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Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 28 Nov 2023

Vote 28 - Foreign Affairs (Supplementary)

I have received an apology from Deputy Carthy. Deputy Stanton will be along later. With regard to the meeting, the Dáil has ordered that the Supplementary Estimates for public services in respect of Vote 27 - International Co-operation and Vote 28 - Foreign Affairs be referred to this committee for consideration. On behalf of the select committee, I welcome the Minister of State with responsibility for international development and the diaspora, my constituency colleague, Deputy Sean Fleming, and officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs. On behalf of the committee, I also thank the officials and the Department for the comprehensive briefing material provided to the committee in advance.

The proposed format of this section of the meeting is that the committee will deal with Vote 27 and then deal with Vote 28 although, in these circumstances, I am open to dealing with both by way of debate and questions together and to then deal with the report of the Dáil separately, as I am required to do.

If it is okay with the Minister of State, having regard to the composition of the meeting, we might deal with both Votes together.

At the outset of our consideration of the Supplementary Estimates, I will invite the Minister of State to give an overview of Votes 27 and 28, outlining any pressures likely to impact on his Department’s performance or expenditure in relation to the Vote for the remainder of this year. I will then invite questions from members on each Vote.

I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite the Minister of State to make his statement.

With the committee’s agreement, I will present for members' consideration the Supplementary Estimates for the Department of Foreign Affairs. These relate to Vote 27 - International Co-operation and Vote 28 - Foreign Affairs. In total, across both Votes, the request we are making is for a net increase of €71 million, comprising an increase of €25 million in Vote 27 and an increase of €46 million in Vote 28. This will increase the total voted expenditure ceiling for the Department of Foreign Affairs from €1.057 billion to €1.135 billion in 2023.

Members will have received the advance briefing note provided by my Department. This summarises the reasons for the increases, which I will be happy to explain in more detail before responding to any further questions may might have.

On Vote 27, the Department’s request is for an additional allocation of €25 million. The largest part of the request, €24 million, is for humanitarian assistance. In January, the UN estimated that there were 339 million people in need of life-saving humanitarian assistance globally. That was the highest on record. Today, that figure is a staggering 365 million, the majority of whom are women and children.

Throughout 2023, Ireland has continued to play its part. We have supported responses to large-scale humanitarian crises and sudden onset emergencies, while not losing sight of our commitment to crises that are not receiving international attention or that are seriously underfunded. In Ukraine and the neighbouring region, Ireland has allocated €32 million in humanitarian and development aid this year. As we head into winter, Ukraine continues to face immense humanitarian and other challenges, with the continued bombardment by Russia of both civilians and critical infrastructure across the country. In Sudan, the devastating conflict that broke out in April has resulted in a humanitarian crisis that is not receiving the attention it should. Ireland has provided over €16 million this year to address the situation in Sudan and for refugees in the region. In Syria, years of conflict and its consequences continue to inflict unimaginable suffering on the civilian population. Ireland continues to stand by those impacted and has provided over €27 million in 2023. In the Horn of Africa, prolonged and extreme drought have more recently been compounded by widespread flooding. Communities continue to rely on humanitarian assistance for their survival. In 2023, Ireland provided nearly €20 million to support those communities. On top of these ongoing crises, the world has witnessed a series of devastating natural disasters this year, including earthquakes in Türkiye, Syria, Morocco and Afghanistan and floods in Libya. A total of €13.5 million was provided in response to those crises.

In the past two months, we have witnessed horrific scenes in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory. The attack by Hamas was one of the worst acts of terrorism that Israel has ever experienced. The Government has condemned this without reservation. Since then, the high number of civilian casualties in Gaza has been deeply shocking and the humanitarian needs in Gaza continue to escalate. Most recent reports suggest that over 14,000 people have been killed, including 6,000 children and 4,000 women. More than 27,000 people are also reported to have been injured. More than 1.7 million people in Gaza are estimated to be internally displaced, including almost 900,000 displaced people who are staying in at least 154 United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA, shelters. Gaza’s civilian population urgently needs food, water and medical supplies. International agencies, including the UN, need sustained access and adequate fuel to ensure that these vital supplies can be distributed without further delay. Now that a temporary truce has been established, we must ensure the flow of humanitarian aid is significantly increased. As the committee will be aware, even before this conflict broke out, a large proportion of Palestinians already depended on the UNRWA for basic services, including education, health and water. Despite the killing of more than 100 of its staff, UNRWA continues to do its utmost to support civilians in dire need. Ireland has been a long-time supporter of UNRWA.

The Supplementary Estimate under consideration today will underpin an additional €10 million pledge that was made to UNRWA by the Tánaiste on 18 October, bringing Ireland’s total funding this year to UNRWA to €18 million. This will support UNRWA’s core functions, including its staff and operations, as well as procurement of the materials it needs to deliver vital services in these most difficult of times.

In October, the Tánaiste also announced additional support of €3 million to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, OCHA, which runs the occupied Palestinian territories humanitarian fund. That fund directs emergency aid to where needs are greatest through trusted, established humanitarian partners on the ground. With this Supplementary Estimate, we will aim to provide additional funding for Gaza through UN agencies, including the World Food Programme, which is working to provide life-saving food and water, and the World Health Organization. We will also provide further support to the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies for the work of the Palestinian Red Crescent in Gaza and the Egyptian Red Crescent at the border. We will also work through partners such as the UNHCR and the International Committee of the Red Cross to address the regional implications of the crisis, in countries such as Lebanon, where extreme levels of vulnerability will be further compounded, and in Syria where insecurity continues to rise.

In addition to the appalling suffering in Gaza, it is important that we continue to highlight increasing violence in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. More than 200 Palestinians, including 52 children, have been killed by Israeli forces since 7 October. This is a cause for serious concern and Ireland redoubles our calls for the protection of civilians as a priority. Ireland is widely recognised to have projected global leadership on this crisis since 7 October. We have taken a principled, human-centred approach. Ireland has consistently called for a durable humanitarian ceasefire, the protection of all civilians and the release of all hostages. Finding a path to peace – a path to a two-state solution, to which the Government is unwavering in its commitment – remains essential.

In addition to the request for humanitarian assistance, we are requesting a Supplementary Estimate of €1 million towards the purchase of new official accommodation in Bogotá, Colombia. The property in question is currently being rented and a detailed business case has identified it as the most satisfactory option on the market to meet the embassy’s business needs, while also ensuring the security of staff.

As an aside, I was in one country recently where there were about 30 staff in the embassy but we also had to employ 30 security staff full time. That gives an indication of the importance of security in some of the countries where we have our embassies.

On Vote 28, the Department’s request is for an additional allocation of €53 million gross or €46 million net. This takes account of anticipated additional income of €7 million, mainly arising from passports. The specific reasons for the Supplementary Estimate are as follows. The largest part, €35.9 million, relates to Ireland’s contributions to international organisations. This can be broken down into two components. First, we are seeking €24.8 million in respect of Ireland’s contributions to the European Peace Facility, EPF, an important instrument aimed at enhancing the European Union's ability to prevent conflicts, build peace and strengthen international security. Given the huge upsurge in needs, emanating in particular from the conflict in Ukraine, a number of decisions have been taken in the past year providing for increases in the ceiling of the EPF, which now stands at more than €12 billion.

Based on that ceiling and the GNI key that currently applies, Ireland’s total commitment up to 2027 stands at approximately €271 million and the Supplementary Estimate will go towards that figure. It is worth recalling that total support for Ukraine under the EPF now amounts to €5.6 billion, including €5.22 billion for lethal equipment and approximately €380 million for non-lethal equipment. In line with commitments in the programme for Government, Ireland has abstained from decisions to supply lethal equipment and does not contribute financially to these aspects of the packages. Instead, our contribution is directed exclusively towards the provision of non-lethal support.

An additional €11.1 million is required in respect of Ireland’s assessed contributions to the UN system, in particular our share of UN peacekeeping costs. Ireland does not have control over the contributions we are required to pay by virtue of our membership of the UN and contributions are not evenly spread over the three-year payment cycle operated by the UN. A large share of the UN's expenditure addresses its core mission of peace and security. The peacekeeping budget can vary significantly from year to year in line with the size and complexity of operations mandated by the UN Security Council, many of which are subject to annual change. At close to $6.6 billion for the current year, the peacekeeping budget significantly exceeds the UN regular budget largely due to the increase in the size, number and complexity of these operations worldwide. An additional €6.2 million is towards the purchase of new official accommodation in Washington, DC. The balance of the purchase price will be met from the Department’s capital allocation. I am sure the committee will appreciate that there can be commercial sensitivities in the completion of property transactions but I can advise that the purchase price is around $12 million and that the Department has completed the necessary governance steps under the public spending code. The committee will understand that Ireland’s relationship with the US is, arguably, the country’s single-most important bilateral relationship, along with the UK. The Embassy of Ireland in Washington, DC is charged with managing and overseeing this strategic partnership. The previous accommodation was in a poor state of repair and would have required substantial refurbishment. The new premises, which is currently rented, will come to be recognised as a key foreign policy asset, projecting a positive image of Ireland and of Ireland’s ambition and commitment to a dynamic and progressive bilateral relationship with the US for generations to come. The high-quality facilities are of a scale appropriate to the requirements to support Ireland’s social, political, cultural and economic objectives in this key country. The purchase of the property is due to be completed in mid-December, I hope.

A sum of €5.7 million is requested for non-pay administration costs. This funding will support the fit-out of existing and new properties overseas, including new Ireland House premises, as well as higher than anticipated rental, maintenance and energy costs for our properties overseas. The Department of Foreign Affairs is currently managing a significant number of property projects to realise the ambition of the Global Ireland initiative to enhance Ireland’s global impact and influence to 2025 and beyond. These include the new Ireland House in Tokyo, the largest capital investment the Department has ever made, representing Ireland’s strong commitment to our partnership with Japan, the construction of a new embassy office in Abuja, Nigeria, a new Ireland House in Singapore and the fit-out of premises for new missions in Manila, Frankfurt, Rabat, which is in Morocco, Manchester, Toronto, Miami, and Lyon.

A sum of €3.2 million is requested for the emigrant support programme The Government remains committed to supporting Irish communities all over the world, not just in the UK, US and Canada but also in countries with younger diasporas such as Australia, New Zealand and the Gulf states. This year, the value of applications to the emigrant support programme outstripped - by a considerable margin - the funding available. Hence, the request for additional funding, which will bring total funding to more than €17 million, enabling us to support additional front-line service providers, as well as community, cultural, heritage and capital projects. It will also help to mitigate adverse currency movements and inflationary pressures.

Finally, €2 million is requested to meet the Government’s commitments to the International Fund for Ireland. The IFI plays a unique role in advancing peace and reconciliation on our island. Its status as an independent international organisation and its reputation of neutrality, as well as its long-established links with the communities, mean that the IFI has a unique position of trust. Under the International Fund for Ireland connecting communities strategy, the Government has committed to funding IFI programme costs in the amount of €20 million during the term of the strategy, which runs to 2025. The amount requested today will ensure we can meet that commitment. I thank the committee for its time. I look forward to taking questions from members.

I welcome the Minister of State. I thank him for his briefing and opening statement. Are we discussing Vote 27 first? Yes. Last week, the committee heard from stakeholders from Christian Aid, Trócaire and Concern. We have met many others over the years. They say there are so many crises at the moment internationally that there is a problem getting things talked about in the media. It would be beneficial if the Minister of State were to speak about the important work going on in Sudan, the Horn of Africa and North Africa. These crises do not usually make it into the normal mainstream. Will he speak about that?

I thank the Deputy. It is a key point we consistently make. Major conflicts are ongoing in some areas and when something else arises in other regions, they go off the agenda. The situation in Sudan and for refugees in the region is particularly difficult. We are gravely concerned about the situation. Since the outbreak of the war in April, we have emphasised the need for the protection of civilians, maintenance of humanitarian access and the cessation of hostilities. Some 25 million people now require assistance and protection. We want to target the issue of ethnicity and raise the spectre of genocide. In many of these contexts, women and children suffer the most. It is important that we continue to recognise that. Part of our ongoing work is on gender violence in a country where there is a particular bias. The Foreign Affairs Council of the EU initiated calls for sanctions to constrain the conduct of warring partners. In October, a new EU framework was agreed which targets those who attack civilians, deny access to aid and obstruct peace efforts. A problem in some of these countries is to ensure, when we provide funding, that it gets where it is needed and is not diverted somewhere along the process. Recently, I was in a country where we signed an agreement with the host minister for finance which was witnessed by the World Bank.

Ethiopia. It was signed by the World Bank and by me on behalf of the Irish State two weeks ago with its finance minister. We were very pleased that the World Bank was sitting at the table with us. It will oversee supervision of the spending of the funds because we personally could not do it. Those countries need a strong mechanism, normally through an organisation like the World Bank, to ensure the funding we provide is fully utilised where we set out.

The Taoiseach is going to COP28 tomorrow, I think. The Horn of Africa and Kenya have suffered serious droughts due to climate change over the past few years. Now, there is flooding. The dry ground is unable to absorb all that rain. It is another sign of climate change. The Minister of State mentioned the war in Palestine. In his opening statement, he said the "attack by Hamas was one of the worst acts of terrorism that Israel has ever experienced", which it was. The number of displaced people in Gaza has reached 1.7 million.

As more bodies are now being found, some reports suggest the numbers killed could exceed 20,000. This exceeds the 15,000 killed and the 750,000 displaced during the Nakba. Does the Minister of State concede that Israel's brutal onslaught against the civilian population of Gaza amounts to one of the worst acts of terror inflicted on the people of Palestine by Israel?

To conclude on the Horn of Africa, last year we allocated and delivered more than €100 million on behalf of Ireland to that region. That is the scale of funding we are regularly providing to the region through UN bodies, or their EU counterparts, because sometimes our NGOs do not have the ability to deliver those types of projects on the ground.

On Israel's actions, Ireland is one of the few countries that has been exceptionally politically neutral and we condemn the violence on both sides. Not everybody does that. So many people in so many countries take one side or the other but Ireland has been very clear on this issue. We are against violence and, ultimately, we want peace to be restored and the guns to be put down. Sorry, I got diverted from the Deputy's question on the killing of civilians.

Given that 1.7 million figure, and that the number of dead being talked about could exceed 20,000 in Gaza and the West Bank, which exceeds the 750,000 displaced and the 15,000 killed during the Nakba, does the Minister of State concede that this is the worst atrocity the Palestinian people have faced from the Israeli onslaught?

The high number of civilian casualties is deeply shocking and needs to be criticised outright. We have been clear in that. Israel has a right to protect itself but that is not an unfettered right. It must do so in line with international humanitarian law. It is essential that it does that. We continually remind Israel of its international legal obligations. As people know, the International Criminal Court is already examining various matters relating to Israel and Palestine. It has specifically stated that includes events since 7 October. The International Criminal Court is currently examining the particular point the Deputy rightly made together with other issues in other parts of the world. We have insisted that the court be allowed do its work. It has strong sanctions and is the place for these matters to be ultimately adjudicated on. I hope and expect that will happen.

Given the Irish ambassador to Israel was summoned, rebuked and reprimanded over a tweet from the Taoiseach, has the Israeli ambassador to Ireland been called in or summoned for a reprimand regarding what comes from the Israeli Embassy about Ireland funding the tunnels built by Hamas, about the genocide, and about the disrespect shown to our much-loved President?

The Government was extremely surprised by the Israeli reaction to the tweet the Deputy referenced. We have to say that. Our approach, including the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and everybody else who has spoken on this issue, has been very firm. If the entire content of the overall statement that was issued is considered, as well as other statements we have consistently issued, we believe our view and where we stand on these issues is very well known internationally. What was said in a couple of words in a single one-line tweet should not be taken in the way it was. The ambassador, Ms McGuinness, presented a full statement by the Taoiseach in the Israeli foreign ministry yesterday following the hostage release. The Israelis' views on that were definitely made known and have been conveyed back to the Government. Overall, we believe that if anybody is fair and reasonable, to use that phrase, in looking at the comments by the Taoiseach on this issue, both in the full press statement in question and in previous statements, that person would think that, in the round, everything he has said so far has been very reasonable.

Has the Israeli ambassador been summoned for a reprimand?

No. That has not happened.

At this point in time, we do not think there is a particular reason that specifically merits it. However, the one point I will make on all that is we-----

The Israeli ambassador's deputy said that we were funding tunnels built by Hamas.

People say lots of things in difficult situations. While some people might like to have a binary situation of communications or no communications, Ireland's basic position is we have always wanted to maintain diplomatic links.

Seeing as she is still here, there should be communication. She should be called in for a reprimand.

That might be interpreted as a tit-for-tat. Truthfully-----

We should have done it first.

Fine, but we are taking a more principled approach, rather than one based on specific comments or rumours in different situations. We would want very hard evidence before raising-----

There was evidence. There was a tweet that she deleted-----

-----and statements made about the Arab-----

We are not satisfied that the specifics of that have been adequately demonstrated from our point of view.

Has the Israeli ambassador been called in at all to discuss Arab concern around the genocide in Gaza?

There is ongoing communication. The ambassador has been in the Department on a number of occasions and is not-----

How many times a week on average since the war started?

I remind the Deputy that the current Israeli ambassador appears to be far more active in public and political engagement than any of her recent predecessors. In fact, under our private business, we have a request from the ambassador to address the committee. She has appeared at the committee on more than one occasion without the benefit of speaking. I know that she is very keen to engage with us and that she has ongoing engagement with the Department. I do not see a justifiable reason for ongoing questioning of the Minister of State in that regard, when the ambassador herself is active.

I was going to leave it at that. My questions were answered.

I have one other question on Vote 27, but I do not want to have it if-----

The Deputy can take Vote 27 now.

I understand that some Irish aid provided to the West Bank is delivered through the West Bank Protection Consortium. Will the Minister of State indicate whether the consortium will seek compensation in relation to ongoing activities in the West Bank? Houses have exploded there as well.

The straight answer to that is "Yes". We will be looking for compensation. That is the standard modus operandi in these situations. We have done so in the past and will do so again.

Great. I spoke to Deputy Carthy, who is sorry he could not be here, and he raised the issue of compensation at the PAC in 2021. He was told that:

Ireland pursues this issue consistently ... [although] bilaterally and jointly with other donors. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has raised the issue of demolition and confiscation of humanitarian aid and Palestinian property with both the Israeli Ambassador in Dublin and directly with his Israeli counterparts during visits...

Does the Minister of State think that the approach we take on this is successful in disincentivising Israel from destroying Palestinian property?

This is an issue we raise consistently and regularly with Israel. Some of the damage caused is a relatively small proportion of the structures that have been built. However, we do not have powers of enforcement. We have requested and raised the issue of compensation very strongly but we do not have the legal powers to enforce it. That is where the position is.

At that time, my colleague, Deputy Carthy, was informed that no compensation had been paid thus far. Is that still the case?

It is. As I said, we do not have powers of enforcement.

Okay. Given the fact we and the European Union are trading partners with Israel, why do we continue to let Israel away with that?

Ireland continues to trade with most countries around the world-----

I know, but they not paying compensation when they are destroying things. We are giving grants to rebuild what they just seem to destroy. Why do we not look for compensation?

We have sought that but we are not in a position to enforce-----

Why do we not insist on it though as part of our trade agreements?

We should let the Minister of State reply. In fairness, every time he has attempted to reply, he has been interrupted.

I did not mean to be rude to the Minister of State. I apologise.

The Minister of State to reply.

As I mentioned, the amount involved would not be major and we still continue to support the Palestinian people and to provide funds rather than being in a position to deduct or recover some of the funds we provide. As I said, we do not have powers of enforcement. Our position is clear but we do not want that to get in the way of providing the aid we provide on an ongoing basis. We do not want to curtail that or, to some extent, mix the two. The aid we provide should not be confused with that. I have a note here that states, "The Consortium has sought compensation of [more than €1.2 million] in respect of confiscated or demolished assets since 2015." It continues, stating that Ireland provided €300,000 funding to the consortium in 2022 and will provide €400,000 this year under our commitment to reducing the vulnerability of Palestinian communities living in the West Bank. The figure over an eight-year period is an estimated €1.2 million. Our contribution to that was €300,000 last year. That is the maximum estimate we have. We want to continue to provide resources.

I did not mean to be rude or disrespectful to the Minister of State by interrupting. I am sorry about that.

I am concerned about something the Minister of State said. He said he would not want our insisting on compensation to interfere with our ability to provide aid. Does he think it might? What causes him to say that?

Those are two separate issues that should not be conflated. That is all I am saying.

I thank the Minister of State for his time.

Would the Deputy like to put her questions to Vote 28 now?

We can wait. I call Deputy Berry to speak on Vote 27.

I should have reminded the Minister of State at the outset that we are still operating something of a hybrid here as a Covid legacy. I see Deputy Stanton online and it is open to other members to join online. I should have alerted the Minister of State to that at the beginning. My apologies.

I thank the Minister of State for his detailed opening statement as well as the detailed briefing note. It is great we could do the forensic scrutiny long before he came before the committee. It was great that we had all the detailed information in advance.

Not only do I have no objection to the additional €71 million but I welcome it. Ireland has a good surplus and it is in its vital national interest that we provide adequate funding and humanitarian aid where it is needed most. We were expecting it in light of the geopolitical tensions, which are certainly the worst in my lifetime, as well as the humanitarian disasters. I welcome the fact that an additional €71 million is being spent.

The Minister of State mentioned global leadership and Ireland’s role in it. My understanding is that many prime ministers and deputy prime ministers announce and pledge a lot of funding on the various floors of their parliaments but they do not follow through on it, so it is important that Ireland is following through on the commitments made by both the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach, and is doing so promptly. It is also good we are using trusted partners. The Minister of State mentioned the UNHCR, OCHA, Red Cross, Red Crescent and the World Food Programme, which are all reputable organisations. We can be sure, and the public should be aware, that any dollar or euro handed over is being spent appropriately, which is good.

While we are on the matter of embassies, it is good to point out and to commend the diplomatic staff, particularly in the Middle East and the UAE in respect of the recent release of a dual citizen Irish hostage. I think the UAE embassy in particular was engaged from a Qatari point of view. I welcome that.

I might stray into the next Vote for a few brief comments before I head off.

Does the Minister of State mind taking comments on Vote 28?

Okay. I will just finish on that.

Shorten matters.

I will be brief. I thank the Deputy for his comments. He mentioned the work through trusted partners. I appreciate his positive comments on our embassy and diplomatic staff.

On the funding, I can assure the Deputy that in respect of everything that is cleared at this Estimates meeting and cleared hopefully by the Dáil tonight, the cheques will go out in the morning. They are sitting waiting for this meeting to allow us to release the funds. We are up to speed. Tomorrow the chequebook will be taken out or the credit transfer process will begin. Everything is ready to move from tomorrow morning after the Oireachtas clears this payment.

That is good to hear. Ireland is in financial surplus at the moment but we might not always be in surplus. That dovetails nicely to my next point on purchasing residential embassies and ambassadors’ residences abroad. I think that is a good practice. Rent is great for a couple of years because you get to sound out the neighbourhood. However, when the country is as financially rich as it is now, we should bite the bullet and buy these properties. It makes perfect sense over the long term and it is something we could pass on to the future generations that may not be able to afford rent in ten or 15 years’ time the way things are going.

On the Washington property, that is completely appropriate. I agree with the Minister of State that there is a unique relationship between Ireland and the United States. I think the Americans have a special relationship with the UK but they have a unique relationship with Ireland. As they say themselves, they have friends in the UK but they have family in Ireland. Blood is thicker than water. I think that is a good investment. There is an American intern in the Public Gallery, namely, Jack Matthews. He is over here and that underscores the unique relationship we have. I am actually in Washington next week so I will have a look at the residence to make sure it is appropriate, which I presume it is. I look forward to that.

Finally, my last point is on the €7 million profit, if you want to describe it as such, from the Passport Office. I was not aware of that. I think it is a good thing. It shows how in-demand an Irish passport is. I am happy to see that €7 million surplus is being ploughed back into the system and used appropriately.

In summary, I am happy with the additional Estimate and I am happy to support it. I look forward to the cheques being in the post first thing in morning.

I was briefly reminded of the passport services when I saw Ms Penollar with the group. However, she is no longer in that role. I thank her for her work in the Passport Office and more particularly for the work she is now undertaking at a different portfolio within the Department.

I have two brief comments. Regarding the Washington property, negotiations are at a final stage. I have indicated where approximately that is. What I expect will happen is the existing property will go on the market and that will come back in to the Irish coffers in due course. We are seeing the gross outlay at this stage but there will be a net flow back in due course when the existing property is sold. I hope we get a good price for the Irish taxpayer.

Finally, in respect of the additional €7 million from the Passport Office, it is always difficult to predict at the beginning of the year how many passports will be applied for. We had slightly more than 1 million last year and we expect to be almost at 1 million again this year. People may not have expected it to be high because last year was a record after Covid, however, it is strong again this year. That is why we have more funding coming in than we would have anticipated this time last year for the current year as part of the original estimate. It is good to see it.

It is interesting to see a part of the State apparatus that is not an expense; it actually generates income. It is good. Well done to the Minister of State and his team.

I apologise for not being in the room. I echo what Deputy Berry said with respect to our diplomatic service across the world. My experience always has been extraordinarily positive. They are professional, helpful, reactive and proactive.

On the passport issue, I am intrigued by the extra funding that arrived from that. Will the Minister of State give us a breakdown of from where the requests for passports come? Are there any figures on that? They are obviously not all from Ireland. Perhaps the Minister of State has some figures on that for us.

I do not have the figures, so we will prepare a note to send back to the committee specifically on that query. We will be able to put more information in that note than I can give today.

I had the experience in the past few days of trying to get a passport to somebody who was travelling, and that person had to travel to Dublin at the last minute. At least it works, but it would have been better if that person did not have to do that.

Will the Minister of State give us some information on the emigrant support programme? He mentioned supporting younger people and that €3.2 million extra has been requested for that particular programme. Will he give us some indication what that money is being used for and what the programme is doing?

The additional funding primarily relates to the emigrant support programme. We have already received a number of applications under that fund this year. It is a grant system, mainly to the UK. There are some additional areas with which the Deputy will be familiar in the USA and Canada. We want to be in a position to approve those grants straightaway once we get approval from the Oireachtas. We have more applications for funding than we have provided for. That in itself is a good and a bad sign. It is a sign that demand is greater, but it is good that we are also able to respond.

We are finding that emigrants to new areas of emigration such as Australia, Canada and the Middle East are sometimes leaving more by choice. In the past, people had to leave to get a job in London, somewhere else in the UK or in the USA. We are now finding a lot of Irish people going to these countries are better educated than previous generations. With international travel they come back a little more often than would have been the case in the past. They are probably more independent of the Irish State, and good at making their own networks. However, it is more difficult for the Department to have as good a link with those people because it is more fluid than it would have been with more traditional groups of emigrants in the past.

We encourage everybody to get involved. It is informal. Local GAA and Comhaltas clubs are where a lot of Irish people gravitate in their own right. They are the groups we like to keep involved with. Some of the cases we are talking about today would be from some of those organisations that have applied for funding. In the next couple of days, we hope to be able to approve the funding allocations that are on the books and waiting for clearance through the Supplementary Estimate.

That is positive. It might be useful for us to get a detailed note at some stage on the kinds of programmes being supported with this funding. It sounds good but the overall heading of emigrant support programme does not tell us a whole lot. I ask the Minister of State to send us a note at some stage.

I am intrigued by subhead A9, for which I note the Minister of State is not seeking extra funding. The Covid contingency fund of €10 million seems large given that Covid seems to be over. What is that used for?

We will have a list of the grants we are paying out this year, which we will shortly supply it to the committee.

The Covid fund was mainly for staff in the Passport Office. That is where we have the largest concentration of Department of Foreign Affairs staff. We had them working at home for a period, but we are now bringing people back. Staffing in the Passport Office was the main area for which Covid funding was requested.

We will come back to Vote 20, on which Deputy Berry has completed his questions. I will speak briefly on Vote 27. I acknowledge what members have said and the positive relationship they have with the Department and its officials serving both at home and abroad who continue to undertake fine work for and on behalf of Ireland. The Minister of State specifically mentioned humanitarian assistance. I note, in particular, Ireland's contribution in response to the devastating earthquake in Morocco. I had the opportunity to visit Morocco recently and I convey directly to the Minister of State the appreciation and thanks conveyed directly to me by my counterpart in Morocco, and the speakers of both Houses. They appreciate Ireland's response and its willingness to assist in a time of great challenge and difficulty. The Minister of State will be pleased to hear the Irish funding was put to good effect, and the difficult and challenging programme of reconstruction continues in the worst affected area of Morocco. I also acknowledge the work of Ambassador McIntyre and his team on intensifying positive relations between Ireland and Morocco. We saw at first hand the opportunities available for even greater and more positive relationships across economics, culture, politics and tourism. The ambassador does a good job out there.

I stray briefly into Vote 28 to acknowledge that Ambassador McIntyre's premises in Rabat are included in the €5.7 million request, under non-pay and administration costs. This is badly needed. We look forward to early action on the part of the Department to ensure these funds are made available. Premises have been identified and work is ongoing. It will greatly assist our team there if works could be completed to their satisfaction over the coming six to eight months.

I turn briefly to Ukraine under Vote 27. I also see reference to Ukraine under Vote 28. I will pose my question under both headings. If the information is not to hand, I will accept a note for the committee. We note that funding to Ukraine, in particular the €24.8 million in respect of Ireland's contribution to the European Peace Facility. The Minister of State is at pains on all occasions, as is the Tánaiste, to point out that Ireland has abstained from decisions to supply lethal equipment. We do not contribute financially in this area. How do we determine, or how are we satisfied, that the funding we provide goes solely to strictly non-lethal aspects of support? How many, if any, Irish field officers are there? I know the embassy in Kyiv has reopened and we have at least two personnel on the ground, which is welcome. Do we have any other field officers on the ground in Ukraine? I noted there is an OSCE representative but I do not think that falls strictly under the Department. Maybe the information is not available to hand. Does Ireland still have OSCE representatives active in eastern Ukraine?

On Ireland's contribution to the UN system, in particular peacekeeping, I welcome the Tánaiste's recent statement that legislation will be brought forward under what we described as the triple lock to amend Ireland's participation. I welcome that change and wonder about the timeframe. Is it envisaged that legislation will be enacted in the lifetime of this Government?

Finally, on Gaza and the funding Ireland provides to UNRWA, total funding this year is €18 million. I note it will support the core functions of UNRWA's staff, its operations and the procurement of materials. Will the Minister of State give the committee an idea as to the transparency regime, or transparency proofing, undertaken to ensure there are no middle agencies or no filtering of any of this funding beyond what might be described as the core functions he mentioned?

The Minister of State mentioned that UNRWA has seen the loss of more than 100 of its staff, all of whom were Palestinians. How does the Department manage to ensure a level of proofing in order that the Irish people can be guaranteed that none of the funding is diverted from the core issues and functions? I say this particularly having regard to media reports on a certain lack of objectivity on behalf of certain sections within UNRWA.

I will ask my final question now in regard to Vote 28 and the Minister of State can reply when we reach that Vote. It is in respect of the new premises and missions he outlined in Manila, Frankfurt, Rabat, Manchester, Toronto, Miami and Lyon. I again raise the situation in Western Australia where, in the city of Perth alone, there are 16,000 Irish-born residents and in the state there are more than 235,000 Australians who claim Irish ancestry. While I acknowledge that the honorary consul is doing a very good job, I ask that consideration be given in the context of proposed new missions to a consulate in Western Australia, having regard to the distance between Perth and the east coast cities where we have honorary consuls. The information might not be immediately to hand because it does not refer to the spending of money this year but I ask again that consideration be given to siting a consulate in Perth in order to service the needs of Irish interests in that area, not only from a consular point of view but also from an economic and political point of view, having regard to the very positive relations between Ireland and Australia.

I thank the Chair for his very good comments and remarks. He mentioned his visit to Morocco and that he found great acknowledgement and appreciation of the effort Ireland has made. It is good to hear that being said here at home. He also mentioned the great work by Ambassador McIntyre out there.

Our mission is to increase the number of embassies we have around the world. The most recent one was in Senegal in western Africa and, prior to that, in Morocco. We are working on an ongoing basis to increase our representation in as many countries as we can.

Ukraine was mentioned and a question was asked about how many people we have there. We have a maximum of four staff who are on rotation.

The triple lock was also mentioned. The commitment is to commence the preparation of the legislative proposals immediately, with a view to proposals being brought to the Government in due course. There is no exact timetable on that at this point but the effort is being made to work on that legislation to bring it to the Government. No time limit has been put on it either.

The important issue of Gaza was raised, as was the funding that is going there and how we ensure that, through the various agencies we are dealing with, it gets to where it should. One important point to make is that UNRWA is one of the most audited organisations in the world because people want to ensure precisely what the Chair says. We have done our own verification in recent years. I was very pleased with the result, even though it did not come across as positive at the beginning. When the issue of funding for Gaza arose in the European Commission, concerns were raised by some people about where the funding was going and whether some of it was being diverted. Just last week, a report was completed at EU level and presented to the Commission which showed that there was no evidence whatsoever in regard to any funds being diverted to purposes other than what they are designed for. Our only request as a result of that is that there would be no new conditions attached to the programmes the Commission is satisfied are working well. That is more of a political issue because unwarranted conditions could be used as a mechanism to stall funding. We want the funding to continue. The European Commission has given a clean report on that topic as recently as last week.

I completely take the Chair's point about Perth. Western Australia is a long way from Canberra and Sydney. It is not on a list but it is being talked about, with a view to being considered down the road. We will take on board what the Chair has said. Given that it is so far away from Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra, the other cities that people know, there is a reasonable case to be made for that possibility to be examined by the Department.

I thank the Minister of State. That completes the discussion on Vote 27. We have satisfied Deputies Berry and Stanton on Vote 28. Deputy Cronin wishes to raise issues pertaining to Vote 28.

Passports were brought up. Senator Ó Donnghaile, who is a member of the joint committee, would kill me if I did not ask about a passport office for Belfast. Is there any sign of that or is the Department looking for premises?

I am sorry. I missed that question. I was distracted.

Passports were mentioned among the earlier questions. I know Senator Ó Donnghaile is not on this committee but he is a member of the joint committee. He is out sick at the moment. He would kill me if he knew passports were brought up and I did not mention a passport office for Belfast. Is there any plan for that at all?

There is a development in regard to MLAs in Northern Ireland having access, similar to Oireachtas Members, for public representatives.

That would save me a lot of work.

Yes, it is a very good system. I personally visited the call centre in Limerick last year and the calls were coming in at a rate of knots. While I was there, the clock was showing queries increasing and there was a separate facility on the screens showing queries coming in from public representatives. The centre was very active. In 95% of cases where there are difficulties, it is always found that something was wrong with the application from day one.

On the question about a new passport office, first, the Irish passport is ranked as one of the best in the world in terms of security, as evidenced by the fact that America allows for preclearance leaving Ireland from both Dublin and Shannon airports. The US only provides that facility to a handful of airports in Europe. It is because of the integrity of the Irish passport. Part of that is due to the very tight centralised system to maintain the passport's integrity.

I do not have the figure but 99% of all applications are now made online. Very few people call to the office in Dublin to make inquiries. More than 90% of applications are online. I visited the office and I was shocked at how few members of the public feel the need to walk into the office any more.

The online application system is brilliant. My son ordered his passport on a Tuesday and he got it on a Thursday. It is unbelievable.

Yes. The renewals are outstanding. There are no plans to open other offices. People have asked for other areas to be considered as well but new offices are not required given that more than 90% of people are doing it online. Three years ago, the footfall was high but that has fallen away now. There are no immediate plans for a new office. We think the system has improved by leaps and bounds in recent years in terms of efficiency, so there are no plans at this stage to open an additional office in Belfast. The line for public representatives and MLAs to have direct access, similar to Oireachtas Members, is helping the situation.

Yes, it is. Is there a stated policy on renting embassies around the world instead of purchasing them? I agree it might be a good idea to buy now.

Initially, we rent in nearly every place because it is the quickest way of getting in and we can see if the premises are suitable.

Ultimately, we like to purchase more because it is better in the long term. We have had a good discussion in Washington. It may mean selling the old building in due course if it is no longer of suitable scale or fit for purpose. We are involved in 177 premises worldwide, 40 of which we own. The Deputy can see the proportion. It is over 20%. Our preference is to own them but that is a big capital outlay. Where we see a good opportunity that makes rigorous good sense and is approved in terms of public sector financial guidelines and by the Department of public expenditure and reform, we purchase, but it is only in those cases.

Why is the accommodation in Colombia coming out of the international co-operation Vote, while Washington DC is coming out of the Department’s Vote?

The reason it is coming from Vote 27 is the vast majority of funding we spend in Colombia goes through Vote 27 and that is why the funding for the premises there would tend to come from that. I have been in some of the countries I have been privileged to visit in Africa this year. I found the majority of embassy staff are directly involved in the projects on the ground. In some countries, much is done through NGOs. In others, we do not have a good NGO presence. Sometimes 50% of the embassy work is directing projects on the ground. There is often a case to be made that we are more a humanitarian, relief and overseas development agency than an embassy. In some countries, it is a combination of both. Because the majority of the funding is for overseas aid, that is where this building comes out of at this stage.

I ask about Ireland’s €24.8 million contribution to the European Peace Facility - there is no irony in that name. We make a contribution for non-lethal support, mainly de-mining, but we also do small arms training. Are we training Ukrainian soldiers in explosives? I believe that to de-mine an area, you have to know how to make a mine. Are we training them in how to make a mine as well? That would not be non-lethal.

I take the point that you have to have knowledge in an area before you can deal with the area. As stated previously, the funding is directed exclusively to non-lethal support in line with the programme for Government, and to supply medical equipment, food, personal protective equipment and fuel. Through the European Union Military Assistance Mission in support of Ukraine, the Defence Forces have delivered training modules in tactical combat, casualty care, de-mining and mine clearance and drill instruction and training. The Defence Forces are planning other modules and identifying opportunities for support.

As regards the funding for the coming year, €30 million for this year was allocated in the budget for the support of Ukraine and to address food security and humanitarian needs.

The Deputy is right that we provide funding for casualty care, de-mining and mine clearance. Regardless of the level of knowledge people have before that, we are not funding people on how to lay mines, but in how to clear and neutralise mines when they locate them.

They would become experts in EODs and IEDs as part of that training, would they not?

I think I am making it clear what our funding is directed to.

Programme C includes €11.1 million for assessed contributions to the UN for Ireland’s share of peacekeeping costs. So far we have contributed 2,700 Defence Forces personnel to the UN Disengagement Observer Force mission in the Golan Heights in the past ten years. Will the Minister of State outline the benefits to Ireland and its Defence Forces and to the region of that mission?

That is a case that is ongoing for some time and I did not bring a note for the Supplementary Estimate on that topic. We will send an information note to the committee.

In the note, will the Minister of State state whether he considers it prudent, financially and diplomatically, that the mission is coming to an end?

We will address that in the note we send back.

We are participating in that mission as opposed to contributing to the battle groups the EU favours. I do not agree with that. I would prefer us to be engaged in the UN mission, rather than in the EU battle groups. I ask the Minister of State to outline the benefits he believes we achieved from those ten years.

The note to the committee will cover that. I do not have detailed information on that to hand.

The Minister of State was talking about passports. The Passport Office has a fantastic service, way better than previously now that it is online. I stress the need to avoid people having to travel to the Passport Office. There are emergencies and so on but any way a person can be facilitated and not have to take a day off work to travel to Dublin with all that entails would be great. If that was stressed as a policy of the office, it would enhance it further.

The Minister of State mentioned preclearance for Dublin and Shannon. We should start talking at some stage, given the pressures on Dublin Airport, of having preclearance for Cork as well, maybe with a view to flights from Cork across the Atlantic.

The Chairman mentioned Perth. I think it is the most remote city in the world and the furthest from any other city, but there is another city which is quite remote and covers a huge amount of territory, namely, Calgary in Alberta. We have fantastic staff in Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa and so on but the centre of Canada is vast. There is much industry there. I think Calgary is the third largest city in Canada and we do not have a footprint there. I ask the Minister of State and his officials to look at that. I mentioned in the enterprise committee that Enterprise Ireland and IDA might look at that vast area in the centre of Canada. People there do their best and work hard but a footprint on the ground might be helpful.

I ask the Minister of State to comment on his own brief of diaspora affairs. We have emigrant support programmes and then diaspora affairs. Will he outline what is happening with the diaspora and what positive work he is doing with the €1.1 million they are getting?

Will he give us an update on what the €2 million International Fund for Ireland will be used for?

I appreciate the points the Deputy makes. On the €2 million requested for the International Fund for Ireland, that is a fund and other countries contribute to it. We expect the programme costs will amount to approximately €20 million during the term of the strategy, which runs to 2025. There is a call for further funding just now, as opposed to next year. It is a matter of timing. The overall envelope has been set out from now until then. It is a matter of which year the payment goes through.

I take the point on Perth and central Canada. We opened offices in Toronto and Vancouver recently. When I was in Canada, the point was well made to me and officials about the rest of Canada and the Deputy has made it clearly as well.

In relation to our work generally on the diaspora, most of our funding goes to where Irish people traditionally went to. Much of it goes to programmes in Irish centres, whether London, Manchester, New York or other cities.

When we go there, the first port of call for a lot of Irish politicians is to meet the people who went out there generations ago. We have not had significant funding directed towards the new Irish emigrants, because they are more self-sufficient and better able to look after themselves. They are better able to find their own way and they are still young, agile and in the workforce. The bulk of our emigrant support programme goes to the traditional areas. We will be clearing a list of grants for where all that funding is going after this meeting. We will be happy to supply that full list to the committee.

Does the Department have a policy for reaching out to the diaspora, as other countries do? This would include people of Irish descent who may be interested in investing in or contributing to Ireland in some way.

In all of our visits abroad, we meet people from both sides of the equation and it works both ways. Even though we schedule meetings with diaspora groups, Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland regularly ask us in the Department to meet Irish businesses that want to do business in the countries we are visiting. IDA Ireland also asks us to meet its clients that are interested in investing back in Ireland. There is a home connection with Ireland, as the Deputy will be aware. Some of the big companies that have invested in Ireland over the years have done so because somebody senior in that company has an Irish connection. We do that and IDA Ireland has identified most of those people. This is not the ordinary Irish diaspora but people who are in a position to influence investment policies in their companies and they are well known to IDA Ireland, and to encourage them back here. Any time our officials or Ministers are abroad, they are asked to meet those people to encourage them.

I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending the committee and for dealing, in such a comprehensive manner, with the observations and questions of members..

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