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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 12 May 1936

Vol. 62 No. 1

Financial Resolutions. - Resolution No. 1—Income-tax and Surtax.

I move:—

(1) That income-tax shall be charged for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1936, at the rate of 4/6 in the pound.

(2) That surtax for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1936, shall be charged in respect of the income of any individual the total of which from all sources exceeds £1,500 and shall be so charged at the same rates as those at which it was charged for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1935.

(3) That the several statutory and other provisions which were in force during the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1935, in relation to income-tax and surtax shall have effect in relation to the income-tax and surtax to be charged as aforesaid for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1936.

(4) It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

This is the usual Resolution specifying the rates of income-tax and surtax and containing the usual statutory provision in relation to these taxes.

I want to avail myself of the opportunity, usually afforded at this time, for a few preliminary remarks on the statement we have just heard, prior to the general discussion which will, of course, take place on the last Resolution. I take all the more pleasure in speaking at this point this year because of the obvious disappointment with which, the Minister's statement has affected his own followers. One has only to compare the rather perfunctory applause—which it would be insulting not to give to the unfortunate gentleman—this year with the enthusiasm that there was, say, four years ago, damped though that enthusiasm has become in the three years intervening. As Deputies opposite heard all the figures being rolled out, I saw them straining anxiously to know if there was going to come any one of three things which properly presented themselves to them—if production was catching up on unemployment; if production, under even subsidy and bounty, was making some progress in the country, if the unemployment problem was either being solved or nearly solved, and, if these things could not be given to them, if they could, at any rate, go to their constituents with some promises of decent remissions of taxation. I think that most of them began to read into the framework of the Budget, that there was more receding than the Republic and that these other things were receding more quickly than the Republic. I refer to the fulfilment of all that swung them into office: remissions of taxation, increased production which would break the back of unemployment, the new system within the system that was to bring us, with all the hopes we had this year for better cultural and spiritual development into a "haven of peace in a shattered world"— which was the phrase, I think, was used last year— not to speak of all the other gaudy flights of fancy we had during the last three years.

The Minister thinks that some part of the prosperity—mark the word— that afflicts the country at the moment might be ascribed to Government policy. I would prefer to phrase it that we can entirely ascribe to Government policy the failure to reach the derided prosperity of 1930 and 1931. The Minister tells us that he has balanced the Budget, though he hasn't said this with last year's assurance. He knows that it is futile to repeat such a phrase. He has not told the House of the new method of taxation, the financial resolution which can be and has been shot in so many times during the year. The finances of the country were so perilously near being on the rocks on several occasions that, for protection, the life boats had to be launched. Even so, in hypocritical phrase, the Minister ascribes some part of our prosperity, if prosperity we have, to Government policy. Last year the Minister imposed taxation, and between the Budget taxes and the additional tax on cement, the new taxation amounted to £1,250,000. He gave remissions, supposed to carry relief, to the extent of £250,000. In the result his new impositions came to the sum of £1,000,000. Not even that extra £1,000,000 has been remitted this year, but a mere £350,000, and for that relief we are told we have to thank Government policy. Is this small remission to be ascribed to Government policy? Is there not a possibility that any increase in revenue in this country is due to the fact that British prosperity is on the increase, that the dividends that Saorstát investors get from British securities have raised our income-tax returns? Is anything further to be learned from the consideration that, contrary to the avowed policy of the Fianna Fáil Government, this year they made their second coal-cattle arrangement? Does what the Minister gain correspond in any way to the amount accruing from increased dividends on British securities? Will he tell us how much of the newly-found prosperity is due to the fact that, even at low rates, more cattle can be sold? Would it be surprising to find that the Government have been able to give relief, even to the extent of £350,000, simply because an increase in the prosperity of the country which is so hostile to us has enabled us to get by a side-wind some assistance from our enemy's good fortune?

The Minister evaded one other notable matter. This country is represented as a poor country normally, but the present boast is that we have advanced materially, and have been able to establish a wide range of social services. We are now, in the fifth year of Government, making an attack, in a well-planned and comprehensive way, upon our unemployment. The Minister forgot to tell us that we have given to Britain, our enemies, £500,000 more than they set out to collect last year. We gave them that notwithstanding their pledge that "they set out to obtain only the amount they claimed— not one copper more." The House of Commons approved that pledge given to them that when they obtained that amount they would cease, that not one copper more did they want. The Budget statement made about three weeks ago by the British Chancellor of the Exchequer showed that the Irish Free State duties had brought in £500,000 in excess of his expectations. In that, at any rate, the Minister might have taken some little pride. He knows right well that the coal-cattle pact could only have been arranged on a studied calculation that a stated number of cattle at the rate of duty imposed would bring in the amount to be collected. When the result is shown to exceed his best calculations he might have recognised that an extra £500,000 has been extorted from us and might have indicated his intention of keeping the British to their pledges— so recovering this overpayment for us.

This is the best of the Fianna Fáil Budgets. There is no remission of taxation from the 1931-32 figure as had been promised. There is £350,000 of a reduction, but that must be related to last year's Budget, with the £1,000,000 that was slapped on then. What has the Ministry done with the revenue they got since they became a Government? They have been four years in office and, in that period, with this year's estimated taxation added in, they gather in from our people £26,750,000 more than used to be taken from them in 1930-31. They have also had the spending of an annual sum of £2,000,000 which in the last Government's time used to be remitted to England. Over five years that is an extra £10,000,000. This is then £36,750,000 that they have had to spend.

In this period we are told that the National Debt has advanced only by £5,885,000. I question the accuracy of that figure, but let it pass. I was informed, in answer to a question a fortnight ago, that the debts of local authorities had increased in two years by £5,000,000. There is, of course, overlapping somewhere. The Minister, apparently, only takes over from local authorities something like £1,500,000 for housing. Is it possible that there is a further £9,500,000 as between the debt of local authorities and the State, and have the Ministry enjoyed the spending of this also? If they have had this also to spend, the full tot of their spending is the £26,750,000 got by way of extra taxation, the £10,000,000 repayments to the Local Loans Fund retained for use at home, and the other £10,000,000 represented by the increased indebtedness of local authorities and the State. The debt corresponding to the last will have to be repaid by this and the succeeding generation, but the fruits of the expending of it have been enjoyed by the present Government. There is a complete sum of £46,000,000 in a five-year period. It is the minimum for what the local authorities' debt has amounted to since 31st March, 1935, and we do not know what the State debt will be by 31st March, 1937. What we do know is that this Government prides itself on having taken from the country by taxation £26,750,000 more than it used to pay.

Over what period?

Over four or five years—the four past years and the one we are entering. There was also £10,000,000 spent that was not reserved for spending here, and in three of those years there was at least £9,000,000 added between State and local authority debt. One would have imagined with all that, that there might have been some betterment of the country's condition. The Minister told us that practically all the money that had been raised by way of an increase has been for social services. I do not believe it, but again let us assume it to be an accurate statement. Let us leave out of consideration the millions that were promised by way of savings—the £2,000,000 per year down on the old 1930-31 taxation. Let us leave that aside. We shall give you a present of the £10,000,000 you were going to save in that way. The Minister tells us that all this is spent on social services. So much the worse for the future of the country. Where is the increased production, the increased production that will give strength to the taxpayers' back to bear the burden?

We have discussed these figures at length before. We know that as far as agriculture is concerned the Government policy is founded on wheat and beet and on certain payments towards the producers of milk. We know that in the last year wheat and beet have cost us about £2,000,000. We know that what we pay as consumers brings in over £1,000,000 that might go to the man who produces milk but of which only £630,000 odd goes to him. At any rate, with all these subsidies, we find that the increased employment in agriculture as far as paid labour is concerned is nil. There is a decrease of 600 odd in the number permanently employed on the land and there is an increase of 2,400 in the number of those employed for about one quarter of the year. The two items balance each other. We are supposed to have about 9,000 extra, including the members of farmers' families, working on the land. We know that is the figure given for the purposes of the distribution of the agricultural grant.

Let us assume that for the £3,000,000 we are spending for subsidies for these new crops, and as an additional help to the old type of economy, we get a return of 10,000 people extra employed. The Minister for Agriculture knowing that problem goes faintheartedly to the country and says: "It is to industry we must look for increased employment" while his colleague, the Minister for Industry and Commerce, talking in terms of Couéism, says: "Agriculture is the mainstay; it is to that we must look for employment." The Couéism fails before facts. We do know that there is £100,000 extra in the Unemployment Insurance Fund which represents 25,000 workers all the year round. There is more than that accounted for by new employment in the building industry in the Minister's calculations. So that the Ministry have taxed this country to the extent of £26,000,000 mere in the five-year period, have run up debt at least to the extent of another £10,000,000 and have had £10,000,000 to play with that we had not. They show 9,000 extra on the land, if they are there, and they show such a position in regard to industry that if the money was not there for the building of these subsidised houses, the Unemployment Assistance Fund would sink to its old figure. Where is the production that is going to make these burdens in the way of permanent social measures easier for the people to bear in the future?

The Minister has told us with pride of the success of the Conversion Loan. We can think of it with some pride, but let us temper our pride with the thought that we paid, as a minimum, one point more than it was worth. We had to buy confidence by bribing with that point extra. The cheapest thing in the world to-day is money. There is not an issue of the smallest county in England, there is not an issue of the refunding type of any decent-class country right over the world, that does not show a conversion loan carried through at least a point cheaper than we had to pay. The Minister talks of thrift, and by taking certain figures he makes the pretence that thrift has increased in the country. Will the Minister bring into the Dáil the figures from about 1927 onwards in respect to Savings Certificates and the Savings Banks Funds and, if he has the calculation already, will he agree with me that although this Government have not completely destroyed the habit of thrift, they have slowed down, year by year, the accumulations by at least one-third? The Minister has for years dodged about between Savings Bank deposits and Savings Certificates. Let us get a calculation based on the two, and the Minister will find that although he can boast that thrift has not been completely ousted from the country, the amount put by for the last four years is down by at least £350,000 on what the average figure used to be. The most saddening feature of the Budget must have been the open acknowledgment of failure in regard to the unemployment position when we think of the way the people were deluded about it. The Minister told us that it is not an ephemeral thing, a thing to be stopped this year, next year or at any moment. That is a changed tone. Does the Minister remember the time when we were told: "The problem that faced Hoover, Hindenburg and MacDonald was the problem facing us, and if these statesmen had the cure staring them in the face, as we have here, they would have cured unemployment long ago"? So we had a cure staring us in the face! The Minister has sat and looked at it since he came into office. Last year on the 15th of May the Minister told us of the great Committee under the presidency of Deputy Hugo Flinn, that was going to end all our woes in that regard. His announcement in regard to it last year was that it had been set up a long time before the 15th of May. So long had it been set up that on the 17th December, 1934, it had decided to look for special information. A Deputy who put questions in this House every day for a fortnight, would not have been as impatient in looking for results as that Committee which had got going on the 17th of December, 1934.

We are going now to amend unemployment and to end it. We are going to mend it in a particular way this year. How? The Committee, after two or three years' incubation, produces, what? The same old solution— roads and public health services. There is one new item—air-ports. I should like to find the calculation upon which that is based. If we leave out the item of air-ports there is not a thing mentioned as going before Deputy Flinn's committee that was not before every Government the world has seen since depression started. Roads were the only item for which we were given a figure—a sum of £600,000. That leads to an interesting comparison. In 1932 the Government spent £856,000 on roads. In 1933, working up to an election, the amount spent was £1,400,000. The programme, of course, that had been arranged for the election could not be slowed down too shabbily, with the result that next year there was £1,000,000 spent. In 1935 that had dropped to £715,000, and on the good old highways of the country another £600,000 is to be landed out to them now. That is the answer to unemployment. Have the Ministry at last accepted the idea that, jacking up industries with tariffs and subsidising with bounties all sorts of business in the country, is not a paying game? Have they decided that production, as far as they can achieve it, is not an answer to unemployment? If not, can they not give us some more hope with regard to production? Can they not tell us, even if we are increasing the national debt and taxing the people at a scandalous and outrageous rate, that there is at any rate a hope in the future that some of these subsidised crops are going to take root and will eventually be able to get on in a healthy condition without artificial aid from the State?

Can we be told, with regard to any of these industries, that they are going to occupy any large number of people, or must we now take it that there are to be permanent features of our life here an unemployment insurance fund —an old-time fund—an unemployment assistance fund, which is the sole resort of the Minister for Industry and Commerce to the problem, and now, if you please, an employment fund under Deputy Hugo Flinn to scatter money on roads and on public health services? Is it possible that, in the fifth year of their existence, this Government cannot say to the people of this country anything more satisfying than this: "We will spend £600,000 on the roads; we have a certain amount of extra money to fling around on harbour works, air-ports and things like that, and if you are not too lazy to walk to your work you will get some help from these. The too-lazy-to-work theory has been developing apace in Fianna Fáil. I think it was the most recent recruit to the House from the County Galway who started that.

And if people died from starvation it was none of our business.

No one ever said that in the House, but many people have lied about it being said.

It is on the records, anyway.

They have been brought in so often——

And thrown out so often that the Deputy dare not bring them in.

Will the Deputy listen if I bring them in?

I will read them for the Deputy.

The two pages?

Yes. Let us get them.

Will the Deputy quote the extract in which the phrase "too lazy to walk to work" appears?

"Too lazy to work."

Will the Deputy quote the extract from which that phrase is taken?

Yes, with the greatest pleasure. Deputy Corbett said "too lazy to work." The Minister for Finance, founding his statement on the one example that he gave us here, said that some people who thought the walk was too much for them——

Will the Deputy give his authority for that also?

About the walk being too much for them?

Will the Deputy adduce evidence to the House for the statement that he has made?

It is the Minister's Budget statement.

Will the Deputy quote the phrase substantiating that misrepresentation of his?

"Too lazy to work" is the slogan that is developing.

Will the Deputy quote the phrase? He cannot get away from it that way.

I will come back to it so often in the next fortnight that there will be two very sick people in the House—at least there will be one; but there is no doubt about the phrase having been used.

Look at the bottom of page 41.

Deputy Corbett was far more precise. "Too lazy to work" is his phrase. There was not a tooth put in it. The Minister gave us one example: "Some of the remainder thought the walk was too far for them."

Well, now.

Is there much change in what I said before?

With the Deputy's mind operating on it, it was like dead sea fruit, but there certainly is a change.

"The incident would indicate that there are some people on the unemployment register who are not so badly in need of work or so desirous of obtaining work as to be entitled to be paid unemployment assistance."

Precisely. Does the Deputy deny that?

I am not responsible for the statement of the Minister. I think we should insist that the Minister would give us some better evidence than that one "essential and useful public work" was held up because "only nine turned up on the job" out of 73 recipients of unemployment assistance.

And that is literally true.

And it is also a correct deduction that "some of the remainder thought the walk was too far for them."

That also is literally true.

"Too lazy to walk" is a correct interpretation of that.

I do not care what gloss the Deputy puts on it, but the words I have used are literally true.

They may be literally true in that one instance. I have only said that this slogan of "too lazy to work" has been spreading, and that Deputy Corbett started it. He was not by any means objected to by people on the back benches of Fianna Fáil when he said it. There were others who agreed with him, and the Minister gives it his official sanction this evening.

The Minister gives nothing his official sanction except what he has stated there.

Very good. I may ask a few questions about it next week. It is a phrase that ought to become popular. Remember, this is a definite change of mind. I remember the time when Deputy Donnelly would certainly have wept had anyone outraged his knowledge of the people and his feelings for them by suggesting that any of them would not run to get work. Is not that right? There is no doubt that the view is percolating through Fianna Fáil, by their using it as an excuse, that there are quite a number of people now drawing unemployment assistance who ought not to be doing so. That is the view that seems to be spreading among them. I do not believe that they are convinced of that. I would like to see some more proof of that than this one instance. But it is an obvious resort when you find that you cannot pay all the people who are idle in the country and when you cannot get work for them despite all the promises.

Look at the Minister's idea of relief on the other hand, relief of the taxpayer and of people who are struggling. A taxpayer, on the lower range of income, is going to get what the Minister has described as very substantial relief. The £9-a-week man with three children at present pays £1 16s. in income tax, and he will pay nothing. In the Minister's eyes, £1 16s. represents very substantial relief to the £9-a-week man. I wonder would he accept that standard when he is thinking in terms of taxation? Would the putting of £1 16s. on the £9-a-week man with three children be regarded as a very definite hardship? The taking off is a very substantial relief? In this Budget in which income-tax is buoyant, in which Government policy is succeeding, in which we have an apparent surplus of a £1,000,000 and an actual surplus of £350,000, the best that can be done for the taxpayer is the very substantial relief of £1 16s.

Would the Deputy tell the House what the children's allowance was when his Party was in office?

Let us just start from the terrific height we had climbed to in last year's Budget. Over and above that, this £1 16s. has not any relation to what the children's allowance was four or five years ago. The increased price that any family has to pay for tea would submerge that £1 16s. many times over. That is thrown out here as a sop. The Minister hopes that the family with the £9 a week, and the three children, and the £1 16s. relief, will have increased spiritual and cultural development by reason of it. There are many things that can be spoken of afterwards on the more general debate, but it is clearly revealed now, when we take a look at them four years in retrospective, that all the promises that were made have turned out, at any rate—whether they were sincerely made or not I do not know—in a way that has been most disappointing to the deluded people who had some belief in them.

Are they the Opposition?

They did not delude us, and the fact that they cannot be carried out does not surprise us. But something does surprise us. It is a scandalous thing that a Government which, by deluding people with promises, got itself into office, most cynically turns its back upon all that was promised, never even attempts to excuse itself, never even allows the people to know what they have realised in office different from what they thought when they were out. They never attempted to justify themselves before the people. They have simply brought politics to the point where nobody expects anything better than promises, and nobody counts a promise worth anything. We might have expected some discussion on that. We might have expected the gentlemen who are now wiser than they were five years ago to tell us and to reveal frankly to their own supporters why they cannot give those remissions. Surely, having realised something, they might at any rate refrain from increasing the permanent burden of social services until they had some appreciation that there was a future before the country in the way of increased production. Does the Minister believe, if agricultural production and sale are to be permanently pegged back to the point at which they are now pegged back, that this country can carry on and give the social services it is at present providing? Does the Minister believe that, if he suddenly withdrew all the subsidies to housing and the 25,000 men so occupied went out on the roads, he could take on himself the burden of giving them social services equal to what is being given to the rest? Why should there have been this benevolence without any provision—in fact, without any thought of providing for it—for the future? There is only one answer. The Government got their power by bribery. The day it is realised and confessed that it was bribery, that day the Government ends. As long as there is money to be spent on the roads and on public health services, on getting people jobs, on getting people places through political influence, there is a chance for a Party unconscientious about the use of public money to remain in power, but each year pulls the curtain back a little further.

Last year we got to the point where tea, sugar, tobacco and bread had to bear various increases. In this year of abounding prosperity the Minister is able to give a remission of the extra they put on sugar last year, and all the other taxes are kept on. I believe that while all this is going on the national debt situation is much worse than what the Minister has revealed. There has been no proper accounting of the debts that have been accumulated by the local authorities. There has been no statement at all by the Minister as to whether he knows that his attempts to balance the Budget—not always successful—have only been achieved by unbalancing the budgets of many families through the country. You can get a glimmer of prosperity about a city like Dublin, where you have people to whom money comes so easily that they will spend it more easily still on drink or entertainment, but you have got a very poor return if you have a lot of families in the country ruined and bankrupt, and the production they used to give destroyed, while you only get as a substitute this subsidy and bounty-fed business with which Dublin is destroyed at the moment. That, at any rate, is the tendency which Fianna Fáil policy has achieved so far. There is very little hope of spiritual or cultural development, and no hope of material prosperity, as long as the situation remains as it is.

Will the Deputy have this statement now?

Read it. Read the two sentences now.

It is not in order.

I would ask for indulgence in this matter. The Deputy challenged a particular statement and I asked him to bring it in.

That matter has been debated in the House so often that it should not be reopened now.

We may get it concluded this time. The House appears to be anxious to have it read.

It is quite irrelevant.

Resolution put and agreed to.
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