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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Friday, 21 Oct 1932

Vol. 44 No. 3

Vote 25—Supplementary Agricultural Grant.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £554,011 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1933, chun na Deontas Talmhaíochta do mhéadú (Uimh. 35 de 1925 agus Uimh. 28 de 1931).

That a sum not exceeding £554,011 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1933, for the increase of the Agricultural Grant (No. 35 of 1925 and No. 28 of 1931).

I take it there will be a special Vote for the £250,000 Supplementary Agricultural Grant this year. I do not think the Minister is in a position to give any information to the Dáil as to the actual position of the grant in relief of rates. There is this sum and a sum chargeable on the Central Fund payable in relief of rates, and there is also the £250,000 mentioned in this year's Budget. It would be of interest to the House to know what are the prospects of the local authorities in the matter of receiving these grants. The grants due to local authorities are liable to deduction in respect of unpaid land annuities. The moratorium declared by the Government, I take it, means that there is going to be a considerable excess deduction from the grants to which local authorities are entitled. If there is a cessation of the collection of old arrears it means that a certain flow into the Guarantee Fund which would tend to reduce the deductions would cease. I do not believe there is going to be any improvement in the current collection. I take it that a very large proportion of the money covered by the moratorium is actually money to be deducted from this grant, from the original grant, or from the new supplementary grant, so that the position of local authorities will be prejudiced to that extent. Perhaps there is a further falling off. I do not know what return the Minister may have, or whether he can yet have got a return, but when the House is voting this sum, it would be of interest and of value if it had some forecast as to the proportion of this, and the related sums that will actually go to local authorities, and what their position will be in relation to the grants.

With regard to the point the Deputy has raised I should say at once that it is quite true that the arrears in respect of land annuities are greater this year than last year, and that the county councils have suffered accordingly, in so far as they have not received their proper share of the Supplementary Grant. At the same time, in that connection, we have to bear this fact in mind, that there is a surprising difference between the amount of arrears in one county and in another, and it would seem that in some counties, where the ability to pay is as great as in others—and often greater—there is an inclination on the part of certain annuitants not to make the necessary payments. The whole matter has been engaging the attention of the Government for some time, and I believe that when the Supplementary Estimate for the additional Agricultural Grant, which we propose to make this year, comes before the House with the necessary Bill, we will be in a position to make a full statement as to how we propose to deal with the situation.

The original grant, the sum voted here, and the new grant of £250,000 will bring the total up to something like £2,200,000. Has the Minister any idea of how much of the £2,200,000 Agricultural Grant the councils are likely to receive this year?

I am not able to make a definite statement in that regard for the reason that we recognise that some part of the arrears do possibly, arise out of the present situation, and that some part of the deficiency in respect of the Supplementary Agricultural Grant, which the councils might normally receive, would fall to be made good out of the Emergency Fund. We are not yet in a position to satisfy ourselves how much of such deficiency should be made good as arising properly out of the emergency. Unfortunately, owing to a number of statements made in the House and in the country, some people have convinced themselves that they will not be called upon to pay, that they are not bound to pay, and accordingly are not paying. We will probably have to take measures to disabuse them of that. Until we have tested the efficacy of these measures we are not in a position to form an opinion for ourselves exactly as to the extent to which failure to pay the annuities which are due, arises out of the present emergency.

In view of the statement of the Minister that the failure to pay has arisen largely from representations made by this Party, and not by his own Party, might I ask how much arrears have accrued in the Land Commission, owing to time being given for payment, in cases where representations were made by members of the Minister's Party, directly or indirectly, since last March?

The Minister is referring to speeches made in the country. There are more arrears caused through speeches and representations made on public platforms and otherwise throughout the country by his own Party than by the members of all the Parties put together.

Deputy Gorey seems to have some very valuable information which I would be glad to have passed on to me.

It has been stated many times and boasted of by members of his own Party.

I should like the Minister to state what steps he has taken to prevent the arrears of Land Annuities being charged on the Agricultural Grant in connection with the moratorium declared by the Minister for Lands and Fisheries. Did the Minister take any steps to prevent those arrears being charged on the Agricultural Grant?

No, no steps except to the extent of a sum of £250,000, I think, which was taken from the Emergency Vote and allocated to Councils as an instalment of their share.

Is it not clear then that it is put on to the other amount?

Following on Deputy Brasier's question, I should like to know whether any losses that the Councils may incur or may have incurred as a result of the moratorium will be made good to them out of the £2,000,000 Emergency Grant? Is that the intention?

I do not want to commit myself to a definite statement on that point, but some attempt will be made to meet their position in so far as that position arises out of the emergency.

Is the moratorium part of the emergency? Does it arise from the emergency, or is it the intention to exclude it altogether?

I do not think that we can hold the moratorium as part of the emergency, because the moratorium was granted previous to the emergency having arisen.

Could the Minister say what arrears had accumulated by the time the moratorium was granted?

Speaking from memory, I should say that the amount was between £600,000 and £800,000. That was the accumulation of arrears for a period of ten years, and the accumulation was particularly rapid in the year 1931-1932.

Vote 25 put and agreed to.
The Dáil went out of Committee. Progress reported. Committee to sit again next Wednesday, 26th October.
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