This Bill vests in the Minister the power to close prisons. He is given that power under Section 2. In that connection, I think the attention of the House should be drawn to the fact that the detention of convicted persons in prisons falls under two heads: juvenile and adult offenders.
In Committee On Finance—Money Resolution - Prisons Bill, 1933—Final Stages.
Question proposed: "That the Bill be received for Final Consideration."
The Deputy will see from the Title that this Bill deals solely with the closing of prisons and with the use, control and disposal of prisons which have been closed. Therefore, any discussion on the classification of prisoners or their treatment would be irrelevant to this measure.
This Bill is entitled: "An Act to amend the law relating to the closing of prisons and to the use, control and disposal of prisons which have been closed, and to make provision for other matters connected with the matters aforesaid." The first purpose of this Bill is to amend the law relating to the closing of prisons and to other matters connected with the closing of prisons. Section 2 of the Bill gives the Minister power to direct that any particular prison or any specified part of a particular prison shall be closed as on and from a specified date. That is a power which he can exercise in the future. Quite apart from this part of the Bill, it authorises the things that he may have done in the past. I submit that on the Report Stage we are entitled to consider the adequacy of the accommodation which, at present, is at the Minister's disposal.
I am prepared to hear the Deputy.
Therefore, I thought it right to draw the attention of the House to the fact that, in dealing with this question, we might imagine we were dealing with every case of detention under the control of the State, and that, in imagining so, this House would be mistaken. The House must bear in mind that, in making provisions under this Bill, they are dealing only with adult offenders and that the places of detention reserved for juvenile offenders are under the Department of Education. A peculiar anomaly arises because, while the commission of juvenile offenders to a place of detention is within the province of the Minister for Justice, the detention of juvenile offenders is in the province of the Minister for Education. Therefore, it becomes extremely difficult ever to find an appropriate occasion for raising the question of the adequacy of the accommodation provided by the Department of Education for the detention of juvenile offenders; and it occurred to me that a suggestion might be made here on this Bill that if, in the opinion of the Department of Justice, accommodation over and above what is provided by the Department of Education for the detention of juvenile persons was necessary, the Department of Justice might consider providing that accommodation. Accordingly, I take this opportunity of suggesting to the Minister for Justice the desirability of consulting with the Department of Education as to the expediency of either an inter-departmental commission or a parliamentary commission to consider the general question of prison accommodation, and accommodation for both juvenile and adult offenders. I believe that the deliberations of such a commission would be of material assistance both to the Department of Justice and the Department of Education. I believe that there is wide scope for improvement, and I believe that the two Departments responsible could be materially assisted if they would take counsel with a committee of this House or with such other commission as the Department saw fit to set up. I think I might be safe in saying that they would have no difficulty in finding persons interested in social work of this kind who would undertake the duties of carrying out such investigations as they thought necessary without fee or reward, and who would co-operate in every way they possibly could to relieve the Exchequer of any responsibility that the setting up of a commission of that kind might be expected ordinarily to incur. I would be glad to know from the Minister for Justice if he would examine the general question of the adequacy of the present places of detention for adult and juvenile offenders and if he would consider the desirability of securing the co-operation of the Minister for Education in setting up a commission to examine this whole question.
I do not know whether the matter the Deputy has raised is strictly relevant to this Bill but, at the same time, I have no objection to consulting with the Minister for Education. It may be possible to obtain some more information and to see if there is anything that may be necessary to be dealt with and to see in what way it would work out. I was aware that the Deputy would raise this matter from the speech he made on the Second Reading, and I asked the Minister for Education last evening about conditions obtaining in some of these places under his control. I shall get more information and consult with the Minister, and if we are satisfied that there are any grounds for setting up a commission that would serve a useful purpose I have no objection to doing so.
Question put and agreed to.
Question—"That the Bill do now pass"—put and agreed to.