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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 2 Jul 1924

Vol. 8 No. 3

THE DÁIL IN COMMITTEE. - ILLEGAL FISHING.

Repeated complaints have been made in this House on several occasions and questions have been asked about the depredations committed by foreign trawlers along the coast of Saorstát Eireann. Promises have been made by the Minister that the number of patrol boats would be increased and the answers to questions, when the Minister was reminded of an odd trawler caught illegally fishing, were in neatly rounded phraseology to the effect that the evidence would be laid before the Chief State Solicitor with a view to the prosecution of the trawler masters. I now ask him whether there has been any prosecution against any of these pirates, since the Ministry was formed, in Donegal. Several have been caught, and sufficient evidence is available to sustain a conviction. We in Donegal are of the opinion that the Minister and his Department are sort of Rip Van Winkles, who only wake up to the realities of the situation about once in every seven years. These thieves are closely watching where the local fishermen operate and, having carefully noted the spot, swoop down and clear the area of fish, and in addition ruin the fishing ground with their trawls. The unfortunate local men have to watch these pirates plundering the fish which they are entitled to, while they themselves are in absolute starvation, because they are unable to catch the fish owing to the operations of the marauding boats. No effective control is being exercised, to prevent this piracy, by the responsible authorities.

I understand that at the present time there is only one patrol boat for the whole Saorstát coast-line. How can it be held or established that one patrol boat is sufficient to control the operations of those thieving marauders? The purse strings of the National Exchequer must, indeed, be held with a relentless grip when we cannot afford to provide a fleet of patrol boats to protect an industry which means millions of pounds to the country, in labour, transit, and in the provision of cheap, wholesome food for the people. Inadequate fines when people were caught have been inflicted. At Clifden, Co. Galway, on the 5th June, the owners of two French lobster boats were fined £10 each by the District Justice, but if some local person was caught making poteen he would have been fined £25 or £50. When these thieving pirates, who are taking the bread out of the mouths of the local fishermen, are brought up they are let off with a fine of £10. What do they care about a fine of £10 or £100? They would make it in one haul in one night, and they simply laugh at the administration of the Free State. The latest depredation of these boats has occurred off the Donegal coast line, in the vicnity of Burtonport where several boats were caught fishing the other night with their identity numbers and names carefully concealed by tarpaulins and with their lights out. About a month ago I brought under the notice of the Minister for Fisheries by a question the fact that two trawlers were caught off Malin Head. There are a dozen men who are willing to give evidence about the incident, but nothing has been done. Several trawlers have been caught off Donegal within the last two years illegally trawling but no prosecution has been taken. We want to know what the Minister and his department are doing for the amount of money which they are getting from the State. As the hour is late I do not wish to delay the Dáil after a wearying day, but I deemed it my duty to bring up this matter, which requires, and should get, more careful attention from the Minister and his Department than it is getting.

I do not regard Deputy White as bringing forward this matter by way of censure on the Department, but rather as a motion of censure on the marauding pirates. Wherever you go around the coast you find that the fishermen are incensed at the illegal methods of the steam trawlers. Even in County Dublin I find fishermen in Skerries and Lough Shinny complaining that when they went out line-fishing for the night— fishing with long lines attached to a buoy—and laid their lines, they often discovered when they came back next day that they had been swept away by steam trawlers, and so they lost buoys, lines, hooks, fish and everything. I believe that on one occasion the Ministry was informed, and through the operations of the "Helga" a prosecution followed, but that was not a sufficient deterrent. Is it not possible to supplement the service of the "Helga" in some way? So long as there is only one fishery protection cruiser it will be impossible to stop illegal fishing, as people will watch her, know her movements, and will fish in areas where they know she is not likely to be. Every additional boat which you put on fishery protection service lessens that possibility, and makes protection more efficient. We cannot have an unlimited number of boats like the "Helga," and I suggest to the Minister, though I am a man who has no special knowledge of the sea, in fact I am very much at sea when at sea, that coastal motor boats might be used in such cases. There were, I believe, a number of such boats in the service of the State at Dun Laoghaire about a year ago. I do not know if they are still there, or what has happened to them, but I think it would be worth while buying a fleet of half a dozen of such motor boats. These might not be available for high seas, but as a rule these trawlers do not fish in high seas. It might give greater sense of security to the fishermen if they knew that they could call on help directly instead of telegraphing to Dublin for the services of the "Helga," which might be hundreds of miles away. I hope that the Minister will not lie down under the Ministry of Finance and that he will continue to fight this issue, as he will find that there is a large and very earnest body of public opinion behind him.

I think I should rather welcome this discussion, because it raises a matter about which I feel very keenly myself—the fact that we have not a sufficient number of patrol boats around our coast. I hope this discussion will strengthen my hands in my arguments with the Ministry of Finance. We have only one boat to patrol the whole coastline of the Saorstát. It is, of course, a joke to think that that would be sufficient. It is not sufficient, and could not possibly be, and even though the captain and crew of that boat work very hard and do what they can, it is absolutely impossible to deal with the amount of illegal trawling which is going on all round the coast. Scotland for its fisheries has five fishery cruisers, as well as— under statutory obligation, I think— a British Admiralty boat specially detailed for conserving Scottish fisheries.

I have here the latest Report of the Scottish Departmental Committee on Scottish Sea Fisheries. In addition to the five they have already, this report recommends that there should be five more auxiliary vessels and that a faster and more efficient Admiralty vessel should be put on the service. That means that they want to have eleven effective vessels. We have only one. I asked last year for at least one more. I thought I was going to get three or four of those patrol boats that were under the Ministry of Fisheries. That did not materialise. In my first Estimate this year I did not ask for one because the legal position was not sufficiently clear. I have not got sufficient satisfaction from the law department that even if they were caught a prosecution would materialise. I have since gone to the Ministry of Finance and estimated for a boat, and it is being favourably considered. During the year ending on the 31st May the Ministry received thirty-seven reports of what might be called too general a nature as to the presence of steam trawlers inside limits. No action could be taken as essential particulars were not available in order to enable us to prosecute. In the same period there were forty-two cases where trawlers were detected illegally fishing. That means they were detected illegally fishing, with sufficient proof that they were. Of these forty-two actual detections, five were convicted. In most of the other cases proceedings were allowed to lapse owing to legal questions or Constitutional issues being involved. That was a thing I mentioned before when the Supplementary Estimate came up here. Cases upon cases were being sent to the Law Department and no decision could be got from them, in spite of all our protests in the matter. Deputy White mentioned a recent case where a couple of French or Belgian lobster boats were fined only £10 by the District Justice at Clifden. I could not order the District Justice to inflict a greater fine. It has been very hotly contested in this House that the District Judge is a judge the same as any other judge, and is not responsible to the Executive or any Department for his actions in any particular case. He forms his decisions according to the evidence that is put before him. If he says £10, £10 has to stand.

Might I suggest to the Minister in the event of the Treasury or the Minister for Finance not providing sufficient patrol boats, that he provide the local fishermen with rifles and ammunition.

I am afraid that might cut in a different way. I have on certain occasions asked for rifles and ammunition, but not exactly for that particular purpose. That might bring us into serious trouble. It is a matter, of course, for the Minister for Justice and the Minister for Defence. I agree that no effective patrol of the coast can be done unless we get at least one more boat. The old "Helga," now the "Muirchu," is very well known to the poachers. When it is seen on the horizon they clear outside the territorial waters and the by-law limits. When it passes in any given direction they feel themselves safe because they know that there is no other boat that might also come along and catch them. For that reason I welcome the motion. I am absolutely in agreement that the coast cannot be patrolled and that fishing beds will be marauded as long as we have not at least one other fishing cruiser. For that reason I rather welcome the discussion, and I welcome it because I hope it will strengthen my hand in the case I have put up as strongly as I could to the Minister for Finance to at least give me one more boat, if it cost £30,000 to build and about eight or nine thousand pounds per annum to keep.

Deputy Cooper made a very practical suggestion about the use of motor boats, which you could give serious consideration to.

I want to suggest to the Minister to bear in mind that we are living in the year 1924. In connection with trawling within the limits, there are probably comparatively few grounds where this will apply. I suggest to the Minister that he consider with the Ministry of Defence the use of seaplanes or aeroplanes, as distinct from motor boats and additional patrol boats. I think it will be found that they will be much more effective, very much quicker, and they could not be evaded if they were running in conjunction with the "Helga" and coast watchers.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.50 p.m. until 3 o'clock on Thursday, July 3rd.

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