Before I move this amendment I would like to explain that I submitted earlier another amendment which had for its object the making of East-Cork a four-member constituency. In doing so it was necessary to take a portion from North Cork. I realise now that that would be completely out of order. Lest it may be taken that that amendment meant in any way to deprive Waterford of its four members, I would like to give this explanation, because I believe Waterford is entitled to be a four-member constituency and I am going to make no attempt to lessen its representation. I move the amendment in my name to exclude Youghal Urban and Rural from the Waterford constituency. In doing so I have in mind the principles laid down by the Minister, on the introduction of the Bill, for his guidance as to the future. He said that, as far as he could, he would retain county boundaries, historical associations and unified national and administrative activities. I submit, in the case of Youghal, it completely conflicts with all the principles laid down by the Minister.
Before taking up the argument in favour of the amendment, I wish to deny some of the statements made here, first, that there was any attempt by the people of County Waterford, no matter whom they represent, to grab a portion of a Cork constituency, or that there was any traditional hostility between the people of Cork and the people of Waterford. Many of our public men in Youghal, some of our most appreciated and respected citizens, themselves or their immediate parents, originated in that county. The best possible relations exist, as they should always exist, between the peoples of those neighbouring counties. You have had submitted to you resolutions from the Youghal Urban Council and the Cork County Council in opposition to the Minister's proposal in this Bill. Both these bodies are opposed to it. Particularly let me mention that the man who presided on the night the Youghal resolution was passed is a supporter of the Minister, and no man could speak more strongly against the Minister's proposal. The Cork County Council, likewise, took up the same attitude. They, too, want continued the associations that always existed between Youghal and the people of the neighbouring counties.
We are not opposed to going into Waterford through any feeling of hostility. Waterford is a county that has great national traditions. It is the home of many of our country's most distinguished men. We, as fellow Irishmen, feel proud of that. We readily grant them all they claim for their county, national and unified control: we enthusiastically support them there. But surely this House will find no fault with us if we say that what we readily grant and are prepared to support for Waterford, we demand for ourselves? The Minister says that in East Cork and County Waterford they have not sufficient electors to entitle both to four-member constituencies. East Cork has 79,000 electors and Waterford has something over 78,000. The Minister's plan is to take Youghal and its immediate neighbourhood and transfer them to the County Waterford, thus providing a sufficient electorate to entitle Waterford to a four-member constituency. In doing so he cuts across every principle laid down for his own guidance. He claims that he is dominated by the Constitution. The Constitution lays down a minimum of 20,000 and a maximum of 30,000. Waterford falls short by a few hundred votes of the required number that would entitle it to a four-member constituency. I am not going to put up the argument that East Cork has a bigger right than Waterford and would be more entitled to a four-member constituency.
In Cork we have 18 members, and it has been frequently demonstrated in this House that that number can always be relied upon to advance or protect the county's interests. I am not going to be selfish enough to try to lessen Waterford's representation to the advantage of Cork. The case for the amendment is to leave Youghal in East Cork and East Cork a three-member constituency. We will have 26,000 electors to each representative, a figure which complies with the Constitution. Waterford will have 19,800 and it is clearly a matter of choice whether the Minister is to be governed by the principles he laid down for his own guidance on the introduction of this Bill—the retention of county boundaries, the holding together of administrative and national interests as a unit and the preservation of historical associations and background —or whether he is so slightly to infringe the Constitution that it is hardly noticeable. We have 19,800 voters as against 20,000 and it is a figure which, in all probability, is at the moment rectified, because the Minister must bear in mind that the additions this year to the franchise in the Saorstát number at least 50,000, and Waterford will have its share of those. Probably it has now, on this franchise, reached more than the minimum that entitles it to a four-member constituency, without the inclusion of Youghal.
I do not know what the Minister's choice may be, but I am satisfied that the unfettered opinion of everyone in this House will support my contention. I am equally satisfied that all independent opinion outside this House that has considered this question and that clearly understands and appreciates the motives of this amendment, will be prepared to support it. I will ask the Minister earnestly to consider it. If the Minister still maintains that, according to the Constitution, that cannot be done, one would be almost tempted to ask the Minister when he developed this oriental submission to and reverence for the Constitution, particularly as the very words in the Act are "as near as possible." I suggest that by accepting my amendment your primary object, the reduction of a member, would be maintained.
In order to concentrate the mind of the House on what has been done in our case, I would like to draw a comparison between Limerick City and ourselves. Limerick City is much closer to Clare than we are in the case of Waterford and East Cork. It is bound up with Clare by half a dozen bridges. Many of its suburbs are in the County of Clare. I wonder what would be the feeling of indignation of the people of Limerick if the Minister were to do there what he is doing with us, if he were to transfer Limerick City, Sarsfield's City, and make it portion of a Clare constituency? I venture to say that even the supporters of the Minister, if they were to support an action of that kind, would not long represent an outraged and indignant people. I sincerely hope that this House will not consider that we feel too intensely about this matter, or that we have too great a regard for our historical past; yet I will submit that you can hardly realise the affection we have for our town and all that concerns it.
A few evenings back I was walking beneath the old town walls that towered over my head, their massive structure defying time, the old cannons still in place, eloquent monuments to the determination of former generations of our townsmen in the struggle to retain their individuality. Look where you will there, you will see the ruins of abbeys, friaries, the remains of monasteries; you will see our college, the first in later times that was established in this State and that is still in being—all silent witnesses, if you like, of our spiritual and intellectual past. In all ages the people of that town have taken part, and a prominent part, in the struggle for national and religious liberty. Each hallowed spot there has its own history of sacrifice on the altar of both. I would despise myself if any word or act of mine tended in the smallest degree to revive any bitter memories. I have nothing but contempt for the mind that wallows in traditions of hatred and creeds of revenge in the broader atmosphere of to-day, of better understanding, mutual appreciation and respect.
For over 700 years we have been a corporate town, always having our own representatives. Isaac Butt, one of its members, framed the first Home Rule Bill. Many of its townspeople were leaders in the '67 movement. It was the centre of the land agitation. I remember, as a child, seeing its revered pastor, the late Monsignor, then Father Keller, led out a prisoner to be lodged in Kilmainham. Visualising all this, no wonder we feel deeply that we who survived the occupation and domination of Cromwell should in this, our own day, by the act of a Minister of a National Government created by our own people, be torn ruthlessly from all our historical past, as little considered as if we were merely an addition to a labourer's half-acre, and thrown to a neighbouring county across the Black-water at its widest portion, where it is a mile wide, taking with us one of the neighbouring villages, Ballymacoda, the birthplace, cradle and burial place of Peter O'Neill Crowley and many of the young men who gave their lives in the late movement.
I view this Act, and many other measures, as expediency measures, having no element of permanency in them. I regard the welter of brutal passion, which nowadays masquerades as patriotic or national activities, as a transitory phase. Reason will yet reassert itself and the real characteristics of our people will declare themselves and, as becomes a Christian nation, we will concentrate our energies on the only victories which will leave no regret—victories over vices, ignorance and inhuman conditions of life. When that time comes, we desire to take our place in the midst of our old associations, which will be to us an inspiration and guide. (Interruption). I would like to say that the person who is entirely dissociated from this country, the person whose appearance is so very objectionable, ought, at least, to pay me the honour of listening to me in silence. I have listened in silence and contempt to him.