Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 22 Feb 1940

Vol. 78 No. 13

Additional Estimate. - Vote 56—Gaeltacht Services.

Minister for Finance (Mr. O Ceallaigh)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim Bhreise ná raghaidh thar £10,000 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1940, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí i dtaobh Seirbhísi na Gaeltachta, maraon le Deontaisí um Thógáil Tithe.

That a Supplementary sum not exceeding £10,000 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1940, for Salaries and Expenses in connection with Gaeltacht Services, including Housing Grants.

Rúnaidhe Parliminte do'n Aire Tailte (Seán O Gráda)

Tá an t-airgead so ag teastáil chun go n-íocfaí as abhair sa bhreis atá riachtanach do sna Tionnscail Tuatha fé chúram na Roinne seo, agus chun go nglanfaí na costaisí reatha a leanfaidh an bhreis sin, baineann na costaisí reatha so le n-iompar, postas, pacáil agus eile. 'Siad na déantúisí atá i gceist ná, earraí cniotála, bréidín, bréagáin, lasaí agus spriogáil; ach díobh so, 'siad earraí cniotála, bréidín agus bréagáin na déantúisí is mó le rádh. Chun go ndéanfaí freastal mar ba chóir, ar an nglaodh atá tar éis teacht, le tamall anuas, ar earraí de'n tsaghas atá luaidhte, ní foláir roinnt mhaith de bhun-abhar do cheannach thar mar bhí coinne leis nuair a cuireadh le cheile an Príomh-Mheastachán.

Chífear ó Mheastacháin na Bliana gurb £56,000 an fágháltas le n-a raibh súil, ach thárla gur srois méid na ndhíolachán £70,000 go 31adh Eanair, agus do dheallródh an scéal go sroisfar £80,000 roimh deire na bliana airgidis. Do cuireadh £16,500 in sna Meastacháin le h-aghaidh páidh do sna h-oibritheoirí, ach, anois, meastar nach mór suim de £22,000 le n-a aghaidh.

Ó thosnuigh an cogadh, tá árdú luacha taguithe ar snáth, éinní ó 25% go 50% do réir an snáth a bhéadh uait. An t-árdú so, maraon le breis gnótha, is bunadhas leis an éileamh go méadófaí ó £23,000 go £40,000 an soláthar le h-aghaidh abhar do'n chiontáil agus figheadóireacht. Sé an dála céadna é, maidir le tionnscal na mbréagán. I rith na bliana do díoladh luach £2,000 de bhreágáin thar mar a measadh a díolfaí. Do beartuíodh luach £9,000 de bhun-abhar do cheannach, ach, fé mar do thárla i gcás earraí cniotála, bréidín 7rl. do tháinig árdú luacha ar bhun-abhair na mbréagán i dtreo nach foláir anois £1,000 sa bhreis do sholáthar.

Toisc go bhfuil mór-cheannach dá dhéanamh ar bhun-abhair, beidh meadú dá réir ar Chostaisí Ghenerálta, sé sin, ar iompar, postas, pecáil 7rl. Is le h-aghaidh costaisí iompair ar earrí ag teach isteach go dtí an Taisc Ionadh, iseadh an soláthar de £460 fé Mhír-Cheann D.7; ach an £1,600 atá dá sholáthar fé F.3, baineann sé le costaisí a leanann earraí do sheachada ó'n Taisc Ionad amach.

As an airgead atá caithte ar na dTionnscail, tá breis dá réir ar dhíolachán na n-earraí, ach ós rud é gur i ndeire na bliana airgidis seo, nó i rith na bliana so chugainn, a déanfar earraí d'fhormhór na mbun-abhar a ceannófar anois, is sa bhliain 1940-41 a gheobhfar tairbhthe an chaiteachais. Ar a shon san is uile, meastar go mbeidh barrachas de £2,000 in sna leithreasaí i gCabhair de chionn na dTionnscal Tuatha. Níl so ró-léir amhthach, ó sna Meastacháin Breise ina dteasbáintear easnamh de £1,000 mar is baoghalach go mbeidh easnamh de £3,000 sa mhéid a bheidh le fáil as an gCeilp. I gcoinnibh seo beidh £3,500 de shábháil fé Mhír-Cheann E.3—Ceannach Ceilpe.

I dteannta a shábhálfar ar cheannach na Ceilpe, beidh sábháil de £4,000 fé Mhír-Cheann H.3—(Deontaisí Tighthe): £1,600 fé Mhír-Cheann G.— (Seirbhísí Ilghnéitheacha), agus £1,900 fé roinnt Mir-Cheann eile nach iad.

Sé is fáth leis an sábháil de £4,000 fé Mhír-Cheann H.3, ná an scáth a tháinig ar dheonaithe le linn an chogaidh agus an mhoill a bhí ann, tamall, abhar tógála d'fháil. De dheascaibh seo, do mhaoluigh obair tógála ar slighe ná beidh an oiread Deontas dá n-íoc amach i rith na bliana airgidis agus a measadh a bhéadh.

Déanfar £1,630. do shábháil fé Mhír-Cheann G.—(Seirbhísí Ilghnéitheacha) toisc nár fritheadh aon iarratas feiliúnach ar Iasachtaí. Tá sábháiltí eile de £1,900 a thagann sa ghnáthchúrsa as pádh, ceannach meaisíní, fógruíocht agus stocaracht.

Chífear ó'n méid atá ráidte agam go mbeidh easnamh de £10,000 sa Vóte i gcomhair Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta, agus, dá bhrí sin, nach mór Meastachán Breise de £10,000 do sholáthar le h-aghaidh na bliana airgidis seo.

Mr. McMenamin

I should like to know where these goods to the value of £17,000 were bought. Is it all imported stuff? When this Estimate was originally before the House I objected to these Gaeltacht goods being given a description which would suggest that they were completely Gaeltacht products, whereas the yarn from which they are made is in great part imported. I propose to continue to press that these goods be manufactured from wool that is washed, dyed and spun in the Gaeltacht. I feel that, at present, there is a misdescription of these goods. Moreover, if the work I suggest were done in the Gaeltacht, it would increase employment there and everybody knows that increased employment is required in the Gaeltacht. Huge grants have been given to erect factories for other purposes. Some of these factories have already failed. No money could be better spent than in erecting a factory for this purpose. That is, if the work is not done in the homes of the people. I suggested some years ago that it should be done in the cottages but I was jeered at at that time. That, however, does not affect me. I shall not cease insisting that the entire work in the production of these articles be done in the Gaeltacht so that nobody will be able to say that the description applied to the goods is misleading in any way.

That is essential from the point of view of the description of the goods, and, secondly, in regard to the giving of employment in the Gaeltacht. I urge on the Parliamentary Secretary that, if he has any influence with the people who have the giving of grants for the erection of factories, he should endeavour to get some of the money to erect a factory for this purpose, so that the wool will be washed, dyed and spun in the Gaeltacht—either in the cottages or in the factory. One would think that it should not be necessary to suggest that at the present time.

Mr. Hickey

You would substitute work in the cottages by work in the factory?

Mr. McMenamin

Yes, but the work could be done in the people's own homes. It was there it was done in the past. That is the tradition but, unfortunately, in the past ten or 20 years, the cottage part of the industry has almost completely decayed, though in certain areas it does exist. Now, we are concerned with a hand-woven product but, as will be seen from the details given by the Parliamentary Secretary, the yarn is imported washed, dyed and spun. To that I strongly object, because it is a misrepresentation and because it is not effecting the purpose for which we are voting this money—the giving of employment in the Gaeltacht.

I can assure the Parliamentary Secretary that if he comes to this House and asks for a Vote of a sum of money to erect a factory for this purpose he will readily receive the sanction of the House. He could have had that long ago so far as I am concerned. People abroad are being paid for washing dyeing and spinning this yarn. That requires immediate attention. We vote this money to aid these areas and we never question the amount. Any sum which the Parliamentary Secretary asks is granted. The wool bought for the factory that I suggest should be of the highest quality so that yarns of the best quality would be produced and we would have in the finished article only one quality—the best.

In another Estimate, we were asked to vote a large sum of money as an extra contribution to the World's Fair at New York. That does not arise on this Estimate but I would be interested to hear what the results of the exhibit there were so far as this industry is concerned. Was any progress made? Were there supplies of material for sale there or were there samples of these goods ready for handing out to visitors? Were any ladies' costumes and gentlemen's sporting suits, combined with plus-fours, for sale there? Was there any expert tailor attached to this department in the World's Fair who would take the measurement of an important person or persons, make up a suit and present it to him or them as an advertisement?

It is a matter of business. There are 120,000,000 people in the United States of America and I take it that at least 6,000,000 of them actively pursue sports of some kind or another. There is a market for you there; somebody is catering for that market and getting it and why should we not get it? We are prepared to give the Department any money that may be required for that purpose. As a matter of fact, let me tell the Parliamentary Secretary—and I should like to have a statement from him on this matter as I expect he already has a report about it—that there were certain people at the New York World's Fair and, in their opinion, the Irish part of it— that is to say, the handicraft and the sprigging, embroidery and tweed sections of it—was very poor. They walked around there and there was nobody at all to show them anything.

Now, the Tánaiste went out to America to open this stall or stand of ours, or whatever it is technically called, and on his arrival at Cork on the return journey he was interviewed by a number of Pressmen and made the startling statement—certainly, it was startling to me—when asked about the position of Irish industries in America, that he regretted to say that they were entirely unknown. If that is true, it is a scandalous state of affairs.

Mr. O'Grady

Might I ask the Deputy which item of the Estimate he is discussing?

Mr. McMenamin

I assume that we included all, because this is one of the principal things which we should have out there. We should have a very extensive market for these things out there in America and I was amazed to read the statement of the Tánaiste to the Pressmen at Cork on his return. I do not want to keep the House very long, but there is one other item in this Estimate which really makes one despair of this Department. If the Deputies will look at it they will find that there is an estimated deficiency in the sale of kelp of £3,000. Perhaps Deputies will observe that some two or three months ago a statement was issued by the Department to the Press offering £5 10s. a ton to kelp gatherers as an inducement to them to save kelp. Of course, the House may not appreciate—not knowing much about the matter—that what remained of the autumn kelp that came in on the beaches was half rotten.

An Ceann Comhairle

Would the Deputy please indicate which item of the Estimate he is now referring to?

Mr. McMenamin

I am referring to sub-head 1, Sir.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is Appropriations-in-Aid.

Mr. McMenamin

Yes.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a sub-head. The Appropriations-in-Aid may not be discussed on an item.

Mr. McMenamin

I only want to refer to this matter of kelp in order to see what the Parliamentary Secretary did. As I was saying, the kelp at that time was half rotten.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot discuss kelp now.

Mr. McMenamin

The Parliamentary Secretary is asking for money for this Department here and this item of kelp comes into it. If the Chair rules me out, I shall drop the matter until the Estimate comes up.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has sufficient experience of Parliamentary procedure to know that, on a Supplementary Estimate, discussion is confined to the actual items for which money is asked.

Mr. McMenamin

Well, if the Chair rules me out on that——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will rule himself out if he reads the Estimate.

Mr. Linehan

There is another thing which bears on all the other Estimates to-night. May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary if he is quite correct in his first sentence where he says that the Supplementary Estimate is required to meet the cost of increased purchases? We can take that as it stands, but looking down further you will find that it could be equally well described as the increased cost of purchases. He explains further that it is required because things, apparently, are going quite well and up to expectations. As regards the £17,000 under sub-head D (6), however, how much of that is accounted for by the fact that he is buying goods now that he will require or use or that he is putting into reserve, and could any of that money have been saved by the exercise of some intelligence on the part of the Department?

They must have realised that there was going to be a European War, as everybody realised, for the last 12 months. I do not want to press this matter unduly, but I want to know how much of this £17,000 is explained by the fact that the Department may have been careless and whether, if they had used a little business-sense and foresight, they could have put in these increased stocks or reserve stocks beforehand? If I thought for a moment that the Minister in charge of this Department did what, quite obviously, has been done by several other Ministers, and failed to realise what everybody knew for the past 12 months, that is, that we were going to have a European War sooner or later, and that he had let matters slide and as a result was now putting us into the position that we were handing out £17,000 to them, I would not give the Minister this Vote.

Donnchadha O Briain

The Deputy, in his own heart, did not believe there was going to be a war.

Mr. Linehan

I have as much responsibility for that as Deputy O Briain.

Mr. B. Brady

Deputy Linehan has referred to this item under which £17,000 is required for the purchase of woollen yarn and other manufactured materials. Well, I think it is a good omen to see this money required for this industry. If Deputies Linehan and McMenamin were familiar with the subject of the Gaeltacht Industries they would know that, for the last six months at all events, these industries have experienced the busiest time that I can remember, and probably the busiest time since this branch of the Department was set up. To my mind, outside of the advertisement they got last year, it was the good work at the World's Fair that is responsible for the advance.

Mr. Linehan

As a result of the war.

Mr. B. Brady

I think we are all in agreement with Deputy McMenamin that steps should be taken to secure that the wool is dyed and spun in the Gaeltacht. Deputy McMenamin thinks this £17,000 is going out of the Gaeltacht. It is going out and coming back again.

Mr. McMenamin

Why not give the £17,000 to provide work for the people in the Gaeltacht, say in the manufacture of yarns?

Mr. B. Brady

I think that steps are about to be taken to ensure that work in connection with the manufacture of yarns will be confined to the Gaeltacht. I should like to know if the Parliamentary Secretary has any definite information for us with regard to a proposal which, I understand, his Department has placed before the Department of Finance relating to the spinning and dyeing of yarns in the Gaeltacht. If he has information on that subject I think he should give it to the House; he should let us know what progress has been made in that respect, or if any definite step is about to be taken.

Micheál Óg MacPhaidín

Níl aon locht agam ar an meastachán acht nach bhfuil sé mór go leor.

Mr. O'Grady

Deputy McMenamin, on the last occasion on which an Estimate from my Department was before the House, treated Deputies to a remarkable exhibition of cloth tearing. I wonder why he did not resume that to-day. As Deputy Brian Brady pertinently remarked, there has been an increase in sales. I am pleased to report that there has been a considerable increase in sales since Deputy McMenamin's effort to advertise our goods here in the Dáil, plus the advertisement which we got from the exhibits which we had at the New York World's Fair, and which Deputy McMenamin so adversely criticised.

Mr. McMenamin

I did not criticise them adversely. I merely gave the report of visitors, people who were there. I was not in America and I was not at the World's Fair.

Mr. O'Grady

I am pleased to report that the sales have shown a remarkable increase. That increase, to my mind, is due, first and foremost, to the activities of my predecessor in office, ex-Senator Connolly, who reorganised these industries and put them on a sound financial basis. The good work he carried out while he was in charge of this Department is now bearing fruit. These industries are now on a business basis and they are beginning to show signs of prosperity. Employment is growing, sales are increasing and our difficulty, in existing circumstances, is to provide the necessary materials. In reply to Deputy Linehan, I am happy to be able to point out that we did anticipate the war. Unlike the leaders of the Opposition, we were not blind to world circumstances. We did anticipate rising markets.

Mr. McMenamin

What about sugar?

Mr. O'Grady

We anticipated rising markets and we bought large quantities of goods; so much so, that in regard to some lines we had up to nine months' supply on hands when the war broke out. We could not possibly have anticipated everything.

Mr. Linehan

Why did you not ask for things last year—why did you not put in a full Estimate?

Mr. O'Grady

There was a phenomenal increase in sales, and we could not possibly have estimated for everything. There was a tremendous increase in sales that we could not possibly have anticipated. Nothing like it occurred in recent years; even when our predecessors were in office there was never such an increase indicated. As I have stated, we did anticipate the war and we made purchases accordingly. We did not anticipate the increased sales which, I am pleased to report, took place during the last 12 months. I should also like to point out that there is every prospect that the sales will continue to expand. With regard to the point made by Deputy Brady and Deputy McMenamin about the use of Irish yarns, up to the present our difficulty is to get all Irish yarns. If Deputy McMenamin wanted to know, he could easily find out what the situation is like from one of his colleagues; there was no occasion for him to pass his colleague from Donegal, Deputy McFadden. Deputy McFadden could tell him that it is not possible to get all Irish yarns at the present time. I hope, however, that in the very near future we will be able to instal a spinning mill in the Gaeltacht so as to produce all our own yarns from Irish wool.

Mr. McMenamin

Will you dye it there also?

Mr. O'Grady

The yarns will be completely manufactured there, completed in every detail. Once again I should like to point out that, despite the adverse criticism offered by Deputy McMenamin when he attacked this particular branch of the service, we are making considerable progress. Deputy McMenamin represents the Gaeltacht; he represents an area which supplies a good portion of the materials which are used in the manufacture of Irish goods. I am surprised that any Deputy coming from the north-west should show such little interest in the development of Irish industries in his own locality as to single them out for attack rather than provide constructive, helpful criticism. Deputy McMenamin's contributions to the debate here have been anything but constructive, yet, despite his criticisms, I am glad to say that we are making progress.

Vote agreed to.

Supplementary and Additional Estimates reported and agreed to.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.27 p.m., until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 28th February, 1940.