asked the Minister for Local Government and Public Health if he is aware that in construing Section 109 of the National Insurance Act, 1911, as amended by the 3rd Schedule of the National Health Insurance Act, 1920, national health benefit is considered income, and consequently outdoor relief is cut down, or not given.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - National Health Insurance and Relief.
asked the Minister for Local Government and Public Health if he is aware that persons in receipt of national health benefit not exceeding 7/6 per week are entitled to have outdoor relief in addition, without any deductions whatsoever, in accordance with Section 109 of the National Insurance Act, 1911, as amended by the 3rd Schedule of the National Health Insurance Act, 1920, and if he will take steps to implement Section 109 of the National Insurance Act, 1911, as amended by the Act of 1920.
Section 109 of the National Insurance Act, 1911, as amended by the 3rd Schedule of the National Health Insurance Act, 1920, provides that "in granting outdoor relief to a person in receipt of, or entitled to receive, any benefit under these Acts, a board of guardians shall not take into consideration any such benefit, except so far as such benefit exceeds seven shillings and sixpence a week." The local authority is the sole authority for the granting of outdoor relief, and is the proper authority to which representations may be made.
This matter, as the Minister is aware, was brought to his notice before both in this House and in the Seanad. The Minister is not now taking up the attitude that he took up in a previous debate, that such was not the case. Will the Minister say whether he will use his good offices in seeing that the Act is enforced or properly interpreted by local authorities and, if they refuse, administer it?
I do not understand what the Deputy means by saying that I am not taking up the attitude now which I took up on some other occasion.
The Minister is aware that I accused him or his Department in this House previously of not seeing that the Act was carried out. The Minister at that time did not know whether or not National Health benefit counted as income in the case of the administration of poor relief. If the Minister looks up the records he will see that that is so. I am asking him, now that he does know the interpretation of the Act, if it is brought to his notice that local authorities will not fulfil their obligation under the Act, will he see that they carry it out?
The local authority has a function to deal with the question of outdoor relief. There are statutes there. In so far as they affect the local authority, the local authority no doubt take these Acts into consideration. But I have no function to indicate to any local authority that they should give outdoor relief in any other way than is dictated by their own discretion, after the examination of all the circumstances of the case.
May I put it this way: The Minister's auditors would surcharge Commissioners or other local authorities if they gave relief in cases where there was an income in excess of that prescribed by the Act. If it is now brought to his notice that the local authorities or poor law commissioners will not administer the Act as laid down, will he intimate to them that they must carry it out, or does he intend to force applicants for poor law relief when not administered according to the Act to bring the commissioners into court?
I do not intend to usurp in any way the functions of the local authorities dealing with outdoor relief and I have nothing before me to show that in anything in which I have functions the local authorities are neglecting their duty.
If I send the Minister particulars of cases where what I allege in fact is being done, will he then entertain the idea of functioning in this matter?
No. I will not undertake to take up a complaint such as the Deputy makes when the Deputy is a member of the local authority responsible for setting up the body dealing with this matter in the City of Dublin, with no evidence there that the Deputy, as a local governor, has attempted to deal with this matter in any way.
I do not quite see the significance of that. Perhaps the Minister will repeat what he said as to what I should do.
I do not undertakes to instruct the Deputy in any way.
The Minister undertakes to instruct his Party as to what they should do.
There is no occasion for that at all.
Mr. T. Sheehy (Cork):
We are an intelligent body, anyway.