I think it better to deal with Deputy Dillon's point first as to what is the most satisfactory fuel for those poor people. From the point of view of the Government's general policy, and of the particular purpose of this Estimate, the most satisfactory fuel is that fuel which, in this country, will afford the greatest relief of prevalent distress. That relief may be afforded in two ways. First of all by providing those who have no fuel with fuel of some sort, and, secondly, by affording those who have no means the opportunity of earning something by providing this fuel. These are the two purposes underlying this Estimate.
I should like, having said that, also to clear away the misapprehension which possibly the general tenor of Deputy Dillon's remarks may have engendered. The beneficiaries under this scheme will not have to pay anything for the fuel they secure. It will be given to them as a free gift. I am perfectly certain that in any house which was fireless last winter this gift, whatever the form of the fuel, whether it be coal or timber or turf, will be equally welcome. Speaking candidly, I assume that in Dublin turf will be the most convenient form in which that fuel can be provided. I know as one who has had experience the acute distress which want of fuel in cold weather may occasion. I assure Deputy Dillon many homes would be very glad last winter to have had such fuel and will be glad to have turf to put into any sort of grate for the coming winter. We have seen people going around delving in winter through all sorts of places trying to get coal or cinders to provide a fire. While it is not a standard that we are setting up, I can assure the Deputy that whatever inconvenience or disadvantage turf may labour under as compared with imported coal, that disadvantage will be gladly overlooked by those whose necessity compels them to look for fuel. In that connection I would say also it is not the intention of the Government to limit the recipients of fuel under this scheme to those in receipt of home assistance. We all can realise that there is a number of deserving people in the country who, for one reason or another, do not look for home assistance and who simply because they are not in a state of absolute destitution may not get home assistance, but who would be in a condition of such distress as would warrant some relief being given to them.
The intention is to administer this by existing agencies, both official in the shape of boards of health and child welfare bodies, and, unofficially, in the shape of charitable organisations. The details of the scheme, as I stated, require to be worked out. It is our desire, if possible, to get away from the idea of pauperism. We feel that £25,000 can be properly spent in providing fuel, in the first instance, and that the fuel they provide can equally well serve to relieve a considerable amount of distress which arises entirely through the fact that people who are unemployed and are in poor circumstances have, in winter, to forgo the comfort of a fire.
That is the main purpose underlying the Vote. It is introduced this year as an experiment. The amount is strictly limited. We propose to use that experiment this year in order to see if some practical scheme cannot, next winter, be hammered out, and put into operation. We have felt in considering this matter that there is no use wasting a lot of time working out a scheme which would be universally satisfactory. We decided that the best thing would be to take a comparatively small amount of money and to try and see how far the scheme could be made a practicable one, and if any imperfections or difficulties arise in the administration of this experimental sum during this year, if it is decided to go further with the matter, if the matter is worth further development, next year a much more definite proposal will be put before the House.
I may say quite frankly that we have learned from the experience of last year in connection with the distribution of the £100,000 Vote for the supply of milk to necessitous children. There were abuses. The decision to confine that to those in receipt of home assistance did lead in some cases to abuse. People who were not properly entitled to home assistance received a nominal amount of home assistance in order to entitle them to receive a supply of milk. In a similar way, because limitations were not imposed certain households received more than their due and proper supply. As I say, we have learned in that connection from experience of that grant and new regulations have been issued dealing with the question of the distribution of milk to necessitous people. We have initiated this as an experimental scheme, hoping to learn by experience, and with the feeling that it will fill a want in our social service, particularly in so far as distress in cities and urban areas is concerned, and next year we shall have much more definite proposals, possibly involving a greater amount of money, to submit to the Dáil.
