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COMMITTEE of PUBLIC ACCOUNTS díospóireacht -
Thursday, 10 Feb 2000

Vol. 2 No. 5

Report on Value for Money Examination - Development of the National Roads Network.

Mr. M. Tobin, Chief Executive, National Roads Authority, called and examined.

Mr. Purcell

The Operational Programme for Transport was a major programme of investment in transport infrastructure to be funded jointly by the EU and the Irish Exchequer. Under the programme a total of £1.2 billion was provided for improvements to the national roads system in the period 1994 to 1999. The start of the programme coincided with the establishment of the National Roads Authority, which operates under the aegis of the Department. The role of the authority is to ensure the provision of a safe and efficient network of national roads.

My examination was undertaken to establish how well the authority managed the roads programme. It also sought to find out how well the authority evaluates the impact of the substantial investment for which it is responsible. The examination focused mainly on what happened in the four years from 1994 to 1997, inclusive, but the emphasis in the report is on strengthening procedures and systems to improve the effectiveness of investment in roads in the future.

It is clear to all of us who use the roads that substantial investment in national roads in the past ten years has had a significant impact on the quality of Irish roads. In many cases major bottlenecks have been removed from the national roads network, freeing the flow of traffic and reducing travel times on improved sections. However, main problems still remain and traffic is growing more quickly than had been anticipated as a by-product of economic growth. Continued investment in the national roads network will be required to meet the needs of the economy.

The committee will be aware that the national development plan published last year envisages a significant expansion in the level of investment in national roads, almost £4.7 billion has been earmarked for spending in the years up to 2006. For this reason, ensuring maximum effectiveness of the investment remains a high priority. Up to 1994 roads projects were generally carried out in response to local initiatives and to meet local needs. The establishment of the National Roads Authority and the move to an integrated roads programme has resulted in a more strategic and effective management of the investment taking place. However, there is room for improvement in a number of areas and I will touch briefly on those.

For example, I found that the expected cost of many of the projects undertaken increased substantially from what was estimated at the start of the programme. The increases were much greater than could be explained by inflation and frequently arose because of the poor estimation of costs at the start of planning or because major changes in the scope and quality of projects were introduced at the design stage.

In the best of circumstances planning and design of road improvement projects is a lengthy process. Despite the establishment of the authority, significant delays can occur because decision making is still fragmented across a number of organisations at central and local government levels and because of the complex network of policies and procedures which have to be accommodated. There are also other matters such as environmental factors and objections to certain road works.

The committee will note that the expected impact of road improvement work on the four strategic corridors was specified before the investment programme started. For example, the programme was expected to result, by the end of 1999, in a reduction of an aggregate 204 minutes in the combined average journey time on the four strategic corridors. I note from a review report recently published by the authority that it estimates that the total time saving achieved in the period 1994 to 1999 will be 189 minutes. This figure seems impressive but I should point out that it represents time savings on the improved sections of the roads and should not be regarded as the achieved savings for end to end journey times. Everyone has experienced situations where improved sections of roads have led to bottlenecks and delays at hitherto free stretches of those roads.

I suggested in my report that better management information is required within the NRA to establish or to check that, at both the individual project level and the overall programme level, the intended impacts are achieved. I also suggested that the NRA should consider benchmarking its performance against those of its counterparts in other countries. Given the scale of expenditure envisaged, the £4.7 billion to which I referred earlier, for the national roads programme in the coming years, real improvements in systems are essential if we are to aspire to maximising the value of our investment in roads and contributing as much as possible to sustained economic and social development.

Would Mr. Tobin like to make a preliminary statement?

Mr. Tobin

I would and I have brought copies for the Chairman and Members to peruse.

At the outset I wish to put on record the authority's welcome for the report. It would be of great value at any time but it is of particular benefit and relevance to us in our current strategic planning for the 2000-2006 national roads programme.

Before addressing the detail and conclusions of the report, I would like to draw attention to some specific recent developments and initiatives in the authority which are of relevance, in an organisational planning and policy context, to the matters under consideration.

During 1998 management consultants undertook a review of management and financial control systems in the authority. The findings identified a need for a more proactive approach to the management of national road projects undertaken by local authorities and for an integrated management information system, as well as more reliable cost information and reporting.

The review recommended a new management structure including the creation of a head of project management and engineering position with responsibility, among other matters, for establishing a project management approach and support systems and ensuring management of national roads projects undertaken by local authorities based on best modern practice, including risk assessment. Further recommendations included the appointment of a senior project manager with responsibility for project planning and reporting These have been implemented.

The authority commissioned a national roads needs study which was completed in July 1998 and which identified the road types appropriate for each segment of the inter-urban road system to cater for projected traffic flows over a 20 year horizon to the year 2019 and to achieve an average inter-urban speed of at least 80 kilometres per hour. It costs the improvement works at £6.1 billion - at 1996 prices - over a 20 year period with a significant element of front loading. The study provides a comprehensive basis for policy decisions on the development of the network.

The national development plan, published recently, provides for a total allocation of £4.7 billion for national roads in the 2000-06 period and indicates a strategy of development, in their entirety, of key interurban routes by 2006 to motorway or dual carriageway standard. The routes are from Dublin to the Border, Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford. Improvements are also identified on routes to the north west, on the western corridor, in the south and east. Completion of the Dublin C ring and the Dublin Port Access Tunnel is also indicated. Likewise, a selection of national secondary routes are identified for improvement.

I turn specifically to the detail and conclusions of the VFM report. The Committee will be aware that the NRA was established in 1994. Its assigned primary task is the provision of an efficient and safe network of national roads - for the most part the work is actually carried out by local authorities under the supervision of the NRA. Chapter 2 of the report deals with the impacts of the National Roads Development Programme 1994-1999 and with the achievement of the impact targets resulting from the expenditure. As the Comptroller and Auditor General said, bearing in mind the timing of the report, it concentrates mainly on the period 1994-97. To briefly set the 1994-99 roads development programme in context, it provided a total funding of £1,099 million in 1994 prices for national primary roads and £114 million for national secondary roads.

Seventy per cent of the improvement on national primary roads was to be concentrated on four strategic corridors linking the main centres of population. On the national secondary routes concentration was on a small number of routes which were important for economic development. The detail of the programme of work, including identification of specific road schemes and output indicators, such as time savings, were agreed between the Government and the European Commission and set out in the Operational Programme for Transport, 1994-1999. Finalisation of the programme coincided roughly with the establishment of the NRA in January 1994. The programme was of particular significance to the authority in that it established the policy to be pursued over the next six years in relation to the development of national roads - in other words our work plan up the end of 1999. As regards the various expenditure targets set in the programme, we met them all in full.

We accept the analysis of draw down of EU funds in the report. In essence and for the reasons stated, all available EU funding was drawn down. However, the proportion of resources actually provided by the Exchequer was higher than estimated when the operational programme was originally prepared in 1993-4. At that time the Government expected to receive over 70% of funding from the EU, but in the event, only 60% was obtained. A factor in this regard was the Commission's decision to increase the proportion of Cohesion Fund assistance for environmental projects from what had been expected to be 40% to 50% and that was at the expense of the funding available for transport in general, including national road projects. The principal outputs identified were (a) an increase in the extent of the network delivering a target level of service which corresponds to an average interurban speed of at least 80 kph and is referred to as level of service D, and (b) specified journey times savings arising, obviously, from the completion of individual projects on the network.

As far as level of service is concerned the report mentions the road needs study finding that in 1995 91% of primary roads and 94% of secondary roads were found to provide the target level of service D or better. However, the study also concluded that, without investment and with increasing traffic volumes, around 20% of the primary road network would fall below level of service D by 1999. The report recognises that the needs study has provided a methodology for monitoring improvement in level of service achieved by expenditure. The point is correctly made that because traffic is currently growing faster than anticipated - indeed by an average of some 8% each year between 1995 and 1998 compared with the 3% anticipated in the operational programme - improvements in level of service may not be as great as predicted. A comprehensive IT database of the national road network was developed and as it is updated for ongoing improvements and annual traffic counts it will track improvements over the network.

The target journey time reduction for the 1994-99 programme on the four strategic corridors was 204 minutes. A recent examination has updated the VFM report prediction of 175 minutes and indicates that 189.4 minutes of time savings were achieved by the end of 1999, or about 93% of target, with the full 204 minutes to be achieved early in the new programme. The principal output from expenditure on the next programme will most likely be kilometres of motorway/dual carriageway to be provided on the key interurban routes and the extent of improvements to the remainder of the national road network. Specific outputs and performance indicators in this regard will be determined by Government in the context of the forthcoming economic and social infrastructure operational programme which will be agreed with the European Commission. The authority commits itself to the adaptation of an appropriate methodology to monitor the relevant output and performance indicators.

In Chapter 3, concerning evaluation of road improvement projects, the report points out that priority should be given to road investment proposals likely to yield the greatest economic benefit, which is principally a function of time savings and scheme cost. The authority accepts this comment, particularly in the context of prioritising multiple disparate schemes. We reiterate that the NDP specifically requires end-to-end completion of certain key interurban routes and identifies a significant number of other national roads for substantial improvement. In the circumstances we have a primary responsibility to deliver on those elements of Government policy for the development of the network of national roads.

The NRA will carry out an economic evaluation of all major new schemes and our methodology will be kept in line with current best practice. However, we see no internationally recognised means for including environmental costs and benefits within this exercise, as suggested in the report. However, we will monitor international trends in this area and introduce changes as and when appropriate and possible. We confirm adherence to the Department of Finance benchmark rate of 5% as a threshold level of internal rate of return which, apart from exceptional circumstances, projects must reach. The NRA is in the course of establishing and will maintain a database of expected benefits from individual projects and will monitor and evaluate project outturns.

As regards prioritisation by economic ranking we point out that it needs to be weighed in conjunction with other factors, including specifically regional development and access considerations. Finally on this issue, we acknowledge the requirement for a system which will record project economic indicators and monitor changes as the scheme progresses. Such a system is substantially in place and it will be fully operational by May 2000.

The report outlines the phases and timescales involved in getting a major road project from concept to start of construction, including completion of relevant statutory consultation and approval procedures. We recognise that the current five to eight year initiation to site timescale mentioned in the report must be reduced significantly. Through effective project management, risk management and in anticipation of early enactment of the Planning and Development Bill, 1999, we have set ourselves an objective of reducing this timescale to three and a half years. Apart from significant implications for our level of service and time saving targets, this improved timescale for delivery has obvious implications for project specific efficiencies.

The report draws specific attention to a number of agencies involved in the decision making stages of road projects. In this context we issued in 1998 national roads project management guidelines, which identify the stages and streamline the processes involved in scheme development and also ensure earliest possible consultation with the public, relevant agencies and other bodies as part of our strategy to achieve greater efficiency in our procedures and those of our local authority partners. The objective is to reduce the value for money risk mentioned in the report.

The report next turns to the issue of control of project costs and duration. It points out, correctly, that as far as possible the NRA arranges for local authorities to implement improvement and maintenance works and it emphasises the need for the authority's systems to monitor the extent to which its projects are delivered within the expected budgets and time frames. The report mentions steps taken since 1997 to improve such systems and I advise the Committee of a further upgrade of our procedures to a full project management system, taking account of experience elsewhere, particularly in Scotland and Denmark. This system is to be used by local authorities, design offices, site offices and the authority itself.

Some relevant features of the system are that it will allow the NRA to issue an agreed brief for a specific project with overall time and money indicated in line with NRA multi-annual programme budget. Progress and costs will be updated against base lines. Progress on the NRA programme will be updated by the system. Historical data will be used to form templates for costs and programme for future schemes. Unit costs and typical implementation times will be generated by the system. It will be proactive in alerting management to the current state of a project and flag where corrective action is necessary. In 1999 the authority also appointed two audit technicians who check the integrity of the financial information supplied to us by local authorities.

Chapter 5 of the report deals with strategic planning for roads development and the key influences are identified. These include the importance of the establishment of the NRA, in 1994, to the strategic development of the network, the NRA needs study, faster than anticipated traffic growths, lower levels of EU funding and the advent of public/private partnerships. In addition, the recent national development plan has set the framework for the operational programme for economic and social infrastructure and the NRA plan which is now being prepared will reflect the strategy outlined in the NDP.

Our intention to pilot design/build schemes for project procurement is mentioned in the report and I wish to confirm that two such schemes are now under way at the N25 at Kilmacthomas, County Waterford, and the N9 at Moone/Timolin, County Kildare. A third scheme, the N25 Youghal by-pass, which is being progressed in a similar manner, is currently out to tender. The advantage seen for design/build over traditional procurement is greater certainty of outturn costs albeit balanced against higher initial tenders.

Turning to the appendices to the report, we accept the comments in appendix A regarding the concept of journey time savings and we are now geared to capture statistics of the type suggested. With regard to appendix B, we confirm that the needs study data base, continuously updated to take account of new improvements and increasing traffic, will allow us monitor the extent of improvements on the network and their implications for traffic. Appendix C describes and deals with the methodology used for economic evaluation. As I have already said, we will seek to keep our methodology in line with current best practice having regard to my earlier comment in relation to environmental costs and benefits.

Appendix D deals with project costs. There is a slight note of criticism here. The report itself refers to unit kilometre costs ranging from £1.6 million to £6.8 million for dual carriageways. The two projects upon which these costings are based are the Naas Road project which emerges as costing £1.6 million per kilometre which entailed widening of the existing carriageways and the North Road Finglas project which emerges as costing £6.8 million per kilometre which evolved the construction of a completely new dual carriageway in an urban environment with high land costs, accommodation works, difficult working conditions and so on. Clearly there is a great disparity between the two schemes as regards the scale and nature of the work undertaken and this accounts for the difference in unit costs. In this context I would point to our new integrated project management system, which will give a database of unit costs reflecting different conditions encountered on our schemes.

In conclusion, I wish to assure the committee that the report's observations and conclusions are being dealt with in a serious and committed manner. We hope that the steps already taken, which I have described, as well as those currently in train, will reassure the committee and the Comptroller and Auditor General as to the authority's determination and ability to apply strengthened project management procedures. These will be used to good effect in the context of our planning and delivery of the national road policy objectives of the National Development Plan, 2000-2006.

The report cites a range of costs per kilometre for motorways and dual carriageways. However, the upper cost for a dual carriageways is even greater than that for a motorway. The range for a motorway is £3.2 million to £6.1 million per kilometre and the range for a dual carriageway is between £1.6 million and £6.8 million per kilometre. How can a dual carriageway cost more than a motorway per kilometre?

Mr. Tobin

It depends on conditions. The Chairman cited the comparison - the lower end of the cost of a dual carriageway is £1.6 million per kilometre and the upper end is £6.8 million. As I said already, the lower cost reflects the cost of widening the Naas dual carriageway to three lanes in either direction in a situation where the vast bulk of the land was in the ownership of the local authority - literally a lane was added in each direction. That is compared to the Finglas by-pass at an urban greenfield site with high land cost and high accommodation works.

Presumably they can desegregate acquisition costs from construction costs.

Mr. Tobin

Of course we can.

Do you have any comparative figures which take out acquisition costs?

Mr. Tobin

I do not have them with me.

Could we have figures which take out the acquisition costs? Give us the acquisition costs but separate them and give us a comparison of construction costs only.

Mr. Tobin

We can certainly do that. However, I would make the point again that I can see no benefit in anyone making a comparison between adding a lane on the outside of the dual carriageway to Rathcoole and building a totally new dual carriageway at Finglas.

I accept that. To make a sensible comparison, we need to examine adding two lanes to either side of a dual carriageway. What is the lowest range of construction costs?

Mr. Tobin

Apropos that, we recently asked the same consultants who developed our road needs study to produce information of that type, in other words, to give us standard construction costings for different road types. We have that and we can certainly provide it to the committee.

The Comptroller and Auditor General states in his report that since 1987, the NRA has taken steps to improve its cost control systems. Will you take me through that again? What improvements have been brought about?

Mr. Tobin

I mentioned in my opening statement that the posts of head of project management and engineering and senior project manager dealing with scheme preparation and monitoring are in place. The level of reporting required from local authorities has been enhanced and there is a continuing monitoring operation taking place. In the context of returns from local authorities, two audit technicians have been sanctioned. They regularly visit local authorities to ensure the accuracy of returns. This gives us a high level of confidence that we are receiving accurate and timely reports. Similarly, our engineering personnel have a more focused position regarding project ownership in dealing with schemes in individual local authorities.

What steps are being taken to avoid projects being delayed?

Mr. Tobin

As I indicated, as a general rule, it would not be abnormal for it to take five to eight years from the point where someone takes the view that it would be useful to undertake a particular scheme and having a contractor on site. First, we would attempt to bring the project through the statutory procedures as quickly as possible and to minimise difficulties at that stage. We are asking local authorities, who are co-operating, to consult the public as early as possible and to have the fullest possible consultation. This clearly gives a local authority an opportunity to become aware of issues exercising the public and those from whom property is being acquired for the purpose of building the project. We would hope that many of those difficulties would be ironed out so that,by the time we reach statutory procedures, the issues would be minimal.

In setting that target of reducing the timeframe to about three and a half years we are assuming the benefits of the proposals in the Planning and Development Bill which transfers the task of determining CPOs, motorway schemes and environmental impact assessments from the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to An Bord Pleanála. There is also an objective that An Bord Pleanála would determine these procedures within an 18 week period following the time normally allowed for objections. If that can be achieved - and we hope it can - it will also save time. Work which heretofore would have been delayed until the completion of statutory procedures is also being done in parallel.

Traditionally, it would have been the practice to await a ministerial decision on a motorway scheme of CPO before progressing the scheme to detailed design and preparation of contract documents. The time lapse between the preparation by a local authority of its CPO motorway scheme and a ministerial determination was a lean time. Nothing happened to progress the scheme and that would be the case as a general rule. Now, as a matter of standard practice, we allow the scheme to progress to detailed design and preparation of contract documents while the statutory procedure is in train. That means we are generally ready to seek tenders a short time after a determination. There is a small risk involved in so doing because the Minister could decide to annul or not approve a CPO. We do not believe that risk to be enormous. Likewise, the Minister, in making decisions, is liable to require certain variations to the scheme. However, again we believe that the changes will tend to be relatively small and do not involve much additional work in terms of finalising the design and contract documents once we have a ministerial decision. By combining all those elements, our objective is to reduce the timescale from initiation of a scheme to a contractor being on site to something like three and a half years.

From eight years?

Mr. Tobin

A number of years ago, five to eight years would have been normal.

The best measurement I can use on aspects of the report and the response from Mr. Tobin is to examine a few specifics. I am most familiar with the Cork to Dublin route and I would have an interest in two aspects - value for money and planning. Perhaps Mr. Tobin could enlighten me.

For the past few years I have travelled past a situation on the Cork to Dublin route which fascinates me. It is where I exit from the N7 on to the N8 on the Portlaoise bypass. About a quarter of a mile of semi-permanent road dividers is laid out and has been for a number of years, and because of that, no one can use the carriageway it fences off. People must drive on to the main lane of the N7. Why? How much was spent on the roadworks behind these dividers? Will the section, which is a major road section, ever be used? Who is responsible? What happens if there is an accident?

On the value for money aspect, I am waiting for finance for projects in the Cork region and I find it hard to accept that this money could be tied up for several years. Why was the road built, not used and what is it about?

Mr. Tobin

The initial design at that interchange involved not alone the use of a roundabout but, in addition, for traffic leaving the N7 and intending to go to Cork, the intention was that there would be a freeflow slip, as it is referred to. In other words, a person using it would be able to leave the main line of the Dublin to Limerick road and join the main line of the Dublin to Cork road without having to go through the roundabout. The bulk of the work required was to put that freeflow in place. However, as work progressed, a local landowner took issue with the idea of his having to join the N8 close to the end of that slip road. It was assumed he would be agreeable to a service road through another person's property. He was not, and when he was, the other person was not prepared to sell, so there is a problem for which we must accept responsibility. Our expectation is that, in the context of further work along that route, a CPO will be prepared which we hope will resolve the issue by way of providing land for the service road for this individual. We accept that to open the slip road at present would constitute an unsafe practice. For that reason, we do not propose to do so.

There is no roundabout. I have to exit onto the national——

Is the Deputy talking about coming to Dublin?

Going from Dublin to Cork.

There is not the same problem.

I must go on to the main lane of the N7 going south. There is no roundabout there. I must come up the slip road and keep an eye out to my right. It is very dangerous.

It goes straight from a dual carriageway into a single lane?

That is right. It is no advertisement for the National Roads Authority. Perhaps we could get a note on the background to that.

Mr. Tobin

Certainly.

The Comptroller and Auditor General's report states that no base evaluation or timing was carried out for the national routes. If people tell me they can improve travelling times on routes by a certain number of minutes, against what do they evaluate that? I assure Mr. Tobin that it now takes me a good half hour longer to travel from Cork to Dublin or vice versa in 2000 than it took in 1997, and that is allowing five minutes for Abbeyleix. I did not believe it was true that no monitoring was conducted on previous times on these routes. It now takes me a half hour longer to travel from Cork to Dublin. How will Mr. Tobin assure me I am gaining time if no measurements were taken before improvements were made?

Mr. Tobin

There are a few points in that. First, one must examine the target set in the operational programme of a saving of 204 minutes on the four strategic corridors. That was set in the context of the operational programme and represented the accumulation of time savings estimated from the various projects to be undertaken in the course of the programme. The Comptroller and Auditor General makes the valid point that, while a certain stretch of road may be improved and savings may be delivered in that narrow section of the network, it may well be that it is running into a bottleneck further on and that, on an end to end basis, those time savings may not be achieved. That is a reality, but in terms of monitoring the current operational programme, we monitor the targets as set. It is in that context we say, as against the 204 minutes, we have achieved 189 minutes at the end of 1999.

No base figures were available for end-to-end journey times prior to the operational programme. As part of the technical assistance of the programme, it was decided to examine what options existed to enable us to have some assessment made of end-to-end journey times and, beyond that, to allow us to monitor how they were progressing. The decision was taken that this should be done by way of a simulation, which is a piece of information technology. Routes are plotted in with details of route widths, constraints, etc., factored in, and that can simulate the travel times end to end on individual routes. We have that technology available. I stress that we are not fully geared in terms of man power to make enormous use of it. That will come reasonably quickly in the context of some new appointments we have had approved and for which we are in the process of recruiting. The reality is that no baseline figures for end to end travel were available to us prior to this. We now have the technology to do it and we will obviously use it in years to come.

It may be late in the day to talk of a proper national motorway, but what is intended for the four strategic inter-urban routes, especially the Cork to Dublin route? Is it intended to bypass the bypasses and have we wasted some efforts? What exactly is intended? Will there be a new route in certain areas? How does the NRA intend going about it?

Mr. Tobin

We have been told in the recently published national development plan that it is a Government position that the link from Dublin to Cork is to be developed to either motorway or dual carriageway standard. Current planning will see us going to motorway standard as far as Portlaoise. My assumption - and this needs to be looked at in the context of traffic flows - is that beyond Portlaoise the link to Cork will be of dual carriageway standard. I am not sure we will be bypassing any existing bypasses. Glanmire is there and I do not see that changing and we will have to look at anything planned along the road.

You are talking about dual carriageways of virtual motorway standard with overhead bridges?

Mr. Tobin

Again, that will depend on the traffic volumes there. If there are high volumes clearly that standard will be called into play, but if there are lower volumes perhaps lesser standards of dual carriageway with some grade junctions will be involved. It depends very much on the volume of traffic which will be using the individual sections of road. As a general principle, the announcement in the national development plan was that we would have motorway or dual carriageway over the entirety of that link.

At the end of the route, more or less, Mr. Tobin will be familiar with the situation and cannot be very proud of it. It is not a great advertisement. He might explain that around the southern side of Cork we have a major four-lane carriageway, the newly constructed south ring road. It is an excellent road and does a great job, but it has been constructed to empty approximately 80% of its traffic, by my count, into the centres of two housing estates. The Chairman and I will be familiar over the years with the build up over the years of places like Blackpool in Cork, which has now been bypassed, and areas in Dublin. In this case the engineers or other professionals decided to construct this project and literally emptied it into housing estates. Although it may be late in the day, I want to know who imposed this.

It was imposed one morning when the route opened and, in the context of the co-ordination of effort between all the agencies the Comptroller and Auditor General mentioned, who was responsible for it? Who was the specific engineer working for - the local authority, the Department of the Environment or the NRA? The people there have lived with this for seven or eight years. Who was responsible for that type of planning? How much longer can those locals expect to suffer? It is totally intolerable.

In the context of the Comptroller and Auditor General's examination, is there any way to ensure we do not have a repeat of that exercise anywhere else in the country, that is, the imposition of a new and unsuitable traffic regime on an area? Are you now working on projects from end to end rather than in bits and pieces?

Mr. Tobin

With regard to the Cork issue Deputy Dennehy raises, we need to go back a considerable time, to around the early 1970s, when the various agencies, be they transport agencies, local authorities or the Department of the Environment, assembled a team which eventually produced what is known as the Cork Land Use and Transportation Study. That document has served the Cork region exceedingly well in the meantime. From a national roads point of view, virtually all the projects there, with the exception of Blackpool, which is under construction, and the extension of the south ring to bypass Ballincollig, are in place. It would be wrong to say anything other than Cork has fared very well out of the very early planning and production of the Cork Land Use and Transportation Study.

The road from Glanmire bypassed the county boundaries.

Mr. Tobin

Again——

I did not want to interrupt, but the 7,000 people living in Bishopstown have not done extremely well and their whole standard of living has changed because of this, although this is just an aside. We are not all totally happy with what was done.

Mr. Tobin

I accept totally what is being said. It is one of these situations where Rome was not built in a day. A study identified a very significant level of investment on many major projects in the greater Cork area. They were done in a particular order and I think I am right in saying that the segment that was built - perhaps if one were sitting back in a green field situation - might have been left until a later phase, say the south link. Perhaps we should have left it until the Ballincollig bypass, but in practice Cork Corporation pressed ahead with their planning of that and we and the Department of the Environment were in a position to fund it. It went ahead and there was certain pain in certain quarters of the city to which the Deputy referred. Planning is well advanced on the extension of the south ring onwards to bypass Ballincollig and I understand that a public inquiry has already been held on the CPO for that. We wait anxiously for a determination on that and it is the wish of the NRA that we can progress with the construction as soon as we can to relieve the situation which, I accept totally, is quite difficult for everyone living in that area of the city.

Out of the report regarding strategic planning - and this relates to both the Department of the Environment and the NRA - has there been any dialogue or co-ordinated effort between both regarding the location of future residential areas and the road services needed for them? We are creating new towns and villages under local five year development plans and there is now a huge change because of the Bacon report and other factors leading us to create new towns. Is there any ongoing liaison between the Department, the NRA and local authorities or are we going to find in ten years that there is no road feeding into Douglas in Cork, for example?

Mr. Tobin

Presumably this is an issue to be looked at in the context of the strategic planning guidelines that are being prepared. Obviously the NRA, in consultation with local authorities, will try to ensure that we have a good network in place and avoid putting roads into urban areas where they are undesirable in terms of the heavy traffic they would carry on our network.

The advent of the public private partnerships were mentioned. Does Mr. Tobin see these as being successful in expediting projects and giving value to the taxpayer? How does he see this in the future?

There is also the question of tolls.

On the question of tolls, are there any plans for a smart card which operates in New York? Even Bergen, which is a relatively small town, has a flash pass system for cars? Have we looked at the smart card idea? Are there any proposals? Is car pooling a realistic concept or is it a trendy idea at the moment? Are there any proposals to give rewards for it or is it just a glib matter?

Mr. Tobin

I will pass on car pooling as I do not see it as being relevant to remit. Regarding PPPs, under the national development plan we have a capital programme of £4.4 billion and the expectation is that £1 billion of that will be provided by the private sector in public private partnerships. We are making good strides in preparing ourselves for that type of operation. From the initial start one or two years ago, it would have been fair to say that the PPP operation was not going to hurry schemes along, but once the mechanisms are developed and in place, the system will allow some foreshortening of the timeframe for the implementation of projects. Another advantage is that PPPs will tend to use this type of design-build contract - which I mentioned previously - and we expect that while it might be likely to produce higher initial tender prices, it is likely to give us far more reliable outturn costs and lessen the likelihood of cost overruns. Clearly, the Government is saying it wants to deliver £1 billion in private funding towards the cost of this major investment and, obviously, to be remunerated by tolls. That is our position. We are progressing and looking at all possible options to deliver on that objective.

Have sections of road been identified for tolls?

Mr. Tobin

The national development plan mentions the pilot project, the duplication of West Link - we have reached agreement in principle with the current operators NTR - a bypass at Waterford involving a river crossing and a further river crossing at Limerick. We are also addressing a segment of the N4 between Kilcock and Kinnegad as a possible PPP project. These are all mentioned in the national development plan. As an authority, we are looking beyond that in the context of looking at our programme and what scope there is for parts of the network to be developed in a PPP methodology and on the basis of hard tolling.

As regards the West Link, are there any plans to widen the M50 to three lanes either way?

Mr. Tobin

A study is under way looking at all aspects of that network and without wanting to pre-empt its findings, it is quite likely that it will suggest widening to three lanes.

Construction is going on at the moment on two lanes.

Mr. Tobin

The construction at the moment is by way of providing a number of additional freeflow slips at interchanges. However, that will not pre-empt the issue.

No, I am talking about the southern parkway which is being built at the moment and is two lanes.

Mr. Tobin

There is sufficient property there to enable it to be expanded to three plus three if the need arises.

Given the volume of traffic on the existing M50 would it not make sense to have three lanes now?

Mr. Tobin

It may well do, depending on the outcome of this report, but obviously there would be an issue of dealing with statutory procedures if we want to increase it. The statutory approvals we have are tied to environmental impact statements and so on, and confine us to two plus two. If we wished to go to three plus three we would need to engage in a further round of statutory procedures.

Travelling on the M50 it seems obvious that a third lane is needed already, or will be needed very shortly. We are building another section of it but we are not building three lanes. The need is clear. When the southern section is built one can reasonably anticipate a huge increase in volumes using the entire section or going through the West Link, for instance.

Mr. Tobin

There is one related issue to which, perhaps, I should draw the committee's attention. Referring to the national development plan, the authority is at present evaluating the issue of an eastern bypass. That could have an impact on what will happen on other sections of the C-ring so we obviously need to factor that in.

If the London experience is anything to go by, you will have the second biggest car park in the world. We are going to note the VFM report and the Department's Votes. The Secretary General will let us have the information we requested in one month and two months, respectively.

The witnesses withdrew.

The next meeting of the committee will resume consideration of Vote 34 - Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Vote 5 - Central Statistics Office, Vote 40 - Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs, plus a number of commercial bodies relating to the divergence in the employment statistics as produced by the live register of unemployment and the quarterly national household survey.

The Committee adjourned at 1.55 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Thursday, 17 February 2000.
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