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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Mar 1936

Vol. 61 No. 2

In Committee on Finance. - Adjournment—Division of Land in Mayo.

With your permission to-day at Question time, I gave notice that I would raise the matter of the very unsatisfactory reply which was given by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Lands to the question which I put to him relating to the division of a farm of land in the Country Mayo. The facts will show that there is very little room for dispute or for justification for the Parliamentary Secretary's attitude. He certainly did not attempt any justification and I do not see how he can attempt it to-night. The facts are these:—Certain lands at a place called Brize, situate between Claremorris and Balla, in the County Mayo, were taken over compulsorily by the Irish Land Commission. It was on the property of Senator MacEllin and another.

To begin with, the Land Commission proceeded to act in a perfectly right, justifiable and proper fashion, and they did act in a proper fashion and justifiable fashion. That, however, did not please certain persons. The original plan was completely and entirely upset. Around these lands there are various townlands upon which there are people living upon small holdings of land. There are two townlands, one of them called Coolaghbawn and the other Derrowel. The original plan of the Land Commission was to take two men, one from each of these two townlands. These two men had each in these townlands a small holding of land. The two men are the men whom I mentioned in my question to-day. One man is Lavin of Coolaghbawn, and the other is Higgins of Derrowel. These men were appointed by the inspectors of the Land Commission, and holdings were to be allotted to them in exchange for holdings which they were surrendering. They actually signed, as I was informed, purchase agreements. The fact that they signed purchase agreements was denied by the Parliamentary Secretary to-day. But having regard to the answers which were made to me yesterday, completely contradicting the previous answers which had been given, I am afraid that the Parliamentary Secretary is not always supplied with correct information when he is answering questions in this House.

I prefer to believe the information that I have received—that these men were not only appointed to these holdings, but that they actually signed purchase agreements for them. Suddenly the whole thing was upset. Why? That is what I would like the Parliamentary Secretary to explain. What occurred? What underhand influence was at work? I want to know when quite a proper scheme is arranged by the Land Commission officials, how it can be completely set aside? What happened? Five unmarried young men from the neighbourhood are given part of these lands. These men are not even owners of holdings of land. They are merely, at the best, farmers' sons. These are the men who are selected and given five holdings on these particular lands. They are unmarried young men with no ties to bind them to this country. They can put up the holdings for sale to-morrow, put the purchase money in their pocket and clear away. Yet these men are selected by the Parliamentary Secretary as being fit and proper persons to receive land to the detriment of small holders in the neighbourhood whom the Land Commission officials had known to be fit and proper persons, and who obviously were fit and proper persons to receive part of these farms of land.

How were these men selected? What particular file and on what grounds did the Parliamentary Secretary pick them? I ask the Parliamentary Secretary if he is aware that one of these men is not a farmer at all? He may be a farmer's son. He had been manager of a co-operative store which got burned, and then I understand he was doing some clerical work in the county council offices. He is one of the men selected to get a holding of land while the congests and small-holders around are not given any portion. I have dealt with the two townlands of Coolaghbawn and Derrowel. The congests there naturally expected and were entitled to expect that when a large farm in their neighbourhood had been broken up, they would receive additions to their own lands. Or else they expected that, by the transmigration of their neighbours to other land, the neighbours' land would be divided between them. Anyhow these men did not receive any benefit.

There is another townland also in that neighbourhood called Knocknakill. That is a townland in which there is very little arable land indeed, so much so that the inhabitants have been for years past in the habit of going outside and buying con-acre on the larger farms about them. When these large farms had been acquired and broken up the small-holders in Knocknakill might reasonably expect to receive portions of tillage land so that their farms could be properly balanced and properly worked. But these people are not going to receive a perch of these tillage lands. The Parliamentary Secretary has arbitrarily selected instead five young men with no claims to these townlands. They are given these holdings because they are special favourites of some individuals who can bring influence to bear on the Parliamentary Secretary. That seems to me to be the only possible explanation of how the original sound plan provided by the Land Commission was set aside.

I cannot digress into other matters which I have already raised on the adjournment here. But I point this out as cumulative to the other matters I have raised as to the distribution of land in the County Mayo. It is the primary duty of the Land Commission under the Statute which this House has passed, the Land Act of 1933, to relieve congestion. That is the primary idea which underlies the whole of our land code now. It is the main principle which has been accepted by every Party in this State. It was a principle that was accepted before there was self-government here. The policy of the old Congested Districts Board for dealing with congestion was to acquire large farms for the purpose of relieving the congests.

Now we discover the Parliamentary Secretary acting—I will go no further than this—with very doubtful legality, and certainly acting against the entire spirit of the land code, and proceeding to choose haphazard individuals who are landless, who are unmarried and who have no claims at all upon this land. I should like to know what his explanations are. I am perfectly aware that, as he stated to-day, two workmen who were working on this farm received land. So far as that is concerned, I am not raising any question. It was correct and proper and that must have been in the original plan drafted by the local officers. What I do object to, and what, in my judgment, amounts to a scandalous misuse of the powers of the Land Commission, is this giving of these holdings of land to these five unmarried young men and leaving the men who are living in the vicinity, who are looking forward to getting portions of this land and endeavouring to rear their families and to support themselves and their families as best they can out of their small holdings, without land. It is an abuse of power, not merely against the spirit, but, in my opinion, against the very letter of the Land Acts, and I am anxious to hear how the Parliamentary Secretary will justify, or should I say, attempt to justify, this very extraordinary and highly improper proceeding.

I wish to ask the Parliamentary Secretary a few questions which I hope he will answer when replying. He is aware that the Irish Land Commission agreed with Thomas Lavan, Coolaghbawn, and Thomas Higgins, Derrowel, to give them new holdings on the MacEllin farm at Barneygreggaun, Claremorris, in exchange for their existing holdings, which then would be divided among their neighbours, and that agreements were signed by these men last August. These men were then told to be ready to migrate early in the new year. They have incurred considerable expense in making preparations for moving into the new holdings. Will the Land Commission now come to their rescue and defray the costs and expenses incurred by these men? Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that acute congestion exists in the townlands of Coolaghbawn and Derrowel from which these men were about to be migrated?

Does he know that there are a large number of tenants with large families whose valuations are under £7 living in those villages, who were looking forward to getting additions to their holdings out of the lands to be surrendered by Messrs. Lavan and Higgins, and will he have the provisional scheme for division referred back to the Land Commission? He must now be aware of the number of petitions that were forwarded to the Land Commission from the townlands of Knocknakill, Facefield, and other townlands adjoining the MacEllin farm requesting additions to their holdings, as their holdings cannot be cultivated on account of the rocky surface of that area. Perhaps he will tell us if it is the Land Commission or the Department of Justice is paying the Civic Guards for watching those lands since they were divided. I mentioned in this House when we protested against the action of the Land Commission in giving land to a dispensary doctor in Hollymount and to two school teachers that if we were going to have a recurrence of agrarian crime in County Mayo the Land Commission and the Government would be responsible. Could the Parliamentary Secretary tell the House the number of grazing ranches in South Mayo now under police protection due to the failure of the Land Commission to do its duty?

That is a separate question. It has nothing to do with the question on the Order Paper.

I quite understand that. The Parliamentary Secretary must be very well aware that petitions were sent from all these townlands in the vicinity of the MacEllin farm during the last year. Promises were held out to those people by the Land Commission inspector who went there that they would, first of all, see that only tenants with large families, who would be in a position to give up large tracts of land in the vicinity, which would be afterwards divided amongst the congests in that area would be migrated. He knows very well that that has been happening for some time, and I think it is nearly time the Parliamentary Secretary took some action against the Land Commission so that there will not be a recurrence of what happened in Hollymount six or eight months ago. He must also know from the Department of Justice that the Civic Guards are on those lands ever since the Land Commission divided them and, as I said before, you are going to have a recurrence of agrarian crime if the Land Commission continues that class of work in Mayo or in any other county.

It was not my intention to intervene in this debate at all, but, on account of certain statements made and certain impressions that may have been created, it might be well if I said something. I want it to be understood that I have nothing to do with this land division beyond this fact —and I do not run away from it—that I gave a recommendation to one man who did get land, as I am quite aware that it has been the custom of the Land Commission for the past year at least to give land to landless men in Tipperary, the midlands and other portions of the Free State. The man to whom Deputy Fitzgerald-Kenney refers came to me, and I gave him a recommendation for land, as I was aware that he had a fair amount of capital. I want that clearly understood. I was as much against giving land to any of the other landless men who got land in Brize as Deputy Fitzgerald-Kenney and Deputy Nally. I will go further and say that I supported the application of Higgins for land in MacEllin's farm at Brize, because the people of that district made representations to me that the bringing out of Higgins would relieve a considerable number of them.

I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to give me and the other Mayo Deputies a guarantee that what has been done in Brize will not be continued in Mayo. I am not against the principle of giving land to landless men where land is available, but it is not available in County Mayo, and if this practice is continued, I agree with Deputy Nally that it will give rise to trouble, and serious trouble. I therefore appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to bring his influence to bear against continuing the practice, as it will mean the creation of a very serious situation in the county. This has created considerable trouble, and what Deputy Nally says is true. The Civic Guards are there and will probably have to continue there. It has created a very ugly situation, and if there is any method, within the powers of the Parliamentary Secretary or the Land Commission, of righting the matter, I appeal to them to do so.

Would the Deputy give the Parliamentary Secretary ten minutes in which to reply?

I would appeal to him to make some provision whereby the local uneconomic holders will be satisfied and something done for them.

As usual, Deputy Fitzgerald-Kenney tries to make political capital out of every case he raises here, and especially in connection with land division. That particular Deputy knows, at least as well as any other Deputy or any person in this country, that the Parliamentary Secretary, or the Minister, for that matter, has no right to interfere in the determination of allottees in the case of any lands which are to be divided. As a matter of fact, for the first time in the Land Act of 1933, the Minister took special care to divest himself of any such powers or of any right of interference with the decision of the commissioners. I shall not deal further with the ugly insinuations and allegations of the Deputy.

With regard to these alleged purchase agreements signed by the two tenants to whom the Deputy had referred, Messrs. Lavan and Higgins, no purchase agreements were signed. Undertakings to migrate were signed at the instigation of the local inspector but when the commissioners came to peruse the scheme, they, in their wisdom, decided that other allocations of the land should be made. As I have stated, it was not a matter in which either the Minister or myself could possibly interfere. The Deputy and Deputy Nally referred to a townland called Knocknakill from which a petition had been submitted to the Land Commission on behalf of the congests there. I have before me a list of these congests or, rather, to be more accurate, of these tenants. The first of these is John Barnicle, whose valuation is £20 18s. 0d. The list goes on: Thomas Ruane, valuation £19 15s. 0d.; John Reilly, valuation £15 0s. 0d.; Thomas Lavin, valuation £15 15s. 0d.; James Biesty, valuation £16 5s. 0d.; Michael Higgins, valuation £16 0s. 0d.; Michael Tuohy, valuation £15 10s. 0d.; Pat Kilcourse, valuation £18 2s. 0d.; John Conlon, valuation £17 14s. 0d.; Robert Quinn, valuation £16 15s. 0d.; Edward Goodwin, valuation £15 0s. 0d.; John Moran, valuation £17 15s. 0d.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that they are short of tillage land and that their land is rocky? That is the point I made.

It would amaze me to find such valuations on rocky land. The valuation I should say works out at an average of 10/- per acre, which compares favourably, or even more than favourably, with the valuation of any other land in Mayo.

What is Mr. Biesty's valuation, may I ask? His son got a holding.

The valuation of James Biesty is £16 5s. 0d.

Why did his son get a holding?

He was an employee on the estate.

I have already dealt with the points raised by Deputy Nally.

Have you got the valuations of the tenants in Coolaghbaun and Facefield?

I would say that Deputy Fitzgerald-Kenney was rather unfortunate in selecting Knocknakill for his case. He took the wrong one.

Knocknakill was the townland specially referred to by Deputy Nally and for that reason I took pains to find out what the position there was and it is as I have stated. I did not have time to look up the details in regard to the other townlands. It would be well nigh impossible to give a list of all the applicants in the time at my disposal. There were 27 applications altogether, some of them from persons living 50 miles distant from the land. It could be argued, and reasonably argued, that it would be perhaps wiser to migrate one or two of the tenants and to divide their holdings amongst others. I agree that that argument is sound but the Commissioners in their wisdom decided otherwise. Perhaps if I had the decision I would not decide the matter in that way. Deputy Walsh has expressed views which coincide with those of the Opposition Deputies. All I can say in response to Deputy Walsh's suggestion is that I shall have the matter brought to the notice of the Commissioners with a view to having that point considered. Beyond that I cannot go. I have no power to dictate to the Commissioners what their decision should be. These powers, whether wisely or unwisely, were taken from the Minister under the 1933 Act and no Deputy in the House knows that better than the Deputy who raised this question.

What, then, are the Parliamentary Secretary's duties?

That is a separate question.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until Thursday, 26th March, 1936, at 3 p.m.

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