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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 24 Nov 1932

Vol. 45 No. 2

Private Business. - Financial Resolution No. 3—Customs.

(1) That sub-section (2) of Section 1 of the Finance (Customs Duties) (No. 2) Act, 1932 (No. 11 of 1932), be repealed as on and from the 23rd day of November, 1932, and that it be enacted that, in relation to all articles chargeable with the duty imposed by sub-section (1) of the said Section 1 and imported into Saorstát Eireann on or after the said 23rd day of November, 1932, the provisions of Section 8 of the Finance Act, 1919, shall apply to the said duty with the substitution of the expression "Saorstát Eireann" for the expression "Great Britain and Ireland" and as though the articles chargeable with the said duty were mentioned in the Second Schedule to the said Finance Act, 1919, in the list of goods to which two-thirds of the full-rate is made applicable as a preferential rate.
(2) It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

The first of the Resolutions reimposes, with some slight modification, duties which have been already effective under the various Emergency Orders. It is considered that it would be undesirable to make permanent, by a Confirming Bill, these agricultural tariffs until the Dáil has been afforded an opportunity of discussing them on a Financial Motion. After they are agreed to they will be confirmed by a Bill and the Emergency Orders, so far as they have imposed these duties, will be amended in order to delete them.

With regard to Financial Motion 2, it imposes a preferential rate of duty of three-fourths of the full rate on potatoes imported from Commonwealth countries. By the Finance (Customs Duties) (No. 2) Act, 1932, potatoes from Commonwealth countries were originally admitted free. This position was changed by an Emergency Order. Financial Motion No. 3 imposes a preferential rate of two-thirds of the full rate on cut flowers imported from Commonwealth countries. Section 2 of the Finance (Customs Duties) (No. 2) Act, 1932, originally provided that cut flowers from these countries should be free.

I suggest that, as the House will have an opportunity of discussing the principle of these motions when the Finance Bill comes before the Dáil in due course, it would be desirable to allow the Resolutions to go through to-day. I want to make it quite clear that no new duties are being imposed. It is merely to give the House an opportunity, at an early date, of discussing certain of the duties imposed by the Emergency Orders that they are being brought before the House in this way in order that they may form the basis of a Bill which will be submitted to the House in due course.

Have the rates been altered in any case?

Yes. In the case of pigs' meat there has been an alteration made in the case of lard.

What is the nature of the alteration?

Lard other than the lard imported for the making of margarine. When the Tariff Commission sat to consider the question of bacon they had evidence from the manufacturers of margarine asking that neutral lard be allowed in free of duty. That still holds; that will be allowed in free. There is no other alteration until we come to vegetables. Vegetables are divided into three or four categories now. All vegetables under the emergency tariff had a duty of 1/- per lb. and 8d. preferential. After consultation with those interested in the vegetable trade, growers, market gardeners, glasshouse vegetable growers, those tinning vegetables, those engaged in the distribution of vegetables, and also some representatives of the hotels, we tried to come to an agreement as far as we could as to the classification. Common vegetables that can be produced in this country to the extent required, such as cauliflowers, broccoli, cabbages, brussels sprouts, listed under (a) have an almost prohibitive tariff of 1/- and 8d. There are then in (b), (c), (d) and (e) what we might call seasonal vegetables where the tariff is high during the season that they are produced in this country and low at the time they must be imported and cannot be produced here. There are dates given, from 1st December to 31st March, during which lettuce may be imported at the lower rate. In the same way, we are dealing with French beans, runner beans, peas and carrots. They can be imported at the lower rate from 1st April to 31st May. Otherwise, the duty of 1/- and 8d. holds for these. There is a proposal to tariff tomatoes and cucumbers which will not commence, however, until 1st June, 1933. It is to give notice to the growers of tomatoes that the home market will be protected to a certain extent for the home-grown tomatoes when they come in next season. All other fresh vegetables, which would include such vegetables as asparagus, rhubarb, seakale, and some vegetables not produced here to any extent, will be allowed in at a rate of 6d. and 4d. Dried vegetables will bear the higher rate with certain exceptions, such as onions, shallots, garlic, lentils, beans and peas, dried thyme, sage and mint. Then there are the soups and all preparations consisting wholly or mainly of vegetables which have a tariff of 6d. and 4d. There is one other class—rhubarb and mushrooms—which has a rate of 6d. and 4d.

Is that the same rate as is in existence?

That is lower than the existing rate. No rate has been raised, but a number have been lowered.

I should like to ask the Minister whether under reference No. 1 (a), pigs' meat, the recent tariff or customs duty placed on imported Danish heads is now removed. The Minister will recollect that a number of produce merchants and distributors waited on him some time ago with reference to this matter.

There is a different rate on pigs' heads under (b). I do not know if I understand the Deputy correctly as raising the question of pigs' heads in course of transit.

Danish heads.

That can be raised on the Finance Bill. It could not be raised now.

Is the Minister excluding these now?

There is a lower rate on heads under (b).

From what Commonwealth countries do we get cut flowers, and what sort of cut flowers? From what Commonwealth countries do we import potatoes?

I do not think from any at present, but we do not know where the Commonwealth might extend to.

We are making a remission with regard to things which do not come in?

Yes, if you like to put it that way.

That is a good line anyway.

I should like to ask in connection with 10 (a), are dried peas exempt.

Dried peas are exempt.

And lentils, beans and onions? So that all annual supplies can be imported after 31st December up to March, to cover the summer season.

Dried peas are exempt; fresh are not.

The quantity of fresh peas is limited.

Are not dried peas prohibited under the Cereals Bill?

Imported dried peas are in the Schedule here. Number (p) in the Schedule to the Cereals Bill prohibits the importation of dried peas at all.

Except under licence.

Except under licence?

But it is actually prohibited. A person cannot import peas at all without a special licence from the Minister.

As a matter of fact, those will be imported mainly by the importers of vegetables for tinning purposes and a licence will be given.

May I inquire whether the Minister is satisfied that peas would mainly be imported for tinning purposes? Is the Minister aware that there is an enormous trade all through the country in dried peas sold in packets?

As well, yes.

And for this purpose they would be imported free?

Yes, free.

And without a licence?

Under the Cereals Act they would have to have a licence I am sure.

They would not be feeding stuff?

They are in the Schedule.

Under what category would New Zealand peas for feeding pigeons come? What category are they under? Are they under licence, or under the Cereals Bill?

If the Deputy will look at the Cereals Bill he will see that we have enumerated live animals and we did not include pigeons in the live animals.

Does the Minister mean to say that peas for pigeon food can come in free?

Yes, as far as the Cereals Act is concerned they can come in free.

Is the Minister sure of that—because he has scheduled dried peas?

Yes. Look at the governing paragraph: "Asses, cattle, sheep, swine, goats or poultry, which pass in commerce under the designation of a proprietary or protected trade name."

The Minister has told me if I want to feed the citizens of the Irish Free State on peas I will have to get a licence from him to import them. If I want to feed pigeons instead of the citizens of the Irish Free State on dried peas, will I be able to import them without a licence, or must I get a licence from the Minister for Agriculture to import them? Does the Minister know?

They are free, but under the Cereals Act permission to import might be required.

So a pigeon feeder would have to get a licence from the Minister for Agriculture——

I think it is possible he would.

——to import any form of dried peas whereon to feed his pigeons?

Could the Minister say what variation he has made in No. 2, that is, on machinery for the manufacture of cheese? What reduction is being effected in that?

No reduction.

What is the object in the change? Why is it here?

There is no change made in it.

Why is it here? Why is it repeated?

It was an emergency duty up to this. It is being made a permanent duty.

Just another question. I see a cryptic explanation in Number 10: "In the Second Column at this reference number the word ‘vegetables' shall be construed as including tomatoes and cucumbers, and cognate words shall be construed accordingly." Would the Minister point out a "cognate word" that has been construed accordingly?

Vegetable soup.

Animal food.

May I ask under what provision of the Cereals Act are peas excluded?

I wish to say that Deputy Dockrell and I have inadvertently misled the Minister. The fault is mine exclusively because I omitted to read a word. The items mentioned in this long list are in fact excluded from the Schedule for which a permit is required.

They are excluded from the exclusions.

I join in the apology.

Resolution No. 1 agreed to.

No. 2 is a resolution which really applies to nothing.

The Deputy is not objecting?

I would like to have it further elucidated. I understood when the Minister was speaking that this Resolution had special reference, and I think the only reference, to cut flowers from the Commonwealth countries, and there are no potatoes coming from the Commonwealth countries.

Oh, there are.

My question was put about potatoes as well as cut flowers, and I got the same answer to both.

The Deputy did not make it clear that his question related to potatoes as well as cut flowers.

The only way I had of making it clear was by mentioning the word "potato" and in fact I did so.

But in fact you did not. You said "cut flowers."

It was possibly nonsensical to omit it, but the fact remains that you did.

It is the working of the Minister's mind which forms the difficulty. What Commonwealth country supplies us with potatoes, as I asked before, and when?

They have been coming from Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Oh, Great Britain is still in the Commonwealth.

It was, when we last heard of it.

I thought we had excluded her.

Is that the world the Deputy is living in?

Could we not cut out the reference—wherever it is, I do not see it—to the cut flowers, seeing that it does not aim at anything? Is there any fear of cut flowers coming from Commonwealth countries?

There is a fear that they may come from Great Britain.

Resolution No. 2 agreed to.
Resolution No. 3 agreed to.

Does the Minister desire to have these Resolutions reported?

Oh, no, we would like to have at least a week to consider this.

It is desirable to bring in the First Reading of the Bill to-morrow, and to take the Second Reading on 30th inst., so for that reason I think it well that it should be reported to-day. Next Wednesday will be the 30th.

And the Bill must be through by the 30th?

No, we want to take the Second Reading on the 30th.

For what reason?

The Bill will confirm certain industrial tariffs which were imposed by Resolution of the Dáil last month and early in the current month. The time table of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act is running rather against the motion.

What is the pivotal date?

Wednesday, 30th instant.

It is the passage of the Bill is pivotal. We can arrange to speed it up later if that is required. Let us have a date by which the House must get rid of the Bill, and surely in between we can arrange the stages to suit the convenience of Deputies.

Would it not be more convenient to report the Resolutions now and debate them on the Bill? Will we not be covering the ground again? On the Committee Stage of the Bill the House will have an opportunity of discussing and amending.

Could we not have this reported to-morrow at any rate?

What does No. 3 deal with at all?

Cut flowers. I am afraid the Deputy does not realise the difference between cut flowers and potatoes.

Report Stage ordered for to-morrow, Friday, 25th November.
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