Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 21 Feb 1929

Vol. 28 No. 2

Public Business. - Vote 46—Primary Education.

Mr. Blythe

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £13,850 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníochta i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1929, chun Costaisí Bun-Oideachais, maraon le Deontaisí i gCabhair do Chiste Phinsin na Múinteoirí.

That a sum not exceeding £13,850 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1929, for the expenses of Primary Education, including Grants-in-Aid of the Teachers' Pension Fund.

Professor O'Sullivan

The reason for this Supplementary Estimate is the difficulty, I might say the impossibility, of gauging correctly the effect of the School Attendance Act on the attendance at schools. There was a warning issued, I think, by the Public Accounts Committee, that we should make as close an estimate as possible, and especially avoid over-estimation. Consequently, we did cut the Estimate as tight as we could, but the attendance at national schools was larger than we anticipated, with the result that the consequential expenses in the way of increased salaries and increased capitation grants came to £19,000. There was a similar increase in the grant for the heating and cleaning of schools. In other portions of the Vote there are savings amounting to about £6,000, leaving a Supplementary Estimate of £13,850.

Mr. Fahy

Even though there is an increase in the Estimate, it is gratifying to know that the reason is that there is a better attendance at schools. I suppose the same thing applies to Vote 47, to a certain extent.

Professor O'Sullivan

Quite so.

Mr. Fahy

I suppose this would not be the proper place to ask a question with reference to the conditions and so on under which that grant for the cleaning of schools was given. I presume it would come more under the general Estimate. I should like some idea as to the manner in which the saving of £6,500 was effected, if the Minister would be good enough to give it.

Professor O'Sullivan

The estimated savings are: Training Colleges, £400; prizes and grants, £110; Preparatory Colleges, £2,370; van and boat services, £70; free grants of school requisites, £160; evening elementary schools (fewer schools are in operation than was anticipated), £200; junior assistant mistresses, £1,000; casual fluctuations are the cause there; teachers' residences, £400. Because of non-compliance with the conditions under which the grant was given the moiety was paid back by the Board.

Mr. Briscoe

Did I understand the Minister for Education to say that there was a saving in the evening schools?

Professor O'Sullivan

Yes.

Mr. Briscoe

I would like to draw the attention of the House to the actual closing of these evening schools. I believe it is most unfair to try and save on these evening schools money that was already passed by the House.

Professor O'Sullivan

That is not the situation. This Vote referred to is not at all touched by the policy to which the Deputy refers.

Mr. Briscoe

Not touched by these evening schools that have been closed?

Professor O'Sullivan

No.

Mr. Briscoe

Not even indirectly?

Professor O'Sullivan

No.

Mr. O'Connell

There is one point arising out of what the Minister said. I understand from what the Minister has said that the money voted for evening schools this year will be payable no matter what happens next year.

Professor O'Sullivan

I will explain that fully. You may take it, so far as evening schools are concerned, that as a general rule if the classes can be continued up to 31st March, and if they come to an end on 31st March, we will see whether they cannot be paid. If new courses are now opened and continued beyond the 31st March that raises a different question.

Mr. Fahy

There is just this point. I should like to ask the Minister how the saving of £150 on school requisites was effected. Was it by penalising certain schools in regard to free school requisites? Were there fewer applications or was the Department more stringent?

Professor O'Sullivan

It is a question of fluctuation. Claims that were anticipated did not come in.

Professor Thrift

As regards Deputy O'Connell's point, do I take it from what the Minister has said that there is no question of shutting down these evening schools before the 31st March?

Professor O'Sullivan

It really depends on whether the course of lectures will come to an end by the 31st March. In some cases what we have done is not to sanction the starting of new schools, schools which cannot come to an end on the 31st March. I wish to make it quite clear, so far as continuation education is concerned, that we do not think that this particular action will lead in any way to detrimental results. I hope to be in a position in the summer to introduce a Bill dealing with Technical and Continuation Education. However, that raises another matter altogether.

Professor Thrift

I think the Minister has answered the point. What I was referring to was classes which had been authorised up to the 31st March.

Professor O'Sullivan

I will look into that matter.

Question put and agreed to.