We have already dealt in Committee of the Dáil; which was the Provisional Dáil, with 59 different Public Services. There are five other estimates which are now coming before us, making a complete list of 64 in all, and it will be necessary to go into Committee upon these Estimates, and to formally pass a motion on the 59 already discussed, and on that understanding to take up the discussion of the last five singly.
ESTIMATES FOR PUBLIC SERVICES.
I think before we discuss the motion for the 59 we should have had notice because I imagine there will be some discussion upon the general question.
It will be necessary to report from the Committee to the Dáil, and a resolution embodying the full amount voted in Supply will be proposed, and then I presume matters could be raised on that.
Cannot we deal with these matters as we dealt with them before. I think we dealt with these Estimates before we passed any recommendation to this Dáil. May we not follow this procedure now?
Yes, but before we leave the matter we will have a formal vote passed again in Committee of Supply in this Dáil of the 59 Estimates already discussed.
The whole lot can be taken together when these are dealt with separately.
Yes.
I suppose we can take these already dealt with as the subject of a bloc vote of the Dáil and deal with the remainder in the same way as we dealt with the other Estimates, that is, one by one. I did not know it would be necessary to raise any question upon the Estimates already passed. I did not think it was necessary after discussing each one of the Estimates, each of which was taken by itself.
We intended to raise certain questions of public policy on this motion on matters that have arisen since the Estimates were presented.
When the motion to adopt the report of the Committee comes on the whole Estimates will be before us and cannot those matters be then raised?
I am not sure if I understand your suggestion. Do I understand it is proposed to take the motion now, without notice, approving of the work of the last Dáil's Estimates and then to proceed with those new ones?
Yes, separately in Committee and then we report on the 64 Estimates and pass a general resolution of the Dáil.
I see, and any discussion may arise after these Estimates are dealt with?
Yes.
The Estimates now in the hands of Deputies embrace 64 complete items amounting on the aggregate to £38,051,086. Of these the five last coming up for discussion are new. The other 59 have already been under notice and have been the subject of a Resolution by the recent Dáil and recommended for adoption by Saorstát Eireann. The first Resolution I proposed covers these 59 votes already passed. They represent £37,709,586, being full provision for the whole of the current financial year in the case of the services concerned. They embrace from 1 to 59, and I move accordingly their adoption.
The motion was not read out.
I move "That the several sums set out in the third column of the Summary of Estimates, 1922-23, as laid before the Dáil, excepting amounts relative to Votes 60 to 64 inclusive, be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1923, for expenditure in respect of the services therein mentioned respectively, such sums amounting in the aggregate to £37,709,586, and including amounts already authorised to be issued in respect of the said services out of the Consolidated Fund of the Provisional Government."
I hope, Sir, it will not be accepted as a practice that resolutions will be put before us with copies of them not available for the members.
I presume the whole question of financial procedure will be gone into by the Committee on Procedure, and recommendations will be made to the Dáil. The general procedure in this transition period will not be taken as a precedent.
I think it necessary to protest formally against the discourtesy to the Dáil in the manner of presenting these Estimates and Resolution. We are treated as if we had no other duty than to confirm the decision of a Minister or the Ministry, and I protest.
I myself say I have some difficulty in understanding the statements of Deputy Johnson. You have already had these Estimates before the House for a considerable period; they have been discussed at considerable length. They have been put in the ordinary way, and I have yet to learn what further information it is possible to give the Dáil on those votes. I have yet to learn that you will have a precedent such as the experience we have had for the last six, or seven or eight months, and I do not know for what purpose any statements in respect of them are mentioned here. It may be that I have an understanding which requires penetration, and I would like an explanation.
I will explain. It is that the form of the Resolution that we are asked to pass should be in our hands. I am not dealing with Estimates, but the form of Resolution we are asked to pass should have been circulated before the meeting at 3 o'clock to-day.
The form of the Resolution does not interfere with the actual business. You are dealing here with the passing of £37,000,000, and these flourishes about forms appear to me to be really peculiar, having regard to the importance of the actual items concerned. We are here now on the 13th of December, one week after we have any authority to spend money. We bring it on at the first moment we can, and we give the Dáil every information we have, and all we are criticised about now is form.
I have made no complaint about the gravamen of the matter. We have passed the money, but the form we pass it in is of grave importance. Seeing that this has been foreseen for the last three weeks I think it would have been easy to circulate copies of the Resolution so that it should be in our hands to-day.
I take it that the motion is agreed.
Motion put and agreed to.