Owing to the idea that prevailed in the Saorstát for the last three or four months that the Minister was about to reduce the duty on spirits, a considerable number of merchants did not withdraw from bond the quantity of whiskey that they wanted for their trade during the summer. They are now prepared, if they can get permission, to withdraw the five years old whiskey that is now specified. If the Minister does not give them permission to do so a number of them will run dry during the summer and there will be no singing. On behalf of a great number of members of the licensed trade who would be at a considerable disadvantage under these circumstances, I would ask the Minister to allow them to withdraw the five years old whiskey, but not the other that he is almost justified in stopping the sale of. I would be very grateful if he would make that concession.
FINANCIAL RESOLUTIONS—REPORT. - RESOLUTION No. 8.
I am very doubtful whether that could be done with our present powers. There are powers in the Immature Spirits Act for restricting the issue of the allowance of spirits out of bond, but I do not think that we could allow unlimited withdrawals of one class of spirits and restrict the issue of another class. The position is, I think, that for the present, until the legislation which will be introduced in a day or so becomes law, carrying out the promise I made in my Budget statement, we will have to pursue a policy of a general restriction of the issue of spirits from bond. But I am quite prepared, if the restrictions at present in force seem to be undue restrictions, to consider any facts that may be put before me, and I might increase the allowance. The present issues are based on the issues of the first three months of the last financial year. It would be possible to add a percentage to the amount that might be issued, if that were thought desirable. But we have to take care that there is not a big withdrawal of, say, three years old or four years old spirits before the Bill which has yet to be introduced becomes law. Certain representations have been made, and the position has been explained to those who made them, and I think on the whole they were satisfied that it was in the best interests of everybody that the restrictions should hold until we got legislation on the matter.
I only want to have possible the withdrawal of mature whiskey, and in such quantities only as are absolutely necessary. We do not want to take advantage of anything; we only want fair play. Owing to the vain hopes that were held out to them some of these people did not withdraw as they did this time twelvemonths, but the Minister for Finance gave them the drop. We will be satisfied if he will consider allowing out a certain quantity.
Will the Minister give us some explanation of the effect of these duties? I have heard suggestions and denials as to the effect of this Resolution with respect to the importation of Scotch patent still whiskey, but I have not heard or read anything authoritative as to what the hopes and expectations of the Minister are in rerespect of this matter. Some of us are very innocent on these questions and we would like a little information.
Would it be in order to raise the question of the duty on spirits with a view to having it reduced? There is a duty of £3 12s. 6d. per proof gallon on whiskey.
I think it would be better on the Finance Bill, if the Deputy would be prepared to wait until then.
I would like to draw the attention of the Minister to the unfair preference that Scotch whiskey has at present. I want to know if this Resolution is in any way intended to rectify the preference of Scotch whiskey against Irish in the six degrees of lower strength at which it can be sold for the same price as Irish? I understand that some time ago legislation was promised to hold up the withdrawal of whiskey from bond until it was three years old, and now the Minister has referred to an increase of duty here on whiskey that is withdrawn before it is five years old. I think that is a very valuable provision, but how far it is intended to rectify, or whether it will rectify to any extent, the unfair preference given to Scotch whiskey as against our distilling trade I would like to know.
I would like to say that there is no unfair preference for Scotch whiskey. Scotch whiskey is normally sold at 30 degrees under proof. In order that it could be sold at that strength the bottle has to be labelled so that customers may know they are buying spirits of that strength. There is nothing at all to prevent Irish whiskey being sold at the same strength under the same conditions. The talk that we hear about a preference for Scotch whiskey is talk without any foundation whatever. I do not know exactly what effect the proposals about warehousing spirits for five years will have on the sale of Scotch whiskey. We are introducing these new regulations because we think the Irish whiskey trade will prosper, if it is to prosper at all, on having a reputation for quality as the best whiskey. Scotch whiskey is made under the patent still process which is a cheaper process. Pot still whiskey, which is the whiskey we are concerned with, is made by a process that is dearer. It can only compete with the other whiskey if it has the very highest reputation. That reputation is injured if it is sold without being properly matured. We believe that we cannot control all the factors which will affect the reputation of the Irish whiskey trade, but at least we can see that at home conditions are observed which will ensure that its reputation is of the highest possible for quality. It may be that this will have the effect at any rate for the present, of restricting the sale of Scotch whiskey, because patent still whiskey does not improve by being matured in the way that pot still whiskey does. Scotch whiskey is at present matured for three years because the Act of 1919 obliges it to be kept for that period. I do not know whether any of it is kept for a longer period. If it is, then this particular provision that we are going to introduce will not affect the Scotch whiskey trade. If, on the other hand, there is little or no Scotch whiskey over three years old, it would, of course, prevent the sale of Scotch whiskey until there is a supply available of the requisite age, 5 years. It is a matter on which there is no precise information.
I do not think the Minister has quite answered the point raised by Deputy McGoldrick. You may, of course, purchase a bottle of Scotch whiskey at 12/6 marked 30 under proof, as against Irish whiskey, for which you pay perhaps 15/-. At the same time if you go into a public-house and order a glass of Scotch whiskey you pay the same price for the Scotch whiskey, as far as my information goes, as you pay for the Irish whiskey. Therefore there is a great inducement for the retailer to sell Scotch whiskey in preference to the Irish whiskey because he is able to purchase it at a much lower rate.
There would be nothing to prevent the publican adding the necessary quantity of water to Irish whiskey, labelling it 30 degrees under proof, and selling it under the same conditions.
That is news for the publicans.
I would be very much surprised if it were.