There is a matter which I wish to raise on a question of privilege—the privilege which is accorded to members of this House and which was, as I submit, abused in this case. In the report of last evening's debate on the Juries Bill there is a statement which is on record: Deputy de Valera was speaking, and I said: "And have one only wounded." Mr. Lemass said: "You are much more efficient." Mr. G. Boland then said something, and then Mr. Smith said: "He is a proper cur anyway," and Mr. Lemass said: "He is all that." I desire to give an opportunity to the Deputies who made these remarks, possibly in the heat of the moment, to withdraw them now. As you, sir, understand, this House is a privileged place, and persons can say things here which they dare not say outside. I regret that Deputy Smith is not here now, but I am sure that Deputy Lemass is prepared to withdraw the suggestion as far as he is concerned.
Expression Used in Debate.
As far as Deputy Smith is concerned, I am satisfied that he is prepared to say that outside the House and inside.
I only got notice of this matter since I took the Chair. Deputy O'Sullivan was himself present when the remark was made yesterday evening. Is that not so?
Yes.
The remark was made by way of interruption, I take it, and was not heard by the Chair. If it had been heard, notice would certainly have been taken of it. The practice is, when a very glaring case of this kind occurs, that the Editor of Debates draws the attention of the Ceann Comhairle to it. If it was not heard by the Chair, it should not appear in the Official Report. This remark will certainly not appear in the Official Report. With regard to the point of order at issue, when a remark is made in the House to which exception is taken, objection should be taken to that remark at once, and if not at once, not later than when the Deputy addressing the House has concluded his speech, and before any other Deputy has addressed the House, or before the Chair has intervened on any matter. I think that is a sound rule. If it were not observed, we should be constantly after questions, going back on previous proceedings. An exception is usually made in the case of a Deputy who desires himself to withdraw something which he had said on a previous day. That is not the present case. The matter is raised not by Deputy Smith, but by Deputy O'Sullivan. That is the rule, and I think it is a sound rule.
I am willing to withdraw any remark made by me that casts any reflection on Deputy O'Sullivan's ancestors.
You know, sir——
I do not want to have the matter raked up any more.
It is not in connection with this particular matter. I raise it not as a point of order, but as a question of privilege. It was impossible to raise this last evening at the end of Deputy de Valera's speech, as I actually did not hear it. It is, however, recorded in the Official Report, and the deletion of a remark like that from the Official Report by order of the Ceann Comhairle is, I suggest, not what should be done. I know that Deputy Lemass does not wish to be personally rude to me, but I say again that when an occasion like this arises, when there are exchanges of remarks, nobody—it does not matter who he is—should insult you, sir, or this House by seeking an opportunity for saying what he would not say outside the House. I know Deputy Boland will say that he would say it.
He would say it, certainly.
I am not displeased at having an opportunity of making the position quite clear on this matter. Deputy O'Sullivan did not hear the remark now complained of; the Chair did not hear the remark made. Therefore, for record purposes, the remark was not made, and it will not appear in the Official Report of yesterday's proceedings. It would be impossible to report all the various remarks that are made from various parts of the House when certain Deputies are speaking—it could not be done. In any event, it is not a question of privilege; it is a question of order. I want to make that ruling quite definite now. If it were a question of privilege, the Deputy would be entitled to raise it. But when a Deputy takes exception to something said, he should do so at once. If he does not do so at once, he should do it before another Deputy has intervened, after the Deputy then addressing the House.