Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 30 Mar 1938

Vol. 70 No. 9

Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 4—Comptroller and Auditor-General.

Minister for Finance (Mr. MacEntee)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £13,081 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig an Ard-Reach-taire Cunntas agus Ciste (Uimh. 1 de 1923), maraon le hOifig Iniúchuíreachta an Arachais Náisiúnta.

That a sum not exceeding £13,081 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1939, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor-General (No. 1 of 1923), including the National Insurance Audit Office.

Mr. Dillon

I take it that it is relevant on this Vote to raise a question concerning the procedure at the Public Accounts Committee. I suggest that this Vote has to do with the Comptroller and Auditor-General's Report.

Mr. MacEntee

I do not think so.

Mr. Dillon

I think it may be relevant at this stage, as reference was made in this year's report of the Public Accounts Committee. A practice has grown up during the last four or five years, when the Comptroller and Auditor-General has completed his review of the year's accounts, and when it becomes the duty of the Public Accounts Committee to deal with it, by which they are held up by inquiries they deem it right to make. The Public Accounts Committee finds that the presence of accounting officers is necessary and, when called to answer, not infrequently, some comparatively minor official from the Department is sent, very often with the most puerile excuse that they were engaged elsewhere. I feel satisfied that the Minister will agree with me that it is a very unhealthy development, that the accounting officers do not put themselves to very considerable inconvenience to meet the Public Accounts Committee on the day appointed. I do not want to imply that the Public Accounts Committee should make unreasonable difficulties if accounting officers are away, or are engaged on urgent State business, when the Committee should excuse them and accept substitutes. I should be glad if the Minister would allow it to go on record that he would regard it as improper on the part of accounting officers to absent themselves from the Committee unless some very grave matter made it impossible for them to attend.

Mr. MacEntee

I should like to say that I am in sympathy with the purpose of the Deputy's remarks, which are to ensure that when various Votes are being considered by the Public Accounts Committee, and in the light of the Comptroller and Auditor-General's report, they would attend, if possible, in person. May I say that the remedy very largely lies in the hands of the Public Accounts Committee which, I think, has power to compel the attendance of accounting officers who absent themselves without due and proper reasons? I am in some difficulty about discussing this matter on this Vote because, I think, strictly speaking, it has nothing to do with it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

No.

Mr. MacEntee

There was a custom of having formal discussions in the House of the Report of the Public Accounts Committee, but now, due I presume to Parliamentary time, the Opposition has not seen fit to ask for any discussion. If asked for, I have no doubt the Government would find time to discuss the report. The matter raised is one which the Committee has brought to the attention of the House in a formal way.

Mr. Dillon

I take it that the Minister is in agreement with me?

Mr. MacEntee

Certainly.

Mr. Cosgrave

Would the Minister explain the provision of additional clerical assistance under sub-head (A)? The Vote is increased considerably over last year, the net increase being £1,300, of which £500 is for additional charges under the sub-head.

Mr. MacEntee

The increase is in salary charges.

Mr. Cosgrave

The provision for additional clerical assistance is £500.

Mr. MacEntee

The additional clerical assistance was required to deal with Dáil Loans and Funds Accounts, upon which the Comptroller and Auditor-General has to report.

Mr. Dillon

Is this the Account where the Irish Press made the slaughter?

Mr. MacEntee

The Deputy knows as well as I do that that remark is grossly improper.

Vote put and agreed to.