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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 Jun 1934

Vol. 53 No. 3

In Committee on Finance. - Poultry (Diseases) Bill, 1934—Second Stage.

Dr. Ryan

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. It has been found that the spread of infectious avian disease is a serious hindrance to the maintenance and development of the poultry industry and that it is desirable that power should be obtained to control the importation of poultry, the separation of affected poultry, and notification of disease in poultry. It is intended to safeguard healthy flocks and to eliminate disease as far as practicable. The Diseases of Animals Acts, 1894 to 1914, will be amended to provide that the powers exercisable under these Acts in relation to animal disease may be applied to avian disease in so far as may be considered necessary. The Diseases of Animals Act, 1894, will have effect as if the word "animals" included poultry for the purpose of preventing the spreading of poultry diseases. The Minister may make orders applying to poultry such of the provisions of the Diseases of Animals Act, 1894 to 1914, as he may consider necessary, declaring any avian disease to be a disease of poultry for the purposes of the Act, requiring the separation of poultry affected with disease from poultry not so affected, and also the notification of disease in poultry, for regulating or prohibiting the importation of poultry, or eggs intended for hatching, or the use of imported eggs for hatching. Day old chicks will be regarded as poultry. Power will be taken to charge a fee for the work incidental to the importation of poultry.

Our experience in the Department— and, I may say, my experience personally, and I am sure it has been the experience of many Deputies here—is that whole stocks have been wiped out through certain poultry diseases. Recently—within the last few years in particular—they have been exterminated through a disease known as bacillary white diarrhoea in chickens. We intend to give facilities for blood testing to any person who is anxious for pure stock. For that purpose a veterinary surgeon, who will be a specialist in such things, will be appointed by the Department as a full-time official. So far as egg-laying and so on is concerned, we have a very good stock on record in this country. If that stock were free from disease, there is very little doubt that we would not be very long until we would be able to hold a very high place in the world as breeders of pedigree birds, and be able to get some of the advantageous prices that are going at present to Great Britain and America principally. Apart from the great economic advantage at home of saving our fowls from these diseases and preventing losses in that way, we would have the second economic advantage of getting those big prices, because we would then be able to guarantee them as absolutely free from disease. I think that the Bill is very simple, and that it is, as a matter of fact, merely a question of classing poultry as animals for the purposes of the Act. The Bill, as I say, is very simple, and I think it requires very little explanation from me.

I should like to ask the Minister whether or not he is sure that this disease, which is threatening the poultry industry so much in this country, is due to the stock, or whether there is any possibility of that disease having any connection with certain patent poultry meals or foods that are being sold in this country. Has any inquiry been made into that? I do not know whether it is correct or not, but experience has shown us—and when I say "us" I mean some of us who were in this business—that some of the poultry meals and other foods on the market had a definitely bad effect on the poultry themselves.

The Minister mentioned facilities that are to be given for blood testing. Will these tests be given free? Does it mean that all a person has to do is to send a specimen of blood to the inspector and that he will send it to a pathological expert to have it tested? We know, of course, that such a thing as disease exists in poultry as in animals, but in very many cases the explanation as to the origin of such diseases is obscure and hard to place. I remember that, some three or four years ago, there was a terrible outbreak of a disease among dogs. Everybody was trying to find out what was the cause of it. Ultimately, a lot of people arrived at the conclusion that it was due to a certain dog biscuit that was very well known on the market. I should say that this conclusion was unfounded and that the particular dog biscuit had nothing to do with the origin of the disease. I should say that there was some other explanation. However, in connection with what Deputy Minch said, I should like to know from the Minister whether or not any connection at all has been established between any of these artificial feeding-stuffs and this disease in poultry. I read of a case some months ago where one of the greatest poultry breeders in England, who had some hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of pedigree poultry, had his entire poultry farm wiped out through the disease. This man took certain drastic action. Apparently, this disease remains in the ground over which the chickens have been travelling. This man closed down the entire place and began afresh on new ground. He succeeded and was able to make good again. If the veterinary inspectors could corroborate a statement of that kind, I think it would be wise for the Department to adopt the suggestion that, where a pedigree flock of birds were all seriously affected by the disease and a large number lost, peremptory orders should be issued that that particular ground should be closed down entirely for a very considerable period.

The Minister says that the main purpose of this Bill is to class poultry as animals. I suggest that it has a larger purpose than that. With regard to this question of proposed facilities for blood testing, I suggest that the Minister should provide the services for pathological examination of the blood free. I think that any breeder should be at liberty to send the blood to Ballsbridge to get it tested at the expense of the State. It would be difficult and rather expensive on a person with a small flock of birds to take samples of blood and send them away to a veterinary pathologist. I suggest that he should not have to do so at his own expense. I think the State should supply that service free, and I believe that money spent by the State in that way would be well spent. Since we are classing poultry as animals for this purpose, I think it would be very wise to attend to that matter when we are passing this Bill.

Dr. Ryan

I have not heard that this disease is carried by certain foods, as Deputy Minch has stated. As a matter of fact, as far as I know—and I have come across some cases where the explanation of the origin of the disease was obscure—there was always a cause found on examination, either in the egg from which the poultry was produced or in the poultry themselves. In other words, it was always found that the disease came from infected stock where the disease appeared for the first time on a poultry farm. I do not think that it was ever suspected to be due to feeding stuffs.

I am glad that the Minister has cleared up that point, because it was rumoured in the country at the time that certain feeding stuffs were responsible for this mortality amongst poultry.

Dr. Ryan

The disease is very infectious and, as Deputy McMenamin says, the ground would become infected. Not alone the ground, but the different fittings, such as boxes, cages, incubators, feeding troughs, and so on, would also become infected. They would have to be disinfected.

I suggest that the Minister should make an order that, in the case of infection, all the boxes, traps, incubators, and so on, should be destroyed.

Dr. Ryan

Well, of course, as the Deputy knows, certain incubators are very expensive, and they are made in such a way that they can be disinfected very effectively. If our inspector is satisfied that an incubator has been properly disinfected, he will not ask, naturally, for its destruction. I think that the Deputy can rest assured that our officer will take every measure to see that the disinfecting process is made effective without creating any unnecessary loss or expenditure on the owner.

With regard to the question of a fee, I quite agree with Deputy McMenamin that poultry owners would not be inclined to pay any big fee. However, I think that a small fee might be useful in order to prevent people from using the free services too liberally, as they would use them, of course, if they were entirely free. Some small fee only will be prescribed. We have not yet decided what the fee will be, but we shall have to decide that before long. It will be prescribed by regulation. I think that Deputies will agree that where you give free service like that, it is sometimes abused. A small fee is useful in such a case. The fee will not be exorbitant.

Why should a small fee be useful? In all these cases where tests take place, such as water tests and blood tests where dispensary doctors are not sure whether typhoid or diphtheria germs may be present, the service is free. These pedigree flocks will be limited. It is a specialised job, and I do not think it would be worth while to charge a fee of any kind.

Dr. Ryan

In the case of water, the board of health pays for the test, and I think, in the case of blood, the board of health pays the fee of the pathologist.

The Minister should pay in this case.

Question put and agreed to.
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