Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 23 Mar 1939

Vol. 74 No. 18

Committee on Finance. - Vote 63—Posts and Telegraphs.

Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (Mr. Traynor)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £1,537,070 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1940, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig an Aire Puist agus Telegrafa (45 agus 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 agus 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; na hAchtanna Telegrafa, 1863 go 1928, etc.); agus Seirbhísí áirithe eile atá fé riaradh na hOifige sin.

That a sum not exceeding £1,537,070 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1940, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (45 and 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; the Telegraph Acts, 1863 to 1928, etc.); and of certain other Services administered by that Office.

The estimated total Post Office expenditure for the year 1939-40 is £2,375,070, being an increase of £42,880 on the Estimate for 1938-39. Of this increase over £30,000 is attributable to higher cost of living figure and the provision of additional staff to cope with increase of work. The balance is due to increased telephone capital repayments; additional facilities provided for civil aviation services; increased cost of conveyance of mails; expenditure in connection with buildings, etc., etc.

The financial position of the Department as ascertained from the commercial accounts for the year 1937-38 is as follows:—

Postal Services.
Revenue	£1,687,869
Expenditure	£1,533,752
Surplus	£154,117

Telephone Service.
Revenue	£511,055
Expenditure	£449,769
Surplus	£61,286

Telegraph Service.
Revenue	£192,804
Expenditure	£314,624
Deficit	£121,820

On the postal and telephone services there was a combined surplus of £215,403, and on the telegraph service a deficit of £121,820, leaving a net surplus on the combined services for the year of £93,583. This represents a decrease of £108,209 on the surplus for the previous year, 1936-37. This decrease was due to the fact that although revenue in 1937-38 was greater by £50,938 than in 1936-37, expenditure increased by no less than £159,147. The increased expenditure was attributable mainly to higher cost of living bonus (£75,000); additional cost of telephone maintenance (£14,000); extra cost of wireless facilities provided for civil aviation and meteorological services (£14,000); extra staff to cope with additional work, etc.

It is customary to give the Dáil statistical information as regards the volume of work dealt with during the terminating financial year. The following are the approximate figures under the principal heads:—

Letters, etc., posted and delivered	422,000,000
Parcels posted and delivered	11,000,000
Cash on delivery parcels	18,000
Postal orders, issued and paid	12,376,600
Money orders, issued and paid	1,662,000
Old age pensions paid	7,225,500
Widows' and orphans' pensions paid	1,598,000
Savings bank transactions	997,000
Telephone calls dealt with	34,347,000
Telegrams forwarded and received	3,018,000

The policy of improvement of postal services where reasonably practicable has been continued. The review of delivery services in rural districts which has been in progress for the past two years has been completed, a total of 1,067 posts having been improved as a result.

The arrangements for the suspension of postal delivery on Christmas Day and on the 26th December, introduced in 1937, were repeated last year, and were again satisfactory. This was largely attributable to the splendid response by the public to the requests for early posting, for which I am grateful. With the exception of the limited number of officers required for telegraph, telephone and other essential services, post office officials were wholly relieved from duty on Christmas Day and the day following.

The number of letters and postcards despatched for conveyance by air services continues to increase. The scheme introduced in June, 1937, under which items for Commonwealth countries are conveyed by air as the normal means of transmission, without special air fee, and which at first served South and East Africa only, was extended during the year, and now includes Australia, India, New Zealand, Egypt, Kenya, Palestine, Rhodesia, etc.,

The telephone service continues to develop. The revenue for the year 1938-39 will, it is anticipated, be approximately £22,000 in excess of that for 1937-38 but, as expenditure is growing correspondingly, the financial position of the service will remain practically unchanged.

There are now 798 exchanges and 1,472 public call offices (including 141 street kiosks) in existence. The number of subscribers' circuits is 26,124, an increase of 1,355 on last year's figures, and the number of telephones in use is 42,521 (of which 22,000 approximately are automatic) an increase of 2,139. The number of local calls during 1938 was nearly 31,000,000, an increase of 1,250,000, and of trunk calls 3,500,000, an increase of 335,000.

To cope with the growing traffic a second new Cross-Channel cable was laid in August last, and there are now 16 Cross-Channel circuits in operation. For internal traffic 73 additional trunk circuits were provided during the year. The quality of speech transmission on the Cross-Channel circuits and on the "carrier" circuits employed on the main internal routes is of a high order, and the general standard of service afforded, both trunk and local, is satisfactory. There is still some delay on cross-channel calls after 7 p.m. by reason of the heavy traffic induced by the cheaper "night" rates, but the provision of additional circuits which is in contemplation will in due course remedy this.

Additional funds amounting to £1,000,000 for telephone development purposes were provided by the Telephone Capital Act, 1938. The capital outlay on development works during the current financial year will be approximately £275,000 and the expenditure under this head for 1939-40 is estimated at £170,000. The programme for 1939-40 involves a further augmentation of trunk circuits; additional circuits in the cross-channel cables; the completion of the new automatic exchange for Dun Laoghaire, Blackrock and contiguous areas; extension of local underground system to meet growth of subscribers mainly in the Dublin area; provision of a three-channel "carrier" on the Sligo-Lifford trunk route with the object of improving the service in County Donegal; various improvements and rearrangements of minor circuits etc.

The capacity of the existing central trunk exchange in Dublin is nearing exhaustion and it has been necessary to secure accommodation for a new exchange. Suitable premises for the purpose have, with the approval of the Dáil, recently been acquired in Exchequer Street. The engineering designs for the equipment, which will be of the most modern type, are in course of preparation and it is hoped that the new exchange can be completed in about two years. The intention is to divide the trunk equipment between the Exchequer Street premises and premises to be erected in St. Andrew Street in conjunction with the new post office which is to be provided there. When trunk working has been transferred from Crown Alley, that exchange will be employed solely for the service of automatic subscribers.

Last year I mentioned that it was hoped to instal experimentally a rural automatic telephone system in the exchange areas of Malahide, Donabate, Rush and Lusk. I am happy to say that the scheme, which was introduced about six months ago, is working satisfactorily and that it gives prospect of affording a solution of the difficulties associated with the provision of continuous service at small exchanges. It is proposed to extend the experiment during the coming year.

As mentioned earlier in this statement the loss on the Telegraph Service for the financial year 1937-38 was £121,820. This was an increase of £17,557 on the deficit for 1936-37. It is estimated that revenue for 1938-39 will show a decrease of about £11,700 on the figures for 1937-38 and, as expenditure will be greater by about £10,000, the loss on the telegraphs will be approximately £143,500 at the end of this month. In these circumstances it will be appreciated that any concessions in the matter of telegram charges are not possible. In relation to this I may say that the reduction of the rate for inland messages from 1/6 for 12 words to 1/- for nine words in June, 1937, secured an increase in traffic of only 4 per cent., and the result was a loss in revenue of approximately £10,000 a year. Any further reduction in charges would only have the effect of adding to the already heavy deficit.

A new telephone cable was laid last summer to the Aran Islands to replace the old cable, which had been damaged and out of use for a considerable time. The new cable gives full telegraph and telephone facilities. A new telephone cable has also been laid between Arranmore Island and the mainland at Burtonport (Co. Donegal) in substitution of the wireless telegraph service previously operative which was in need of renewal. A public call office on the island will be opened shortly. It is hoped that it will be possible before next winter to provide communication by means of wireless telephony with some of the other islands off the western and south western coasts.

During the past year the value of contracts placed by the Stores Branch amounted to a total of £489,400, of which £330,800 was in respect of articles manufactured or assembled in Eire. These amounts represent increases of £100,000 and £130,000 respectively on the figures for the preceding year. The operations of the Post Office factory are confined mainly to repair work, including the repair of telephone apparatus and repair and maintenance of official mechanical transport. It is not the Department's policy to undertake the manufacture of articles that can be produced by home manufacturers at reasonable cost, and the manufacturing operations of the factory are consequently limited to the production of special articles for the Post Office and other Government Departments.

Civil aviation and meteorological services are controlled by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, but the associated wireless services are provided and operated by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.

The amount required for 1939-40 is £36,085, as compared with £27,526 for the current year—an increase of £8,559. The increase is due to the provision made for additional operating staff for the Shannon Airport and for additional staff and equipment for the Dublin Airport (Collinstown). The radio facilities at Collinstown will include medium and short wave transmitting stations, a direction-finding station, and a radio-beacon to enable aircraft to land in conditions of low visibility. The radio installations at the Shannon Airport, for the transatlantic air services have been completed except for a radio-beacon at Rynanna, which will be installed later.

Savings Bank transactions increased during 1938 by 71,000, and the total amount of the deposits by £314,500. The deposits during the year exceeded the withdrawals by £846,296. The number of accounts remaining open at the end of the year was 350,869, being approximately 25,000 more than at the close of the preceding year. The total amount standing to the credit of depositors is now £9,500,000, over £1,000,000 in excess of the previous year.

In relation to the Commercial Account figures given in the first part of my statement, which are for the financial year 1937-38, and which show a profit on the services as a whole of £93,583, I wish to say that, so far as can be estimated at present, the profit for the current year is not likely, on account of expenditure on additional facilities and increased staff costs, to exceed £54,000, and the tendency will be to drop still lower.

Mr. Dockrell

The Minister spoke about the post office in St. Andrew Street. I see here an item for the purchase of sites, etc.—postal and telegraph services only—£3,450. Would the Minister say how much of that relates to Exchequer Street and how much to St. Andrew Street. Last year I made some remarks about the post office in St. Andrew Street. The Minister was uncertain as to whether he owned the site, and had a contract for putting up a post office there, or whether it was the Department of Agriculture or the Agricultural Credit Corporation, or some other Department that was going to put up a building which the post office was to occupy. There has not been a brick laid on that site for a year, as far as I know. Is the Minister able to tell us to-day whether it is his Department that is doing that job or some of the other Departments that I have referred to. I understood the Minister to say that he proposes to have an exchange in St. Andrew Street. I rather thought that he was also having one in Exchequer Street. While, of course, it is necessary to have a post office in a fairly central position, St. Andrew Street is a very narrow traffic artery. Last-year I stressed the point that I hoped the Minister would see that there was not a line of post office vans outside the thoroughfare in St. Andrew Street. Exchequer Street is rather different, because there is a side street, and there is very little traffic in it. I think the name of the side street is Dame Court.

I do not know really what the Minister's policy is with regard to the matter of having exchanges in the principal thoroughfares. There is no reason, of course, why the Post Office should not put up fine buildings and occupy sites in the centre of the city. At the same time, in a city like Dublin, where you have a few central thoroughfares with a very large undeveloped hinterland lying behind them, I think that if the Minister could see his way to do it, he would be adding to the town planning of the city, and probably adding to the prestige of the Post Office, by putting the buildings over which he has control, and which are not required to be in the main thoroughfares, not necessarily into the back streets, but into the less important thoroughfares.

However, that is a matter that has to be tried out as between Crown Alley, Exchequer Street and St. Andrew Street. I suppose the Minister is in the position that he cannot acquire property just where he would like to. At the same time, I would urge on him to keep off a traffic artery like St. Andrew Street as much as possible.

There is another matter that I want to refer to, and that is the carrying of the mails from Dun Laoghaire. I do not see any item in connection with the carrying of mails by sea, and I rather think that is because the British Government hold the contract for carrying the mails to Dun Laoghaire and that the Post Office merely pay a contribution. That may be a very excellent way of working the matter out, and I am not finding fault with the Minister if he finds that that is the most desirable way of dealing with the matter. At the same time, Dun Laoghaire is the most important main tourist artery, and while I would not like to say the facilities there were out of date, still considerable improvements could be effected. Last year I urged that there should be a conference between the Post Office, the Board of Works, the Dun Laoghaire Borough Corporation, and whoever is responsible for placing the mail contract.

I saw in the papers some time ago that considerable improvements were being considered in connection with the pier at Dun Laoghaire, and, in fact, that if you went down there you would see people with tapes measuring up the place and considering what ought to be done. I do not know whether that is a fact or not. But these improvements take a long time to carry out, and if we are going to have a considerable increase in air passengers from America, it is quite possible that that route via Dun Laoghaire might become a very important tourist traffic artery. While, of course, it is possible for people to go the longer journey to England, I think that a very considerable and increasing volume of travellers and tourists will use that route. It is most important, therefore, that we should have it absolutely up-to-date.

I think the Minister will agree that the pier and the approaches to it are obsolescent, if not obsolete, and require really radical transformation. There are about four parties to be consulted and I should like to hear from the Minister that there is some prospect of calling a conference at an early date to consider the positions of the interested parties. There is no doubt that a very considerable sum would require to be spent there. At the same time, it would be a very desirable improvement and one that would probably pay dividends on the outlay. Of course, the question of the boats would have to be considered in connection with the mail contract, but that is all the more reason why the question should be tackled and a decision arrived at in order that an improvement scheme might be gone on with as soon as the best possible way of working out and reconciling the interests of all parties is found. I urge these two matters on the Minister and I ask him when replying to give as full details as he can.

Mr. Benson

I am very pleased to hear from the Minister's statement that the experimental automatic rural installation in the Rush and Lusk area has proved a success. I take it that possibly he requires a further period of experiment before he will be satisfied that it is thoroughly successful. When he is so satisfied, I trust no time will be lost in establishing similar automatic exchanges throughout the country. I should like to ask the Minister, if and when that happy state arrives, would it not be possible for all practical purposes to discontinue the telegraphic service completely throughout the country and make use of the telephone only. There is a loss every year on the telegraph service and the Minister's forecast seems to suggest that that loss is going to increase. The telephone, on the other hand, shows a profit and could be used for the purpose of transmitting messages which could then be sent out on the usual forms. It would just mean the transmission of the messages by telephone rather than by telegraph. If that could be done, and there is no reason why it should not, it would be an economy for the people of the country at large.

Mr. Norton

There are a few matters which I should like to raise on the Vote. The first is the question of the Pearse Street post office premises. The Minister, and I think his predecessors, used to tell us annually how speedily they hoped to have the premises there adequately equipped for the proper transaction of a Post Office delivery and sorting service. Whether the premises have now become a ghost to the present Minister or not I do not know, but it is rather strange that this year he omitted all reference to what the Post Office proposed to do in order to replace the present ramshackle structure by a sorting and postman's office worthy of the capital city of Eire. By now the Minister must be familiar with the condition of the building there.

His predecessor stated in this House five years ago that he hoped to start the work of reconstruction in a few months; but the work of reconstruction has not yet been started. In an effort, however, to get the present Minister to give us some indication as to when the work would be taken in hands, I addressed a question to him some 18 or 20 months ago. He then stated that the task was a very considerable one and that a good deal of work remained to be done, but that it was hoped to have the premises ready for occupation in 1941. I do not see that any great improvement has been done on the premises for the past two years except to erect a wooden annex there. I should like if the Minister would now say whether his promise that the premises would be ready in 1941 has any prospect of realisation, or whether he believes that it is possible to have the place ready for occupation by that time. It is nearly two years since the Minister made the promise. He had then four years in which to fulfil it. I should like to know whether he is now as optimistic as he was then that the new premises would be available in 1941.

Last year the Minister, on the Estimate, when the question of the inadequate accommodation at the Waterford Post Office was raised, undertook to look into the matter with a view to ascertaining what improvements could be effected and what steps could be taken to remedy the present unsatisfactory position there. I should like to know whether any steps have since been taken to remedy the unsatisfactory accommodation at the Waterford Post Office and when it is likely that that office will be put in a condition adequate for the transaction of Post Office business and the proper accommodation of the staff. In the course of his speech this evening, the Minister told us of a certain development in respect of civil aviation and meteorological services, and made reference to the development at Foynes and elsewhere. The Foynes station and the station at Ballyporeen are staffed by temporary wireless operators. They have been employed in that capacity by the Post Office for a considerable time. I should like to know whether it is contemplated that the Post Office will continue to service Foynes and Ballyporeen, whether it is contemplated that the Post Office will continue to be administratively responsible for the aviation and meteorological services at both these stations, and, if so, whether the Minister contemplates establishing the temporary wireless staff employed there.

Many of the people who joined this service held pretty good positions on seagoing, British-registered vessels. They left their positions to take employment there, believing that this service was a regular service, one on which they would have permanent employment, and be assured of pensions after having rendered reasonable service to the State. They are now employed in a temporary capacity, and have been so employed for a prolonged period. Would the Minister indicate what the policy of the Department is in respect of them? Is it intended to establish these officers as permanent wireless operators, and will steps be taken to grade them and pay them accordingly? At present the officers do not appear to know what exactly their future grading is to be, or what way they are to be classified on establishment. As a matter of fact, until recently the Post Office did not appear to know whether it would be responsible for the permanent administration of these air and meteorological services, or whether the Department of Industry and Commerce would either take over that responsibility or share it, to some degree, with the Post Office.

During the past year I had occasion to address questions to the Minister on some matters which have been the subject of representation to his Department over a long period. One of the matters on which I addressed a question to the Minister had relation to the holding of an examination to fill Post Office clerkships at Dublin. It is some years since the last examination was held. There are vacancies in the Post Office clerk class in Dublin. The Minister's Department promised about two years ago that an examination would be held to fill these vacancies but, in the meantime, there has been an inexplicable and disquieting silence on the subject on the part of the Minister's Department. The Minister told us, in reply to a parliamentary question about three months ago, that he had his eye on the matter. The editor of the Skibbereen Eagle had his eye on the Czar in the same way. Whether the Minister hopes that the results in this case will be more progressive or not, I do not know. At all events, the Minister has now had the matter under optical examination for, at least, three months, and I should like to know if the decision is going to be announced on a matter which was represented to his Department two years ago. Even in the case of the Post Office, it is not rushing matters unduly to expect a reply to representations after two years. As the Minister has taken the matter in hand, we ought to have something definite from him on this question.

In the course of his speech this evening the Minister told us that the net surplus on the telephone side for the year 1937-38 was £61,000. There is an aspect of that surplus to which I should like to call the Minister's attention. I think he will find, on examination of the staffing records, that in Dublin there are almost as many temporary telephonists as there are established telephonists. That is a situation which did not arise in Dublin previously within living memory. Even in the provincial post offices a large number of temporary telephonists are employed. It has always been the policy of the Post Office to staff telephone exchanges with established officers. "Temporaries" were only employed in very exceptional circumstances. Certainly, they were never allowed to reach the proportions in number which they have reached to-day. I should like to know what the Minister's Department contemplates in respect of these temporary telephonists. Is it intended to hold an examination for them? When is it intended to hold the examination? What steps are to be taken to bring the authorised establishment in Dublin up to its proper level? According to the Estimate, there is an authorised establishment on the telephone side. Everybody who has any experience of the position knows perfectly well that the number of established telephonists in the exchanges is very much less than the number provided for in the Estimate. I should like to hear what the Minister's Department proposes to do in respect of the holding of an examination to provide the temporary telephonists concerned with an opportunity of qualifying for established appointments.

On the engineering side, I observe that skilled workmen, class II, and acting unestablished skilled workmen are expected to number 558 during the coming year. I suspect that an examination of that figure will show that a considerable number of these men are graded as acting unestablished skilled workmen. Here, again, it has always been the policy of the Post Office to provide these officers with an opportunity of securing established positions by means of limited competitive examinations. I should like if the Minister would say whether it is intended that an examination for these officers will be held in the near future, how many vacancies will be offered at the examination and whether the officers concerned who have a substantial period of unestablished service can look forward to qualifying for appointment to the established class.

There is another matter to which I should like to make reference while on this question of engineering establishment. That is the question of the wages of the engineering grades. A claim on behalf of these grades has been submitted to the Minister by the union which represents the officers concerned. The Post Office has told the union that the matter is under consideration. That type of reply has been sent to the union on a number of occasions. After all, even for the Post Office, there must be some limit to the amount of consideration which can be given to a case. Recent replies indicated that the matter was now in an advanced stage, and that there was reason to look forward to an early decision. I do not know whether or not the matter is with the Minister, or whether he is in any way responsible for delaying the decision. If the matter is awaiting his decision, I should like if he would say this evening what steps he proposes to take to announce the decision. It is long past the time when a decision on the subject should be promulgated.

There is another matter to which I would like to make reference, and that is the provision of outlets from the Post Office grades to the clerical grade. Looking through this Estimate, and observing the numbers of the Post Office grade employed in the metropolitan and provincial offices, one cannot fail to observe the very large number of persons employed at wage rates which are very low, and the limited opportunities, apparently, available to enable them to reach higher grades. There is at present an opportunity for Post Office clerks and postmen to qualify through examination for employment in the clerical grade in the Post Office and the higher offices. But that means that only a very limited outlet is available to thousands throughout the country who are eligible to compete in these examinations.

In the past two years only one such examination has been held, and though the potential number of candidates was considerable, yet the total number of vacancies was only ten for men and two for women. That is indeed a very inadequate outlet, having regard to the large number seeking an opening. Only 60 per cent. of the available vacancies are offered to these grades.

I would like if the Minister would give sympathetic consideration to the question of reserving all the vacancies in the clerical grade at the head offices for competition amongst the Post Office grades who are at present eligible only for a proportion of these vacancies. I think if the Minister examines this matter personally in his own Department he will find that some of his best and most competent officials have come from that grade. In asking that a further opportunity should be provided to qualify for appointment to the clerical grade one is only asking the Minister to avail of a very valuable supply of potential executive and administrative officers, the class of men and women who in the past have contributed substantially to the efficiency and development of the Post Office service.

These are some of the remarks that I wanted to make on this Estimate. I hope the Minister will endeavour in the course of his reply to indicate how the various matters to which I have referred stand and how long it will take before a definite decision will be arrived at between himself and his Department. I hope such a decision will be reached without a very prolonged period of waiting.

Mr. Traynor

In respect to the point raised by Deputy Dockrell with regard to the item for £3,450, that does not refer to St. Andrew Street at all. It has in fact no relation to St. Andrew Street. It refers to a sum required for the provision of a garage for engineering purposes. In respect to the site in St. Andrew Street the position is something like this:—The Agricultural Credit Corporation is not now involved in the question of occupying any portion of that site when it is built. The position is that originally when these people went out of the scheme we were endeavouring to bring in the broadcasting Department. Since we secured the Exchequer Street premises, we have, we believe, very much better accommodation for the broadcasting Department. We are bringing this to Exchequer Street together with a portion of the trunk telephone section. The other portion of the trunks will be established at the St. Andrew Street site together with the post office which will replace that now at College Green. I do not think there will be any question of traffic congestion likely to arise in Exchequer Street.

Mr. Dockrell

No, but in Dame Court.

Mr. Traynor

There is a site in Dame Court as well. There will not be much traffic passing through there. It will be merely the staff and the people going to the broadcasting studio. I understand there will be some arrangement in respect of any vehicles that may go to St. Andrew Street.

Mr. Dockrell

You will take them inside the building?

Mr. Traynor

Yes, if accommodation can be made whereby they will be taken off the main streets. I do not think there would be any possibility of very much congestion there. In respect of Dun Laoghaire Pier, I do not think we enter into that very much at all. The present contract lasts until the end of 1940. Beyond the fact that we will be one of the parties to a renewal contract, I do not think we will have very much voice in respect of the improvements which the Deputy thinks should be made at the Pier, or whatever other additions would be regarded as making it attractive for tourists to this particular port. However, if we have any influence in the matter, we will naturally use it to the best possible advantage.

I do not know that it would be possible to carry out the suggestion that Deputy Benson has made of discontinuing the telegraph service. It certainly looks as if things were tending that way, and that the telegraph service has almost become obsolete. The possibility suggested by Deputy Benson of telephoning the message and having the telephone message delivered, from its destination to the receiver, might be a way out. But I do not think that for some years to come, even in face of the loss, that we could just do away with the telegraph service as at present established. We may, with the growth of telephones, and especially with the growth of local automatic exchanges, find that the telephone will naturally replace the telegraph, and that the telegraph will die a natural death.

Deputy Norton spoke about Pearse Street. Pearse Street, of course, is a very large problem. There is a very fine wooden structure there. I do not know if Deputy Norton has been through the place yet. I have been through Pearse Street and I regard this as a very fine timber structure. It almost suggested itself to me as a structure of a permanent character. The place is well heated, well lighted and well ventilated and generally I would say the conditions are good. Any advance in the way of erecting a permanent structure could not have been made until the temporary structure had been erected. Now that that particular structure has been erected, one of the big difficulties that were in our way has been removed, but I am afraid it may not be possible to have the structure completed by the year 1941. However, the Deputy can rest assured that we are doing our utmost to get on with the work. Naturally, we are as anxious as anybody else to see the final permanent structure in being.

The matter of the Waterford Post Office does unfortunately still present a certain amount of difficulty, but there again we are doing whatever is possible. There are several outside influences there which are more or less holding us up. Again, I will have to say that we are doing our utmost to clear those difficulties out of the way. Until we do clear them out of the way we ourselves cannot get on with the job. Those other influences will have to be satisfied. They are circumstances which are unfortunately outside our own jurisdiction, but we are pressing to have the matter settled as quickly as possible. Final arrangements have not yet been determined in respect of civil aviation. The Post Office will probably still continue to operate the wireless service, and the question of the permanent status of the wireless operators will be considered when the ultimate staffing position can be more closely visualised.

The Deputy referred to the question of reserving for limited competition amongst Post Office Departmental classes all clerical officer posts in the Post Office headquarters' offices. This is a claim which, on representations from the union, has already been considered by the Department on several occasions. It is a claim that could not possibly be accepted. It is essential for the efficient conduct of the service that the personnel of the headquarters' clerical grades shall consist of at least a reasonable proportion of officers of the educational standard produced by open competitions. The Post Office grades in which the Deputy is interested are particularly fortunate in having, as they have at present, half the headquarters' clerical vacancies reserved for limited examination. In this they have, I may say, an avenue to the clerical grade open to no Departmental class in any other Department, and I think Post Office officers might reasonably realise their exceptionally favourable position in the matter. At any rate I am not prepared to support the union claim.

In regard to the holding of a limited competition confined to postmen for posts as Post Office clerk, Grade "B," in the Dublin Postal District, this question has involved a comprehensive review of the whole system of open and limited recruitment in the Post Office. The examination of the matter has now been completed, and I hope very shortly to be in a position to take the necessary steps towards the holding of a further competition. In regard to the provision of outlets to the Learner Class for boy messengers at provincial offices, this matter too involved a review of the system of open and limited recruitment. As I informed the Deputy about a month ago in reply to a question in the Dáil, consideration of the matter had then reached an advanced stage, and I am now able to say that the Departmental examination has been completed, and I expect that it will be possible in the near future to arrange for the holding of a competition for learnerships limited to boy messengers at provincial offices.

As regards the wages claim in respect of engineering classes, the position is that the heavy expenditure which acceptance of the claim made by the union would involve could not be justified. Before rejecting the claim in toto, however, I requested the Department to reconsider the matter with the object of determining to what extent some less costly scheme of improvement in scales would be practicable, and the question is at present under further examination.

Mr. Norton

Can the Minister say when that examination will be completed?

Mr. Traynor

Well, I suppose I will again have to say that I will keep my eye on it.

Mr. Norton

I think the Minister's eyes will be fully occupied.

Mr. Traynor

They have been fairly successful so far. As regards the question of an examination for acting unestablished skilled workmen for promotion to the skilled workmen class, this matter has been delayed by considerations arising out of, firstly, the fixing of the permanent establishment of skilled workers, and secondly, the difficulties of ensuring a competition that would satisfy the requirements of the Civil Service Commissioners by reason of the fact that the number of officers eligible to compete is practically equal to the number of vacancies available. I am, however, considering whether at this stage it would be possible to hold a competition for, say, half the vacancies, leaving the others to remain over to a future date.

Regarding the question of a limited competition for appointment as telephonist confined to temporary telephonists, arrangements are now in hand for the holding of a competition, subject, of course, to the concurrence of the Civil Service Commissioners, for 35 situations as established telephonist —14 in Dublin and 21 in the provinces. The delay which has arisen in dealing with this matter has been caused by considerations relative to the extent of the service to be required of candidates, but it has been decided on this occasion to make no change in the conditions hitherto applicable. Whether any change may be necessary in relation to such future similar competitions as may be held, I am not at present able to say. I think that answers the various queries which were raised by the few Deputies who spoke, and I do not think there is anything else I need add.

Mr. O'Neill

Before the Minister sits down, would he kindly let us know what progress has been made in regard to communication by telephone with the islands off West Cork, such as the island of Cape Clear? For the last seven years we have been told that something was being done, but nothing has been done.

Mr. Traynor

We hope in the very near future to be able to do something in regard to some of the islands. I cannot say at the moment how many islands we can deal with in, say, the next 12 months, but there is no question about the fact that we are going ahead as quickly as possible with a plan to secure some kind of communication. There will probably be wireless communication in respect of the islands to which the Deputy is referring. I think it will be quite satisfactory.

Mr. Norton

In regard to the Foynes and Ballyporeen stations, might I ask the Minister whether he can give us any idea as to when some of the officers there will be established? Presumably the extent to which large sums of money are being spent on those stations is a guarantee that they will remain. Is it not possible for the Minister to take on hands at once the question of establishing at least some of those officers? One cannot visualise the stations being serviced unless the officers are there, and if they are there, surely they should be appointed in an established capacity.

Mr. Traynor

I will undertake to have the matter looked into.

Vote put and agreed to.