asked the Minister for Education if he will state (1) the number of national schools in the City of Dublin which have more young persons in attendance than the regulations permit; (2) the extent to which this state of affairs has decreased or increased during the period between the 31st March, 1934, to the present date; and further (3) what steps have been taken by his Department effectively to deal with this question of overcrowding in our city schools which is undermining the health and education of the pupils in attendance.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Overcrowding in Dublin Schools.
I would refer the Deputy to the answer given by me to his question on the 10th April last in regard to the number of primary schools in the city in which overcrowding exists. I stated then that there were in 1933-34 86 schools in which the
"mean" between the average attendance of pupils and the average number on rolls was in excess of the floor space, but that in about 40 of these schools the excess was inconsiderable. The statistical returns for the year ended 30th June, 1935, show that there were 76 schools in which the "mean" attendance was still in excess of the accommodation, but that in about 32 of these schools the overcrowding was not considerable.
My Department is fully alive to the need for the provision of adequate and suitable school accommodation in Dublin, and is taking all necessary steps with a view to having such accommodation provided as early as possible.
Within the past two years Grants-in-Aid amounting to the sum of £81,000 approximately have been sanctioned for the provision of four new schools in the city and suburbs and for extensive schemes of reconstruction and enlargement of four existing schools.
In addition my Department has under consideration proposals for the erection of several new schools in the outlying districts and in city parishes which will involve State Grants-in-Aid to the extent of £145,000. The erection of the new buildings in some of these cases will be begun early in the new year.
On completion of this programme it is to be expected that the accommodation in Dublin for primary school children will then be adequate.
In view of the fact that a large number of children belonging to families in the new areas are not going to school at all, because the distance they would have to travel to their original schools is too far and the local schools cannot take them, and that others are travelling to their old schools under the greatest possible hardship, particularly in wet weather, will the Minister, in view of these conditions that exist to a very large extent in the city, consider the question of providing free transport from some of the newer built areas into the heart of the city to the old schools? The matter is an urgent one and very considerable hardship has been caused even within the last month.
So far as it has been possible to do so, provision has been made for the accommodation of the younger children in the new areas and negotiations are on foot for the provision of accommodation within easy reach of the new areas for the older children. I would point out to the Deputy that there are certain limits in regard to distance laid down by the School Attendance Act, 1926, and within these limits I would have no power to sanction financial provision being made for the transport of children. Even outside the limits laid down in the Act, it is questionable whether we would not be establishing a new and undesirable precedent if we were to finance the transport of children upon routes on which there is a satisfactory transport service already. I should like to say, as the matter has been raised, that I have caused inquiries to be made into the matter and, even if the difficulties I have adverted to could be got over, there is the further difficulty that the people who are moving into these new areas come from very widely distributed areas in the City of Dublin. It would be utterly impossible to provide a transport service by which they could all continue in the schools which they had been originally attending. I would suggest to the Deputy that those who are interested in the matter should take steps to see that the managerial authority is approached in connection with the matter, as I feel confident that negotiations between this authority and the transport companies would bring about some solution of the present difficulties.
Will the Minister say if he would invite from either the managers or the principal teachers of the schools in the city a statement of the extent to which the problem I mention exists with a view to his having a full picture of the whole situation in the city?
I have told the Deputy that I have caused inquiries to be made and I find that these children come from widely distributed areas, so that it would be almost impossible to provide transport services. In addition to that the Deputy must be aware that this is an entirely new request which is being made. I have only to say in conclusion that I wish in this matter efforts would not be made to place all the blame upon the Department of Education, but that that Department should have the co-operation to which it is entitled from the other interests involved.
I should like the Minister to understand that it is not a question of placing blame, but of knowing that a problem exists. Is it not a fact that when large new areas are built in the city the problem will always exist for an intermediate period before new schools can be built? If the Minister's only difficulty is that one particular Act prevents him spending money in one way on the transport of children to schools, is there not another Act which compels children to receive primary education? There are children of 10, 11, 12, and 13 years of age not going to school at present. There are others of four and five getting drenched on wet mornings by having to go long distances into the city.
I can only hope that in any future housing schemes which are planned in outlying districts more attention will be paid to this problem and that the situation will not be allowed to develop as it has done in these cases; that other authorities, who should have taken cognisance of the situation and taken steps to meet it, instead of doing so, try to place the blame on my Department.
Might I ask the Minister to consider making representations to the tramways company to introduce penny fares for the children attending schools in the city? If he would, I am satisfied that it would meet the situation which has arisen.
I might ask the Deputy what authority he has for saying that the tramways company are prepared to meet the situation?
I say that at the present time children are getting drenched going to school owing to the high fares charged by the tramways company. The proposition has been put up to the Minister, and I am sorry to say that he has taken it in a different way from that intended. It would be no harm for his Department to write to the tramways company and ask them to facilitate the people by providing the transport to which they are entitled.
I have no control over the tramways company.
It is not a question of control, but of making representations.
That has been done.
It is very unfortunate in an important matter like this that the Minister would take this type of question in the spirit in which he is taking it. I say that, because this is rather hard on the parents who have children going to school. There is a problem there and there is no one blaming the Minister. We are all anxious that the Minister would review the problem of overcrowding in the schools and do what he can to help the people who are making an effort to have their children educated.