I rise to support this motion standing on the Order Paper in the names of Deputies McGovern and O'Donovan. I do believe that demonstration farms of this sort would be of the greatest advantage to the farming community. First of all, I should like to see the work taken over by the agricultural instructors, or by somebody selected by the Minister for Agriculture, who, he thinks, would be in a position to give us information that would lead us to the position of being able to make our farms pay under present conditions. That is why I am in favour of these demonstration farms. In the past, I may say that we got a good deal of useful information and instruction from the agricultural instructors in the country, and farmers who gave special attention to the information and instruction given by those instructors got quite decent returns from their information. However, with regard to the manner in which demonstration plots have been run in the past, I do think a big improvement could be made in that direction by asking these instructors now to take over farms of their own and work them in such a way as would be an education to us from the point of view of improvement and in such a way as that at the end of the year they would be able to meet their liabilities and obligations. That is what we cannot do at present and that is our trouble. Even the best farmers in this country are complaining to me that they cannot pay their way or meet their obligations because of the present agricultural policy of the Government. We want a change, and the change is necessary. Therefore, I would ask the Minister to agree to this motion and to set up a number of farms in the different counties. I do not ask him to go into it in a large way; he could have one or two farms in each county worked and managed by agricultural instructors or some other person who he thinks might be able to enlighten us as to the best means of working our farms.
When he had taken over one of these farms, we would like to see how he would lay out that farm; how many acres he would till; how many he would meadow; and how many he would graze; what number of stock he could keep on the farm, with their breeding, feeding and keep, so that, at the end of the year, he could prove to us that his up-to-date methods would give such a return as would enable him to pay his way. We could do many things on our farms which would make them look more up to date, so that others looking at them would say: "This farm is well managed and well kept"; but on account of weather conditions and want of capital we cannot work our farms to the best advantage for ourselves and for our children and to the best advantage for this country.
I should like to see mixed farming carried out on these demonstration farms if the Minister decided to take them over, so that farmers who are more or less on tillage land, as well as those on the better class land, grazing and dairying land, would have an opportunity of seeing how to breed, and to feed and to get the best results from cattle, sheep and pigs and from tillage of the land. The rotation of crops is very important and, to begin with, I should like to see the agricultural instructor going into a field and marking it out and ploughing it so as to get the best results from the crop to be sown there. I should like to see the number of yards between the different furrows, the breadth of the furrows and the breadth of the centres, and how that would be done by some of the agricultural instructors and by some of the people who are fond of instructing us day after day on how to manage our farms.
The Minister himself might give us a demonstration on some of those farms whenever he got the opportunity. He comes from a farming community himself and I have no doubt that in his younger days, before he left his old home—I believe he still has a farm—he had a good deal of experience in the working of a farm, and I should like to see him giving a demonstration with the plough. We who were reared on the land and who have given all the attention we think necessary to farming to the best advantage to ourselves, would like to get further information which would enable us to carry out that work to the best advantage to ourselves and, at the same time, enable us to pay for the extra work done. In the ploughing and tilling of land and its preparation for the crop a good deal of skill is required, and I should like to see a demonstration of this by some of these agricultural instructors who could point out to us where in the past we have made mistakes.
I should also like to follow the rotation of crops. I should like to see the first crop put into the land—oats, barley, wheat or perhaps a root crop—and to follow that rotation so that decent results would be obtained year after year for a period of four or five years. It is the aim of every good farmer in this country to have his land, when that rotation is finished, in a better condition than it was in on the first day he put the plough in it, so that if he wants a second rotation he will get as good results as he got from the first. An experiment for one year or two years, to my mind, is useless. If a farmer gets into a fairly decently managed farm, a farm which has been well cared for over the past forty or fifty years, there is no doubt whatever that he can get good results for one, two and perhaps three years, while the land is able to stand up to the different crops one year after another without proper manuring, but, after the third year, I should like to see how the farm would be managed for another period of three or four years.
I know that, as things are at the moment, to wait for another five or six years would be rather long. I honestly tell the Minister that we cannot stand the strain for another five or six years, and the Minister will realise that if he makes any attempt to inquire from the farmers in his own constituency, County Wexford, which is a tillage county, where you have as good farmers as there are in any other part of the Free State. In Kilkenny, we are farmers who work our farms more or less on the mixed farming system, and I do think it is the best method of farming. We can get fairly decent results from it if we are given a chance to get these results, but the wages we can pay to our workers, in present conditions, and what we have for ourselves are not sufficient to keep ourselves and our families in any sort of decent standard of comfort.
I am strongly in favour of these demonstration farms. A good deal of useful information can be given by the instructors or by whomever the Minister might appoint to work those farms. Five or six years at least should be the shortest term, and, during that time, the different crops put into the land would form useful information for us and we could be shown that the up-to-date methods used by the instructors would provide a decent result financially for the extra labour entailed in turning out these crops in an up-to-date manner. We can grow a few more barrels of oats or barley or wheat by more attention and more manuring, but whether a couple of barrels to the acre would pay the extra cost for the extra attention and manuring is another matter for consideration. To carry out farming as I would like to see it carried out by the mixed farming system, I have no doubt this would be very instructive for the farmers, provided the instructor was able to prove at the end of the term that he was able to make the farm pay and give a fair return. Otherwise the demonstration, no matter what might be the good results of the crops turned out per acre, would be of very little use. It must be able to show a certain amount of profit over the cost of production.
Then there is the dairying side and the rearing of young stock, to which I know the Minister is somewhat opposed. I tell the Minister, as I told him before, that you cannot farm successfully without a considerable number of young stock and dairying cows on your farm, as well as manuring the land and caring your farm properly. Mixed farming, to my mind, is the best and most suitable method. To do that you must have a considerable number of young stock on the farm. While that particular branch of the industry is handicapped so much, I think it will be a problem even for the most skilled person to manage a farm and make it pay.
I ask the Minister to give his consideration to these matters. We would be glad if he would show us, through his instructors, how we can make our farms pay under present conditions. An effort in that direction would be very helpful to us. I do say to the Minister that under his agricultural policy we find it impossible to meet our obligations. He may be trying to help one particular branch of farming, such as the growing of wheat, but the growing of wheat on any farm is limited, if the condition of the farm is to be kept up to the standard required. If you had 100 acres of land, you could grow 40 or 50 acres of wheat for a few years, but then the question arises: what is to be done with that land; how are you to bring it back to any sort of decent condition, such as it was in before you started to plough? We farmers intend to live on our farms. It has always been our intention to improve our farms and hand them over in such condition to our children that they will be able to make a living out of them. We do not want to hand them over impoverished farms, but farms that are in fairly decent condition, so that they may be able to make a living out of them. We do not want to have our children handicapped when starting in life.
The tillage policy of the Government, to my mind, will lead many farmers, owing to want of capital, to run out their farms to a very great extent. The passage of time, of course, will put an end to that sort of management. I am not opposed to the growing of wheat or beet. I have been growing wheat since I was a boy and I know what it means. I know the extra labour that will have to be put into the growing of wheat, as compared with the growing of barley or oats or any other crop. I know what it will mean to prepare the ground for the following crops, especially after winter wheat, as compared with preparing the ground after either oats or barley. We have to be very careful as to the number of acres we will plough on our farms every year. I should like to see, by means of the farms taken over by the agricultural instructors, how we can till more and produce more and at the same time maintain our farms and keep them up to the same standard they were in before. Growing wheat and beet means growing the best of a bad lot. Growing a certain amount of wheat and beet, which a man can manure and grow with success is a good thing, but where a man is forced, because of the economic conditions, to grow more wheat than he is in a position to manure the land after, and bring it back into the same condition as it was in before he ploughed it, is a bad practice, because after some years that farm will be in such a condition that it will hardly pay anyone to try and make a living out of it.
I appeal to the Minister to give us an opportunity, through his instructors, of seeing what he could do in managing a farm at present so as to make it pay, and thus put the farmers in a position to meet their liabilities, which they are not able to do at the moment, largely due to the agricultural policy of the Minister. He may be able to help the growing of wheat and beet, but I can tell him that he has killed the one branch of farming worth catering for in this country and on which we depended most—the live-stock branch of our industry.