done.
The OPW made a fire brigade effort. There was fear of tidal flooding in addition to fluvial flooding so a bank was thrown up hastily. I am sure the Deputy knows that temporary embankment is to be improved and made permanent in the relatively calm weather conditions we enjoy at present.
In Clonlara, the channel has been widened by 20 metres and further widening has been requested. We are in discussion with another interested party, the National Parks and Wildlife Service. In a more general sense, as the Deputy knows, it is open to Limerick or Clare county councils or Limerick City Council to put forward minor relief projects, as many counties have done. Obviously, in the longer term the Shannon CFRAM study will be of crucial relevance and importance to Limerick.
When I was on the banks of the Shannon at the University of Limerick the sports facilities were not flooded but were threatened in that some of the grass outside had been under water.
The OPW did tremendous work at the time of the floods, as did the three local authorities in counties Limerick and Clare and Limerick city and I wish to put that on record. When does the Minister of State expect the capital works to be carried out in Shannonbanks? Westbury is also exposed.
The name Westbury is not familiar to me. The work in Shannonbanks will be done over the coming weeks.
That is great. I thank the Minister of State.
That is not a big or long-term project. The Deputy asked about rents and rates. The vacancy rate is about 1% to 2% of the portfolio which compares well with the private sector. At any given time there is bound to be a certain vacancy level. We are currently rationalising the office space in Dublin due to decentralisation and the key surrenders in Dublin in 2010 will save approximately €6 million in rental costs. There are very few vacant buildings but there are pockets of space in buildings which are being rationalised. A point was made to me in Wexford where there is some vacant space that it is not sensible to build, say, a Government office, which immediately on opening will be full to capacity as capacity needs may grow. It is sensible to have spare space in any building because extensions and such work are more extensive.
I have a final question.
The Deputy will have to be brief as Deputy Terence Flanagan has been waiting to contribute for a long time.
What is the rental value of the vacant space?
It seems the Deputy was not listening to what I said.
If Deputy O'Donnell were to table a question on that matter, we could give him an answer.
With regard to the National Conference Centre, the payment of €46 million from subhead F6 is in respect of a unitary payment arising in 2010, with €48 million to be paid in each of the years 2011 to 2015 and thereafter payments will reduce to a level of €24 million to €25 million per year up to 2035. The project cost in current money terms is €318 million.
Moving on to——
Decentralisation.
No. Before I come to that, the Deputy asked about the——
Garda station.
No, the reason for a decrease in the figure under the subhead. A total of €3.7 million of long-standing credits were paid over to the Exchequer in 2009 on publications and Iris Oifigiúil accounts, and that was not a repeat income for 2010.
With regard to Henry Street Garda station, we are currently fitting out a building, Estuary House, which adjoins that Garda station, at a cost of €1 million. This will increase accommodation for the Henry Street Garda station. Builders are on-site and that work is due to be completed this year.
Okay.
With regard to the policy on decentralisation, I wear two hats and wearing my OPW hat, I advise the Deputy that the policy on decentralisation is made in the Department of Finance. The decentralisation implementation group is in the Department of Finance. The Office of Public Works does not make policy. Decentralisation still remains a Government policy but clearly on a reduced scale. A review in this regard is to be carried out next year. The question as to when precisely next year it will be carried out should be addressed to the Minister for Finance rather than to me because I do not have any input into that.
Is it to be carried out by the Department of Finance?
Rather than the OPW.
Absolutely. If there are particular queries about sites or buildings and so on, as part of the finance family we co-operate and would make inputs of that kind but the policy decisions are matters for the Minister for Finance and the Government, not the Office of Public Works. We execute Government policy. Obviously as a Deputy and Minister of State, I have some views on the subject——
I would like to hear those views.
——which I expressed earlier.
I welcome the Minister of State and his staff. In regard to the 7% decease in the allocation in comparison to last year, will that have any effect on the opening of monument sites throughout the country? Does the Minister of State envisage it will have a direct effect?
Regarding the annual output statements, a great deal of information is given in the documents, but there is no column recording outputs that were not achieved. The target and what has been achieved is recorded for, say, 2009 but what has not been achieved for 2009 is not recorded. That is a drawback not only in terms of the annual output statement for the Office of Public Works but in terms of the annual output statements for all Departments. It is impossible to gauge what has not been achieved and what is being carried forward into 2010.
With regard to the property portfolio managed by the OPW, are there plans to sell any of the buildings? I note a value for money and policy review is being carried out, which is specifically in the area of rents. Will that report of the value for money review on rents accruing from OPW buildings be published later this year? Will it indicate which properties will be sold or bought? Can the Minister of State advise the potential savings that will be made in 2010 arising from lease surrenders? I saw a figure of €5 million for 2011. Will the savings be €6 million for 2010?
With regard to the staff numbers, I am unsure as to the number of staff who are seasonal workers. Will the Minister of State give a breakdown of the number of his staff who have decentralised to offices and how many more it is expected will decentralise or what is the future plan in that respect?
The OPW has responsibility for the art portfolio on behalf of all Departments. What is the value of the art portfolio managed by the OPW? Are there plans to sell any artwork, having regard to our current economic difficulties?
I have seen many of the OPW buildings in Dublin and around the country, which are maintained to a very high standard, on which his staff must be very much commended. I note some of the buildings have a plaque indicating they are managed by the OPW but they might not have notice detailing the history of the buildings. Are their plans to review the buildings managed by the OPW to ensure proper descriptions are given to enable people to learn of the historic importance of all the buildings?
The target savings to be made from the national procurement service are €40 million for 2010. Has the Minister of State information on the potential savings in that service that will be made in 2011 and in 2012?
The Minister of State has responsibility for sports grants for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport. Can he indicate what is involved in the certification process? Does his Department audit or administer the grants before they are given out? I do not understand what is involved in that regard.
Can the Minister of State give us an idea of the final costs involved in staging the promotion of Ireland in Expo 2010 in Shanghai?
Following on from Deputy Terence Flanagan's question on the value for money report, can the Minister of State advise if it will be presented to our committee?
If I may, I will pick out one question to exclude an area. I do not have responsibility for either sport or tourism. I am only responsible for what used to be called arts and is now culture. Any question on the sports capital grants should be addressed to the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport.
It states in the briefing note that the Minister of State's Department is responsible for certification of the payment of certain sports grants——
Yes, in terms of the building.
——on behalf of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport. It is on page 50.
It is simply about the quality of the building, that it will not fall down the next day, that it does not have some major structural defects, that the roof will not leak and so on.
Is this for sports clubs?
Yes.
The problem of opening heritage sites came to my attention in winter 2009. There were some proposed curtailments which I did not wish to see occur and we revised that. In 2010, things are broadly similar to last year's revised version. It depends to some extent on when Easter falls, because that is often an opening day for these sites. It also depends on the category of the number of visitors, such as whether there are 5,000 or 25,000 visitors. Some of our key facilities are open for almost the whole year. Given the importance of tourism, especially in the current climate, the imperative is not to cut back. We are somewhat more stretched than two or three years ago because of staffing constraints, but this has not impacted on closing heritage sites to a greater extent.
There is a table in this document with two columns on the output target and the output achieved. It is a bit premature in 2010 to be telling committee members what output has been achieved, as we are only half way through the year. It sometimes happens that things get completed ahead of time, while at other stages things may be delayed. For example, the flooding relief scheme in Clonmel was delayed by several months because of an archeological find. That was not anticipated and it was only a minor part of the whole project, but these things can happen and one cannot be dogmatic about them. That is one of the reasons for the carryover facility of 10% of capital. One cannot be rigid about the calendar in the OPW any more than in farming.
That is understandable. Anybody reading the document would think that 100% of the targets have been achieved for 2009. It is not obvious——
I have not said or claimed that. Anybody who claims that they have achieved 100% of their targets would probably be wrong, but sometimes we achieve things that we had not planned to achieve, so that balances it out to some extent.
We do not have any plans to sell anything at the moment. It is not a particularly good time to do that. However, we are trying to consolidate our holdings. The report on the value for money study on property will be finished in the autumn and will be made available to the public. We are surrendering leases, so that reduces costs.
What is the target in 2010 for potential savings?
It is about €5 million to €6 million.
Is that the same for 2011?
That will broadly continue over the next few years. The exact figure will depend on the individual leases that come up when there is a break in the lease. That will not necessarily be perfectly consistent from one year to the next.
To answer the Deputy's question on decentralisation, we have about 220 staff in Trim and 30 in Claremorris. That is in a temporary premises, so that is for review in 2011.
The art portfolio includes paintings in our heritage buildings in places like Kilkenny Castle, Dublin Castle and even Leinster House, among other places. Of course it may exclude paintings that are in Deputies' offices that may belong to the Deputies themselves. I am speaking for myself there. There are no plans——
Is there an art register?
We have a complete record.
I would like to ask a question. Has the Department got a schedule for payment of invoices?
In respect of what?
Invoices.
We are compliant with whatever payments are needed. We have a very efficient accounts branch in Kilkenny. That is another decentralised office, but it was part of a previous decentralisation programme. The OPW accounts branch is in Kilkenny and employs three dozen people.
The cost of the pavilion construction, including fees, was €4 million. Exhibition design and installation cost about €2 million and operational costs from June to the end of September came to €3 million to €4 million. We are talking about somewhere between €9 and €10 million. These things are quite expensive.
We will have to move on to another subject as we are running out of time. I want to raise another issue that the Minister of State might answer in writing. The OPW has a building next to the Garda station in Mallow and there have been substantial negotiations ongoing to allow the Garda Síochána to use that building. I would like to know if these negotiations have been finalised.
Are there any other questions on the annual output statements or the subheads?
In answer to the question on payments, 60%-70% are within 15 days, over 90% are within 30 days and there is prompt payment interest on less than 1% of our bills. We work in co-operation with the Department of Finance in respect of the NPS. The Department sets down, as part of each Department's Estimates, the savings to be achieved on an annual basis, so we are effectively helping Departments to achieve savings and comply with the Estimates. The NPS has a programme that examines categories of goods that can be leveraged to achieve substantial savings across the public sector. There is an ongoing programme and categories of commonalities such as electricity, fuel, stationary, vehicles and so on will continue to be targeted for savings. We have identified the top 30 areas of spending which can be targeted in a strategic manner to achieve economies of scale and better value contracts, including reduced administration costs.
What are the targets for 2011 and 2012?
Effectively, the targets have already been absorbed. They are in the Book of Estimates for each Department. Essentially, it is not practical for us to go to Departments seeking further savings. Not every Department is as well behaved as the Office of Public Works, where we do not regard it as a source of shame that we have managed to reduce our spending by 35% over the past two years. Not everybody has that attitude so it is really a question of making sure that Estimates, which in almost all cases are reduced, are implemented and identifying savings with the Departments perhaps to give them a little more elbow room.
Did the Minister of State take on board my point on the lack of plaques on certain historical sites giving a description of the building?
I entirely agree with the Deputy. We have more than 7,000 buildings including many tower houses, and some of these have only a notice stating they are under the care of the Office of National Monuments.
That is all they have and we need to sort this out.
I agree with the Deputy that a description of the history would be helpful. Most have it but there are some exceptions.
I will not go into detail on the great work done in Mallow, Fermoy and Donerail but I commend everybody in the OPW for that tremendous work. I look forward to it being finished.
I am trying to make sure the Chairman's main constituency towns are not flooded in future.
It has worked.
The Chairman raised a specific question about Mallow Garda station. The adjoining property is used for the storage of flood relief materials.
Very good. I will be able to tell them that.
It is hoped it will become vacant when the flood relief work is finished and if so it will be allocated to the Garda Síochána. This might be two or three years down the line.
I thank the Minister of State and his staff for coming before the committee. It is a pity we did not have longer but we look forward to meeting them again next year.
I thank committee members and my colleagues for their assistance.