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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Mar 1924

Vol. 6 No. 28

TEMPORARY ACCOMMODATION OF THE OIREACHTAS. - STANDING ORDERS RELATING TO PRIVATE BUSINESS.

I beg to move:—

That it be referred to the Joint Committee appointed under Order 7 of the Standing Orders of the Dáil and Seanad relative to Private Business to report on the following proposed amendment of the said Standing Orders, viz., in Order 40, line 9, after the word "university" to insert the words "or an Associate of the Royal College of Science, Ireland."

The existing Standing Orders debarred those who were only Associates of the College of Science from availing of advantages, such as signing Bills for prospective schemes in the Saorstát. Consequently, many young students are forced to go elsewhere for employment, because the Standing Order makes them ineligible for engineering appointments under the Government of the Saorstát. I note that the British Government have recognised the Associates of the College, and I understand that similar recognition is given in the Indian Office and in the Colonies generally. I note that Deputy Cooper has tabled an amendment, and if the idea is to make the necessary change suggested in my motion, I have no objection to it.

I beg to second.

I have put down the following amendment on behalf of the Committee:—

To delete all words after the word "that" in line 1, and to substitute in lieu thereof the words "Order No. 40 of the Standing Orders for Private Business be referred to the Joint Committee on Private Business to be reconsidered, and that the Joint Committee be requested to report any amendments therein which may be desirable."

Deputy Doyle's motion appeared on the Order Paper when the Joint Committee dealing with Private Bill procedure was sitting. We took the motion into consideration, and we considered it would be very desirable that if Standing Order Number 40 were to be reconsidered it should not be merely a specific instruction to us to consider it in respect of one amendment only, but we should be entitled to reconsider the whole Standing Order, and make such recommendation as we thought desirable. I would remind Deputy Doyle what the purpose of Standing Order 40 is. The promotion of a Private Bill lays it within the power of the promoters to compel private individuals, corporations, and local authorities to go to a considerable amount of expense, and, therefore, it is necessary to insert a safeguard so that no Private Bill shall be promoted by what may be described as men of straw. It is necessary that they should be men of some standing and responsibility, and Standing Order 40 provides that their plans and specifications and estimates shall be drawn up by a competent person, and the definition of that competent person is set out in the Order. All the qualifications set out there are recognised technical qualifications. The Associateship of the College of Science is also a recognised qualification. I do not want to give Deputy Doyle any pledge. In the first place, I could not pledge the Committee, and in the second place I do not want to pledge that we will accept and include the College of Science. We have had representations from it already on the subject, and they were carefully considered, and the general view was that these people ought to belong to a trade union organisation. Certainly that was the Labour view. It is quite possible that a man might have his mere college experience, and might not have any practical work. Our main interest is to get the highest possible technical qualifications. In the interests of the public as a whole, who are liable to be put to very great expense by Private Bill legislation, we are obliged to get the highest qualifications possible. Therefore I would urge the Dáil to adopt the amendment, and to let the Joint Committee go into the whole Standing Orders. The Committee can then consider and make whatever recommendations they think fit. It would then be open to Deputy Doyle to move that our recommendations be not adopted.

I think a more satisfactory result will be achieved by letting us reconsider the whole Standing Order, and formulating not only our recommendations but our reasons for the recommendations.

I second the amendment.

On general grounds I approve of this amendment. I do not think it is a proper thing to modify Standing Orders submitted to us by a Committee without first taking the view of the Standing Orders Committee. I would not like to have it thought for a moment that I agree with what Deputy Cooper has said as to university qualifications not being really satisfactory qualification. I sincerely hope that the Committee will not adopt the alternative course which he has suggested. I think there is too great a tendency to belittle university qualification. However, in supporting the motion, I wish to take this opportunity of expressing my disagreement with Deputy Cooper on that point.

May I remind Deputy Thrift that Deputy Magennis is a member of the Committee.

I take it the amendment is before the Dáil at the present time. It seems to me that the amendment has good sense. If you want alter a Standing Order it ought to go back to the Committee for reconsideration. But I am sorry to see that Deputy Cooper has joined the ranks of the Trade Unionists. I am afraid that is a retrograde step for him. His plea that the professions should copy the trade unions is, I am afraid, rather a retrograde step, too, because the professions leave it open here to pass your examination and become a member of the organisation, taking out your qualifications, whereas I think trade unions are working as close boroughs. I am afraid you will not get into a trade union by competitive examination. I only wish to express my sorrow at Deputy Cooper's reference to professional men in trade unions.

I do not know if I am in order in replying——

We have two trades unionists on the Committee and one of them is a K.C.

May I point out that the motion says to refer it to a Committee. The amendment is similar in one sense, and I accept it.

Amendment put and agreed to.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to.
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