I move the adjournment until 3 o'clock to-morrow.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE DAIL. - CUSTOMS ARRANGEMENTS AT DUN LAOGHAIRE.
I gave notice that I would call attention to the conditions of the Customs examinations at Saorstát ports, because I was not entirely satisfied with the reply I got from the Minister for Finance as to the arrangements that are to be adopted at Dun Laoghaire. The problem is not an easy one, because the pier at Dun Laoghaire was not intended for the purpose of Customs examination, and there is, consequently, a very considerable shortage of space. The proposals of the Minister, or rather of his subordinates, and the railway companies concerned, will not, I think, remedy that shortage of space in anyway whatever. The congestion that exists at present is due to the fact that the arrival platform has been cut in two by a fence, and that in half of the space of the ordinary platform, there is established a counter at which the lighter goods are examined. Then there is barely room for the truck-loads of heavy luggage that are brought off the boats and wheeled up to await examination, once the hand luggage has been disposed of. At a time, for instance, like Christmas and when the schools break up, the congestion is immense. There is hardly room to move. I do not know if the Minister has been down there at such a time. With the crowd of people and porters who have luggage to be examined and the people who have had luggage examined trying to get to the platform, there is a great congestion, and old people and children find it very difficult to get through. The congestion is such that it is necessary to shut everybody off the pier who wishes to meet people. If a child is travelling over alone and relatives wish to meet the child, they have either to go to Westland Row or meet the child at the exit from the pier. That is not due to any fault of the Minister or to any fault of any Department, but to the fact that the pier is very small. The one redeeming feature is the great efficiency of those whose duty it is to search luggage. They do their work thoroughly, quickly and courteously, and if they were not extremely competent, the situation would be very much worse.
The Minister got together, last week, representatives of the Revenue Commissioners, the Board of Works, who are responsible for the pier, and the two railway companies concerned. He got them round a table to consider what should be done. That was a very sound first step, but if I might suggest it, the Minister should have done one other thing. He should have locked the door and said that they could not come out until they had propounded a scheme for dealing with the whole question, and not merely the palliative which is suggested, which is to put up some form of shelter which will keep the rain and wind off the people whose luggage is being examined and those whose duty it is to examine it. That would be a good thing, but I am afraid it will have the effect of making the congestion even worse. The Minister, in his reply last week, told me that some inconvenience was inseparable from Customs examination. That is undoubtedly the case, but if he consults the more travelled members of the Ministry, who went to Bobbio and other places, he will find that neither at Dover, Calais, Boulogne, or other places, is the congestion so great or the conditions so uncomfortable as at Dun Laoghaire. That is partly, no doubt, because the thing is improvised. It gives, however, a bad impression to those coming to Ireland for the first time.
Many suggestions might be made. One is that all the heavy luggage labelled for Westland Row should go through and be examined there. Another suggestion is that the hand-baggage should be examined on the boat, as is done on some of the steamers from Dover and Folkestone to Calais and Boulogne. That might be possible. No doubt if you add the risk of seasickness to their other duties you would probably have to pay a slightly higher salary to officers. Taking the situation as it stands and assuming that you are going to examine the luggage at Dun Laoghaire, there are two suggestions. One is that the space at the seaward end of the pier should be used and that all the baggage should go down there. There is a space there occupied by a turn-table which the railway company do not use. A shed could be built there and permanent counters installed. The luggage could pass through there and be examined, and the people could then come from that to the train. The other alternative is that the whole of what I may call the arrival platform— the platform against which the steamer berths—should be used for Customs examination instead of only half. This fence, which cuts the place in half, should be done away with and the train should be loaded on the other side. I have been told that the railway companies object to this because the boats arrive and leave about the same time. That is the sort of argument that has been accepted by Government Departments. In point of fact there are three hours between the arrival of the boat and the departure of the boat, and I imagine, even in time of pressure, that there will be ample margin. This is a question which can be solved if there is a real intention to solve it. It is one of the occasions on which the Minister would wish he had a Parliamentary Secretary to deal with this problem. If he could depute somebody, or if he had time to take the matter in hands himself, and got the representatives of the railway companies and the public departments concerned round a table I believe it could be solved in less than three hours, and a real solution found, not merely a palliative like putting up shelters. In any case I hope the Minister realises that the Christmas traffic is upon us and is likely to be heavy, and that the conditions are bound to be uncomfortable. The conditions should be minimised by putting on as many searchers as possible, so that the people would get through quickly instead of being held up, as sometimes happens, for one and a half hours. It was tolerable in the summer time with daylight. Now it is dark and stormy. I hope the Minister will see his way to make some concession in that respect.
I desire to associate myself, not with all Deputy Cooper has said, but certainly with the causes of complaint he has mentioned. Those who have any practical knowledge of the working of passenger and mail traffic at this pier know that the accommodation on the west side is entirely unsuitable. At the west side of the pier, to which Deputy Cooper referred, the covered shed is only about 400 feet long, and the width, before the Customs regulations came into operation, 34 feet. That has been reduced to 20 feet, and after the conference held the other day —I do not know if it is responsible for what has been done—it has been further reduced by 3 feet 6 inches. It is within the knowledge of travellers and others who use the pier that under the old arrangement, when passengers in excess of 400 had to be dealt with, accommodation on the west side of the pier was absolutely unsuitable and resulted in confusion, inconvenience and delay. I suggest to the Minister that the whole question is an engineering one. If there is any means by which the platform space on the west side of the pier can be extended or improved, there, I think, lies the real solution of the difficulty. Deputy Cooper suggests that hand luggage should be searched on the passage between Holyhead and Dun Laoghaire. That suggestion was put forward before, and if the Minister is prepared to meet the necessary expenses involved, it is for him to say so.
In my opinion, it would not meet the difficulty that exists. I suggest that the engineer to the Board of Works and engineers of the companies interested in the development of traffic and the proper working of the pier, should be brought together and asked to try and devise a permanent solution of what is a very real difficulty. There is another aspect of this case, and it is a very serious one. This harbour was looked upon as the natural entrance to the Irish Free State for tourist traffic from England and elsewhere. The reception afforded passengers, especially when there is a big crowd at the pier, is one that they would not like to undergo a second time. People with hotels and boarding houses in Bray and Dun Laoghaire have suffered for the past five years for lack of tourist traffic. Any improvement in the arrangements for dealing with passengers would be welcome. It would also help to remove the confusion that undoubtedly has occurred for the past two years, and particularly since the Customs regulations were enforced on the 1st April. Apart from the Customs regulations, there are many things to be taken into consideration when dealing with this matter.
I want to press this point, not only in regard to the inconvenience to passengers at Dun Laoghaire, which is very great and liable to deflect passenger traffic to other places, perhaps to other countries, but also to the delays in the examination of parcels and the delay in examination of dutiable traffic of all kinds at the various ports. From the information in my hands, that is especially so at Greenore. That is due to the insufficiency of the staff of the Customs. Deputy Mahony or Deputy Good might be surprised if I were to say a word on behalf of the railway company, but in respect of Greenore, of which I have some information, it seems that the railway company, as a matter of fact, have gone to considerable expense in providing assistance, in the way of railway servants, to deal with this parcels traffic, to the extent, up to a month ago, of paying £150 a week in wages for this service. An insufficiency of Customs officers practically compelled the railway company to look for a reduction of that staff, leaving the commercial community at a loss because of still further delays in dealing with Customs traffic. There were bad arrangements there up to a month ago, and I do not think there has been any change for the better since. I hope the Minister will be able to say definitely that the complaints that were made three weeks or a month ago no longer exist. Up to that time the practice was that the Customs officials who did ordinary work in the day time entered upon the special work of examining consignments after hours, that work being paid for by the traders at overtime rates. One week, for instance, on a Monday, there were 25 consignments cleared before 4 o'clock, and 16 after 4 o'clock.
On Tuesday 20 consignments were cleared before 4 o'clock, and 73 after 4 o'clock. On Wednesday 14 consignments were cleared before 4 o'clock and 15 after 4 o'clock. On Thursday 13 were cleared before 4 o'clock, and 7 after 4 o'clock. On Friday 4 consignments were cleared before 4 o'clock, and 22 after 4 o'clock. The railway companies have to pay the Customs people 4/- an hour overtime to examine dutiable goods after 4 o'clock. That charge is thrown upon the companies and the public solely, because the staff for dealing with Customs matters is insufficient. The consequence is very considerable delay in forwarding the traffic. On a day in the early part of November, which is not the latest information that I have, there were 477 consignments, and some of them were waiting since last May to be dealt with. They were lying at Greenore uncleared, and the whole of the responsibility for that lay with the Customs. It is quite evident that there is an accumulation of consignments, and that there is general dissatisfaction with the manner of dealing with them. It is clear from facts placed before me that the service is being transferred in other directions and is going by other routes, and is coming by rail from Northern ports. The complaint in regard to Greenore may not be typical. I hope it is not; but there have been complaints from Waterford, Cork and Dublin in regard to the delays to consignments and in the transportation of goods. If it can be shown, as I am led to believe it can, that much of the delay is caused by the shortage of Customs officers then some improvement should be made by the appointment of a larger number of examiners.
I am sorry Deputy Cooper gave in his notice in the form he did. He simply stated that he would draw attention to the Customs arrangements at Free State ports. I was not sure if he meant to speak about Dun Laoghaire or on some question he had not raised before.,His form of notice amounts practically to no notice at all. It will be obvious that I could not, with such notice given me that a matter would be raised on the adjournment, have any details about Greenore or other places. A Minister can only give satisfactory answers on any matter raised on the adjournment if he is given reasonable notice, and if something fairly specific is mentioned so that if it is a matter about which facts can be brought forward, he can have some opportunity of getting them. I answered a question in regard to Greenore, and I know there was a serious failure on the part of the rail way company in giving us the facilities we were entitled to at Greenore. The only weapon we would have would be to refuse to recognise the place at all, and so shut down the traffic, and we could in that way get the facilities which up to this we have not had. We have not got the facilities from the railway company at Greenore that we should have got. Further than that I cannot say at the moment, without having some notice of the matter. The Dun Laoghaire case is really a matter for engineers. There are remedies that could be applied there, but they would cost very considerable sums indeed. Some remedy that would be cheap, and still quite a sufficient remedy, is a matter that is being looked into. I certainly desire to do everything possible to facilitate the work there, and everything I can do will be done; but I will not be rushed into any costly scheme until I see that it cannot be done more cheaply. I have taken all the steps that I consider necessary at the moment. I have had a conference of people interested, and I have given instructions to have the matter examined. It has been examined to some extent and is still under examination.
Would the Minister think of bringing the Mail Boats into Dublin, and I will guarantee we will give them accommodation there?
That, of course, would be a remedy. But I really have nothing at all to add to what I have said on the question of the suggestions put forward. There is nothing new in any of them.
Might I point out that an important aspect of the situation has been lost sight of. Owing to the congestion on the pier arising from the examination of luggage, it is very difficult for persons meeting children to get on to the pier. That is a very important matter, particularly coming to the Christmas season, when a number of youngsters are coming home. I understand that the existing arrangement is that if one wants to get on to the pier one has to apply to the Harbour Master's office for permission, and in that way get a ticket. I am told that such applications have been refused on account of congestion on the pier, so that, from that point of view, I think it is absolutely essential that the examination of luggage should be removed altogether, if possible, in order that accommodation might be given to those other people, for whom I think it will be generally agreed some form of accommodation should be provided. This matter has been engaging the attention of some of the commercial bodies in the city, and I think they came to the conclusion that the practical solution of the difficulty would be to do away with the examination at Dun Laoghaire altogether, and let a similar method to that which Deputy Cooper has referred to be adopted at Dún Laoghaire as in the case of passengers arriving at Dover and going through to London. The examination of luggage should be done away with at Dun Laoghaire and should take place at Westland Row.
Accommodation could be easily provided there, and the work done in a much more expeditious way than at the moment. It is quite obvious that a certain amount of examination of luggage would still be necessary at Dun Laoghaire, for a number of people leave the pier there and go to places in the South, but that would be only a small portion of the amount of luggage going through. If the other method were adopted the greater part of the difficulty could be got over. I hope this matter will be kept before the Minister, and some solution provided.
The question of examination at Westland Row is one of the suggestions that has been considered. That would involve expense and delay. A number of people might be going from Westland Row to different parts of the country, and it would involve difficulties for people who wanted to get down to Wicklow and Wexford. All the suggestions put up here have been examined. I do not see that better arrangements could be made, but the matter is under examination. It is impossible to find a way that would satisfy everybody. In fact it is impossible to find a way that does not create some new inconvenience. I believe it is impossible to allow people on he pier in any numbers without making congestion very much worse. There could be arrangements such as having an examination in Dun Laoghaire somewhere away from the pier. I do not know whether there is space there or not. I think the examination that is done at Dover is done at some considerable distance away from where the boat comes in.
No, it is adjoining the quay.
Yes, it is some hundreds of yards away. Perhaps some arrangement could be made that would do away with the bringing of trains on to the pier. I assure the Deputies that they are not full of new suggestions that nobody else ever thought of, and that the various suggestions that have been put forward raised their own difficulties. I can only promise that the matter will be kept under consideration.
Would the Minister see that the question of access is made as easy as possible for children arriving there and expecting to see their parents on the pier, and that some arrangements could be made to meet their special grievances?
I will take that into consideration, but I believe it would be difficult to allow any considerable number of people on the pier.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.40 p.m. until 3 o'clock to-morrow.