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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Mar 1942

Vol. 86 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Vote 61—Posts and Telegraphs.

I move:

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh £1,629,580 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1943, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig an Aire Puist agus Telegrafa (45 agus 46 Vict., c 74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 agus 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; na hAchtanna Telegrafa, 1863 do 1928, etc.); agus Seirbhísí áirithe eile atá fé riaradh na hOifige sin.

That a sum not exceeding £1,629,580 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1943, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (45 and 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; The Telegraph Acts, 1863 to 1928; etc.), and of certain other Services administered by that Office.

The total of the estimated Post Office expenditure for 1942-43 is £2,513,580, representing a net decrease of £33,273 on the provision for 1941-42. The gross decrease amounts to £63,158, due mainly, to anticipated lower payments to the British Administration in respect of outgoing parcel traffic from Eire; due also to expected lesser payments to other administrations in respect of money orders and postal orders issued, and of air mail correspondence posted, for countries abroad; reduced purchases of uniform clothing, of motor transport and of other stores owing to restrictions on supplies; reduced telegraph and telephone construction and renewal work; lower telephone capital repayments; smaller provision in respect of superannuation allowances, etc., etc. Offsetting the reductions there are increases totalling £30,420, the result chiefly of extra staff requirements for augmented telegraph and telephone business; of payment to sub-postmasters for the issue of food vouchers; provision for increments; higher costs of fuel and light; increased expenditure on conveyance of mails by road owing to growing costs; additional payments in respect of retirements under Article 10 of the Treaty; additional staff and equipment for civil aviation purposes, etc., etc. These increases, in conjunction with a lower credit (£535) in respect of Appropriations-in-Aid, make the estimated net decrease in expenditure £33,273.

The financial position of the three main Post Office services—postal, telegraph and telephone—as ascertained from the commercial accounts for the financial year 1940-41, the last period for which these accounts are available, is as follows:—

Postal services.—Revenue, £1,575,589; expenditure, £1,690,846; deficit, £115,257.

Telegraph services. —Revenue, £189,566; expenditure, £319,769; deficit, £130,203.

Telephone services. — Revenue, £647,759; expenditure, £557,369; surplus, £90,390.

That is to say, the surplus of £90,390 on the telephones at the end of 1940/41, was off-set by a deficit of £245,460 on the postal and telegraph services combined, leaving a net deficit on the three services of £155,070, an increase of £142,621 on the deficit at the end of the preceding year. The larger deficit was the result partly of a falling off in postal traffic in 1940-41, caused by emergency conditions, and partly of additional expenditure on staff to meet growth of telegraph and telephone traffic; on substitution of officers on military service or on loan to other Government Departments; building up of reserve stocks of stores; increased provision for depreciation of engineering plant, necessitated by the expansion of the telephone system, etc., etc.

Post Office revenue, that is, actual cash receipts, considerably improved during the financial year now concluding. This was mainly the result of the increased charges which became operative in June of last year. The total revenue for 1941-42 is estimated at £2,292,000, an increase, approximately, of £311,200 on that for the year preceding. Of this increase, approximately £241,800 is attributable to the increased charges, the balance arising from additional telegraph and telephone traffic. Whether revenue can be maintained at its existing level during the next financial year will, of course, largely depend upon the nature and degree of further emergency developments and their reactions on general business activities. At the present stage it would appear as if a drop of about £66,000 must be reckoned on.

The internal mail service generally suffered material deterioration during the past year by reason of the curtailment of train services on the Great Southern Railways system owing to the unsatisfactory coal situation. The difficulties, which first manifested themselves in July last, developed seriously in October, when the railway company found it impracticable to provide, over the greater portion of their system, more than one service a day in each direction that would be of any utility for mail purposes. As a result, however, of discussions which took place with the company, the mails position has since substantially improved and, although there is still unavoidable irregularity in train running, the principal places on the eastern and southern sections have now two outgoing and two incoming mail services each week-day. On the western section the train services available do not admit of more than one mail a day each way. The situation is, of course, entirely the result of emergency conditions and one over which neither the Post Office nor the railway company can exercise any effective control; and, unfortunately, the restrictions on petrol supplies have ruled out road transport as a possible means of improvement. Indeed, the serious position in regard to petrol which is now developing will compel the Department to proceed, as early as practicable, with the substitution of existing motor mail services by other forms of transport. While every effort will be made to carry out the change with a minimum of public inconvenience, it will be appreciated that some disimprovement in the times of deliveries and despatches in many country districts will be unavoidable.

The cross-channel service between Dún Laoghaire and Holyhead is still restricted to one sailing a day each way. The Sunday service on this route was discontinued in September last, mails being conveyed instead by cargo services from and to the North Wall. Agreement has been come to in conjunction with the British Administration for a reduction of the remuneration paid to the contractors, the London, Midland and Scottish Railway Company, in respect of the restricted services. The use of the Rosslare-Fishguard route for mails has been discontinued, the services now operative being wholly unsuitable.

Foreign mail services have been further adversely affected by the extension of the war zone and the exchange of correspondence with various countries in the Far East has had to be suspended. The volume of foreign traffic generally has fallen considerably and, even where services continue to be practicable, the times occupied in transmission are considerably prolonged. Incoming mails from all places abroad arrive very irregularly. The slowness and uncertainty of surface transport were, however, the cause of a remarkable increase in air mail traffic during the past year. Thus, the number of items posted for conveyance by the North Atlantic air mail service in 1941 amounted to about 420,000, as compared with about 47,000 in 1940. Correspondence for other air services also substantially increased.

The financial position of the telegraph service at the end of 1940/41 showed an improvement as compared with that at the close of the preceding year, the loss on the services falling from £141,562 to £130,203, a decrease of £11,359. The improvement was due mainly to additional credits in respect of services rendered to other Government Departments. There was actually a fall in traffic receipts in 1940/41 because, although the number of internal telegrams rose appreciably by reason of emergency conditions affecting general trade and industry, e.g., restrictions of transport services, difficulties as regards supplies, slowing down of mail communication, etc., the increase was more than offset by a decline in traffic with Northern Ireland, Great Britain and places abroad. While the traffic position improved in the year now concluding, namely, 1941/42, both as regards volume and revenue, the betterment was the result wholly of circumstances arising out of the emergency and it must, I fear, be accepted that, when these disappear, the normal tendency of the telegraphs to decline, owing to the growing expansion of telephones, will again manifest itself. This is, however, an experience common to all administrations and the reductions of rates, which are not infrequently suggested, would at present prove no effective remedy. But decline in traffic will not, unfortunately, be accompanied by a corresponding reduction in costs. The telegraphs are essential for people—the great bulk of the population—who cannot be reached by telephone and, so long as traffic continues to arise, staff for its expeditious disposal must be provided and an elaborate and expensive system of lines and apparatus maintained, even if the cost thereby involved be not covered by the revenue accruing. While, therefore, the telegraphs must be continued, there is no prospect whatever of any substantial or permanent improvement in the financial position of the service.

The scheme for provision of telegraph communication between islands off the western and south western coasts, having populations of 100 and over, and the mainland has been completed. In all 19 islands now have service—six by cable, one by overhead line and the remainder by wireless. Three of the islands—Bere Island, Arranmore and Inishmore (Galway)—have public telephone as well as telegraph communication with the mainland.

The telephone service continues to expand steadily. Revenue during the past 12 months shows an estimated increase of about £45,000 on that of the previous year. Of the increase, approximately £18,000 is the result of the 5 per cent. Budget increase in tariffs which became operative in October last, the balance being due to extra receipts from traffic which has expanded in remarkable degree. During the 12 months ended 31st December last the number of local calls made was 36,000,000, an increase of 1,471,000 on the local traffic in 1940. The number of trunk calls was 4,966,000, an increase of 927,000. The increase in trunk traffic was entirely on internal calls, that is calls within Éire. In considering the figures of expansion, however, it must be borne in mind that the great bulk of the increase was the result of the emergency conditions and cannot, therefore, be regarded as of a permanent character. There was a decrease of approximately 52,000 in the calls to Northern Ireland and Great Britain due to war conditions. The Continental and overseas telephone services have been suspended since the outbreak of hostilities.

The total number of subscribers' lines at the end of 1941 was 30,602, an increase of 1,359 on the previous year. The total number of telephones in use was 47,407, an increase of 2,025. The number of automatic telephones in the Dublin and Dun Laoghaire areas is now 26,172, an increase of 1,329. The transfer of subscribers in the Ballsbridge exchange to the automatic system was completed early last year. It is unlikely that any further transfers to the automatic system can be undertaken until emergency conditions have passed.

Five new exchanges and two new public call offices were opened during the year. There are now 841 exchanges and 1,512 call offices, including 153 street kiosks. Forty-nine additional trunk circuits were provided. The number of high efficiency "carrier" circuits on the main trunk routes is now 74, an increase of 12.

Completion of the new telephone exchange in Exchequer Street, Dublin, has been delayed owing to difficulties in supply of plant and equipment. Every effort is being made to expedite installation, and it is hoped that it may be possible to have the exchange in service by the end of the year. As I have mentioned on previous occasions it is the intention, later, to provide an additional exchange in St. Andrew Street, linked with Exchequer Street, so as to admit of the trunks being wholly removed from the Crown Alley exchange, which will then function solely as an automatic exchange for local service.

Capital expenditure on telephone in 1941-42 was, approximately, £120,000. The programme for the coming year will involve about £145,000. Of the latter amount, approximately £65,000 will be in respect of additional subscribers' and renters' circuits; £31,000 for automatics, mainly for equipment in Exchequer Street and Crown Alley; £23,000 for underground development schemes in Dublin and the provinces; £11,000 for additional overhead trunks; £3,000 for high efficiency "carrier" circuits, etc. While it is hoped that it will be possible to carry out the contemplated programme in full, the practicability of doing so will be largely dependent on the extent to which further demands for the provision of telephone facilities for emergency services are made on the Department.

The bulk of the plant and apparatus used for engineering purposes in Eire is manufactured outside the country and renewal of supplies is now a matter of the utmost difficulty, certain items being, in fact, unobtainable. For this reason the policy of economy in regard to engineering construction stores, which had to be adopted last year, must be continued, and with even greater rigidity—construction works which involve any substantial quantity of plant being, except where essential services are concerned, curtailed to the utmost. Subject to the preservation of the stores position, however, it is hoped that it will be feasible to continue to provide service to new subscribers residing within a reasonable distance of a telephone exchange. Applications involving the use of any substantial quantity of plant may have to remain over indefinitely. I may mention that the facility hitherto available for the plugging in of a telephone at different points in a subscriber's residence can now only be provided in the most exceptional circumstances owing to shortage of materials.

The standard of service throughout the country as a whole is reasonably satisfactory, both as regards speed in answering and quality of transmission, especially having regard to the circumstances of the times. The abnormal increase of trunk traffic to which I have already referred and the necessity for giving priority to urgent calls on defence and other emergency services give rise at times to unavoidable delay, but the position is entirely the result of emergency conditions and there is no complete remedy. The additional trunk circuits provided during the past year tended to improve matters and the further trunks which it is intended to provide during the coming year will still further ameliorate the position. I would like it to be understood, however, that even if difficulties in regard to supplies of engineering stores did not exist, it would not be possible to provide circuits to cater fully for the increased traffic, the bulk of which is, as I have said, of an emergency and non-permanent character.

The standard of the local service generally is definitely good. In Dublin the automatic service is occasionally affected by the inadequacy of the equipment in Crown Alley exchange where, at peak periods, on account of the growing traffic, congestion sometimes results. Any difficulties in this connection, however, particularly as regards calls to "0", "30", and "31", will disappear when the new exchange in Exchequer Street is in operation. The position is one which cannot be wholly rectified earlier.

The considerable pressure experienced in the stores branch during 1940, by reason of conditions arising out of the emergency, continued unabated during practically the whole of 1941. The total value of contracts placed amounted to £1,921,500, of which £1,784,350, or 93 per cent. was in respect of articles manufactured or assembled in Éire. The figures are on practically the same level as those of the previous year. The bulk of the expenditure was in respect of clothing and equipment for the new forces, and the orders placed with factories and mills in Eire were of material assistance to many of them in keeping their operatives in employment. The Post Office factory was utilised to supply deficiencies in various items ordinarily obtained from outside contractors, but which were not forthcoming, by reason, mainly, of inability to procure the necessary raw materials, and an average increase of 14 in the workers employed in the factory resulted for a time. The difficulties arising from the largely increased volume of stores supply work were greatly accentuated during the year by the more stringent restrictions placed on the export of materials from Great Britain, as well as by shipping difficulties in the case of orders placed in the United States of America.

Owing to the complete stoppage of imports of foreign timber, all poles now purchased for telegraph and telephone purposes are of native origin. The home-grown poles are, however, only suitable for light construction.

In regard to Post Office buildings, final plans for the improvement of the accommodation at James's Street District Office, Dublin, have been settled and it is expected that building work can commence within the next three months or so. It is hoped, too, that it will be practicable to proceed before long with the improvement and extension of the office accommodation at Thurles. Also that it may be possible to make some progress during the year with the proposed new office in St. Andrew Street, Dublin, which is to replace the present office in College Green.

The position of the savings bank continues to be very satisfactory. The number of depositors at the close of the year 1941 shows an increase of 24,000. The ordinary deposits for the year amounted to £3,646,000 and the withdrawals to £2,164,800. There was thus a net increase of £1,481,200 in the balance remaining invested, exclusive of interest earned during the year which amounted to approximately £319,500. The deposits were £419,800 more, and the withdrawals £146,800 less, than those for the preceding year.

In addition to the ordinary deposits a sum of £583,250 was deposited by way of investment in respect of moneys received by the Minister for Finance for the credit of trustee savings banks under Section 31 of the Finance Act, 1940, bringing the total so invested since the 21st November, 1940, up to £624,650. Of this amount £15,100 was withdrawn by the banks during the year. The interest credited to the banks in respect of these investments amounted to approximately £7,800.

The provision, under sub-head Q for Civil Aviation and Meteorological Wireless Services, which are provided and operated by the Post Office on behalf of the Department of Industry and Commerce, amounts to £36,885, an increase of £14,825 on the provision for 1941-42. The increase is due almost entirely to increased staff requirements and to provision for installation and maintenance of additional apparatus.

The staff of the Department performed their various duties throughout the year with customary efficiency, and I take this opportunity of expressing my appreciation thereof.

There is just one point that I should like to have cleared up. I gathered from the Minister's remarks about the shortage of telephone apparatus, that the likelihood is that no new application for a telephone will be granted. I am not quite sure whether that is so, but I should be very pleased indeed to hear that it is not. In any event, I understand that applicants for telephones have had to put up with very serious delays in the matter of having their applications granted during the past 12 months. I am quite prepared to believe that there are adequate and satisfactory explanations for such delays. I think it is only right that I should say that on any occasion on which I have had communication with the Department, I have been treated with the utmost courtesy, and I believe that is a very general experience. I should like an assurance from the Minister that in the case of doctors who seek an extension of their telephones, or additions by way of plugs, that their applications for such essential apparatus will be granted. I am well aware that there is a great deal of uneasiness in the minds of many doctors in regard to these matters. I think the Minister will agree that a telephone is almost an essential part of a doctor's equipment. It is at least as essential as any part of his medical or surgical equipment. I think that, as a class, doctors should be accorded priority, second to none, and I should be very pleased if the Minister could see his way to give me that assurance.

There are many things that one would like to deal with on this Vote, but it appears from the Minister's statement that very many of the Department's activities are tied up as a result of the emergency conditions. One is at a loss to know how it is that a Department like this, using standard instruments which had almost reached perfection, and unlimited quantities of which could have been purchased prior to the outbreak of war, did not make some effort to purchase adequate supplies while they were still available. If the position is that for the duration of the war there will be no substantial extension of the telephone system, just at a time when the country was beginning to get telephone-minded, I think it is rather tragic. I cannot understand how it was that a Department of this kind, having regard to its own experience and the experience that could be obtained from other countries and from attending international conferences, did not go into the market prior to the outbreak of war, not to mention the period immediately after the outbreak of war, and buy at least sufficient equipment to meet the requirements of this country for at least four years.

I note from the Minister's statement that only 1,300 new telephones were installed in this country in the past year. I wonder were these all new installations or were some merely additions to installations already in existence? In a country such as this, where the telephone system is only in its infancy, I think that is a very small increase. Apparently no new installations will be permitted until after the war except under very special conditions. Of course there is no use in flogging a dead horse, but certainly one feels like doing so on this occasion. It seems as if this Department were affected by the bug that affected so many other Departments, whether due to lack of experience, lack of vision or lack of courage, and that it did not make any provision to meet our requirements over a substantial period, a period of at least four years from the outbreak of the emergency. The position in which this Department finds itself is certainly in keeping with the general condition of things in other Departments.

I should like the Minister to appreciate the new circumstances that will arise, where it would be incumbent upon him to have ample provision made for extensive installations of the telephone. In a month's time, entirely new conditions will exist in this country, particularly in the rural areas. Motor traffic will have disappeared, and men in various walks of life will find themselves confined to their own homes with no means of carrying on that part of their business for which they had hitherto used their motor cars. I do not know what has taken place in the Department, but I am quite sure that there must have been hundreds of applications from such people for telephone installations, and, as a result of the Minister's statement this evening, they will find that they have to remain isolated for the period of the war. How they will carry on their business I really do not know. I sincerely regret that such a state of affairs should exist. To put it mildly, the lack of foresight in the conduct of the Department calls for the gravest censure.

The Minister has referred to the delays in trunk calls owing to pressure at certain times. In the parts of the country where the Army is situated, I find that during the day, when the ordinary professional and commercial work of the community is being carried on, for a couple of hours at a time the Army is on the line, and, of course, the professional and commercial calls cannot get through. I quite appreciate a difficulty of that kind, but I think the Minister should get into consultation with the Minister for Defence, and suggest to him that, when there is no actual emergency in this country and no abnormal conditions exist, instructions should be sent to the Army that they should not use the line until such time as the professional and commercial calls are off, that is to say, that they should send their messages to other Army headquarters somewhere after 6 o'clock in the evening.

I quite appreciate that, if there were a real emergency, if there were an invasion of this country, everything else would have to go by the board, but, in present circumstances, I do not see any reason at all why the Army should use the trunk lines for hours during the day, perhaps in connection with petty matters that are not urgent at all, thereby holding up the transaction of business by the commercial community and the professional classes.

The Minister read his statement pretty quickly, and I should like to have had a copy in order to look into the details. As I was not here for portion of his statement, I do not know whether the Department lacks such equipment as poles and cables. On the question of poles, we have a first-class cement industry in this country, and, if some iron to reinforce the cement could be obtained, I do not see why we should not make use of concrete poles. Even in peace times, when we could import timber from abroad, I do not think we should do it. With two cement factories in this country turning out first-class material, I do not see why we should not make use of it. I do not know anything about engineering, so I cannot say whether there are any engineering obstacles in the way, but I do think that, as far as possible, we should make use of that cement. I do not know anything about the question of the durability of concrete as against timber, but I should say that well-made concrete poles would last just as long as timber ones, if not longer, because of their resistance to the weather.

The Minister referred to the office in St. Andrew Street. That site has been an eyesore for years. The Department has been paying rent for the site and nothing at all is being done. It is a terrible commentary on a Government Department that nothing should have been done in regard to that matter. What will be the cost to-day as compared with six or seven years ago?

There is one other matter to which I should like to draw the Minister's attention, and that is the question of rural sub-offices, particularly those in which telephones have been installed during the last ten years. I do not know what provision has been made with regard to remunerating the people who own the sub-offices where telephones have been installed, but I hope the Minister will take into consideration the fact that from 8 or 9 o'clock in the morning until 7 o'clock, or in some cases until 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock at night, those offices have to be kept open. I think the hours depend on the number of subscribers?

That is right.

Generally, what you find is that a man and his wife— or perhaps a woman by herself—take those offices, or they may have had the post office already, the telephone being installed later. I hope the Department will not act in a niggardly way, and treat those people as slaves. Some assistance should be provided, in order to give them hours off. I for one will not be a party to imposing intolerable burdens on them. We all use those people; the State uses them and the public use them, but at the same time they are being ground down, without any consideration at all for their health. Let us picture one of those rural sub-offices, which open somewhere about 8 or 9 o'clock in the morning. There is a telephone installed. The woman who owns the office has to stay there during the whole day. If she goes out to the kitchen to cook some food she has no sooner left the office than the telephone bell rings and she has to go back again. She is kept running backwards and forwards the whole time, and one can visualise that all during the year she would not be able to get one meal in comfort. Anyone who knows anything about business will appreciate what happens in such an office, when one person has to do the work by herself. So far as I can see, the payment for those people in sub-offices is niggardly. I want to hear definitely from the Minister what provision is made in that regard, because I think it is the duty of this House to see that those people are not used by the Department and the public without any recognition of the burden that is being imposed upon them.

During the last six or seven years additional burdens have been placed upon them in connection with unemployment assistance and so on. I do not know what additional remuneration is given in consideration of the telephone installation in the office. I hope it is commensurate with the burdens imposed, and that it allows for a trained post office assistant who will be responsible for connecting up the exchange, collecting money for calls and such duties, because in that case the person taken in will have to be competent and trained. If there is a public demand for these services, they will have to be paid for and it would be very unjust to impose these burdens on men or women in very humble circumstances without paying for them. If we are to ask for these services, we must be prepared to pay for them.

I should like the Minister to make a comprehensive statement on that matter and to say that, if no provision is made in that respect, the matter will be taken in hand and taken in hand courageously. Much of the money earned by the Post Office is paid out in other directions and people in other branches of the service are well paid in comparison with these men and women, and I am not going to see these people, some of them single women, in sub-offices, made slaves and compelled to carry out post office work, such as selling postal orders, unemployment assistance orders and stamps, and also compelled to attend the telephone from morning to night. If such a person has nobody to help her, she cannot leave the office at all and there is only one end to that sort of thing. It will mean a break-down in their health and they will be martyrs for the public. If that is to be the position, let them be paid for it. In my opinion, we will have to get to the stage at which there will be an assistant in each of these exchanges, and it is no answer to say that there are only eight, ten or 12 subscribers. So long as the telephone is there, it may be called into service at any moment, and these people must attend to it. I think these people would be perfectly justified in taking any steps to assert their rights.

I should like to refer to another matter in connection with these people. I wonder if, during the past year, since the rationing of kerosene for domestic use was enforced, the Department made provision for these people. I think that some steps were to be taken in the matter, but were any steps taken? Did the Minister see to it that provision was made to enable these people to carry on their work? An allowance of five gallons a month was given to public houses—public houses which perhaps would not sell £2 worth of drink in a month, or would not sell as much drink in a year as would pay the licence duty, or into which a single person would not go from dark until it closed at nine or ten o'clock. Has the Minister seen to it that an allocation of paraffin oil was made to these sub-offices to carry on the work of his Department, or had these people to go poking about in the dark all last winter? If that were the position simply because of red tape, simply because the Department of Supplies said: "We will give so much oil to such and such a class and none to another class," it represents a terrible imposition. Were these people given only the ordinary domestic ration of one gallon per month, which, of course, would be farcical in the case of a post office? If the Minister has not attended to that matter, I suggest he should see to it before next winter and arrange for some provision for these people.

It is perhaps late in the day to refer to this matter, as I have referred to it in the last five or seven years, but, in this city, within the canal boundary, there is a collection as late as 12 o'clock at night, while on the other side of the canal bridge the last collection is 8.30 at night. I could never understand why fast-travelling mechanical transport could not go out to the suburban areas, so that people whose letters come when they have left home in the morning could catch a late collection at night. When these people come home in the evening, their letters await them, say, at 7 o'clock, and, by the time they have had dinner, it is too late to write a letter which will catch the 8.30 collection. There may be some explanation of it, but I cannot understand why, with mechanical transport, that should be the case. I could understand it when horse vans were being used, but I cannot see why there should not be a later collection when fast motor vans are used.

Deputy Hannigan referred to the shortage of materials and the position in relation to new applicants. The position in that regard is that we had fairly large reserves, but these were eaten into by emergency provisions. We put down, I think, something like 200 miles of wire for military and defence purposes which, of course, ate into our large reserves. We are constantly trying to get supplies and sometimes have been lucky in getting a little extra wire, but, on the whole, we are rather shorter in wire than in poles. As to delays, it might be as well for me to deal with that matter, because it may save a little disappointment. In the Dublin area, delay in the installation of lines for ordinary users, business and private, continues abnormal. Contributory causes are (a) pressure of emergency works, and (b) shortage of spares and underground cables in certain areas. Average delay on provision of lines is probably up to about a month. In the central area of the city, where spares are free, many lines are provided in a much shorter time, but, in outlying areas, there is generally longer delay owing to lack of cable spares, and, as the case may be, the amount of overhead construction work involved. In the provinces, with the exception of the city areas of Cork, Waterford and Limerick, delay is prolonged, due to general emergency pressure, and is also likely to be considerably extended if much construction work is involved. It is not possible to give an average delay period, as the conditions vary so much. When we were laying down rules for restrictions I stipulated especially for hospitals and doctors that they should get exceptional treatment. We felt that that was a service we could not well neglect. I think that Deputy Hannigan will find that any doctors who came to us received very satisfactory treatment within the last few years.

Deputy McMenamin raised a question about equipment for the installation of new telephones. You cannot provide against a very long period in advance; you must look at the matter from the point of view of outlay of capital and storage capacity. I think we showed considerable foresight in the large quantity of stores that we got in during the year previous to the commencement of the war.

We did examine very closely the question of making our poles out of concrete. From the transport aspect the weight would be so enormous as to make the whole idea almost impracticable. Then again, there is a considerable shortage of steel for the purpose of reinforcing the poles. For that reason it would be practically impossible for us at the present time to make those poles. We have been using native poles for the smaller undertakings to a considerable extent, as the Deputy probably noticed in the country.

The Deputy mentioned the site in St. Andrew Street. In the beginning there was a good deal of legal difficulty. There were claims by different parties and these had to be cleared up and to do that took some time.

Delays of the law?

Yes, as the Deputy should very well know.

And delays of the Post Office on top of that?

No. The Deputy was exaggerating when he spoke of the number of years. We acquired the site about four years ago and the building would have reached an advanced stage by now were it not for the war. The lack of steel and other things makes it impossible to do much work beyond dealing with the foundations and other preparatory work, which we propose to do. The plans have been prepared and submitted to the Office of Works. Contract drawings will probably be ready shortly, but as there is no prospect of carrying out works at present with heavy steel, it is probable that the structure will be of reinforced concrete. It is hoped that it may be possible to make some progress with the work during the year.

The picture drawn by the Deputy of the sub-postmaster and sub-postmistress was very far from the truth. I wish, instead of drawing on his imagination, the Deputy had made inquiries from some of the offices in his constituency. Had he done so, he would have got a more accurate picture.

I am not going to ask any Government official to give me information on that matter. This is the place to get that information.

If the Deputy continues to draw on his imagination in those matters and will not endeavour to secure information beforehand, then the weight he will carry in this House will not be very great. I must say I have never found any difficulty in getting applicants for sub-post offices. The difficulty is to choose between the applicants, who regard the post as something remunerative. The work which they do is paid for by the unit; the payment is in proportion to the amount of work they do. They are paid extra if the traffic is very continuous and if they have to do work after 8 o'clock in the evening. They are always allowed to have their families to help them in that work. There is no rule by which they must do it themselves.

Are the members of the family paid?

It is all paid for according to the units of work done. As well as that, they usually have a little shop, and the fact that they have the post office means bringing custom to the shop.

What is the average payment to these people?

That would be an extremely difficult thing to indicate.

Could you give me an approximate idea?

It would be quite impossible. It would take a considerable time for the post office officials to make out the elaborate calculations necessary to arrive at what the Deputy is asking.

I believe it would run from £18 to about £400. The Deputy asked why there were no collections outside the central city area. There is a "points" collection at important points throughout the city and suburbs between 10.30 p.m. and 11.30 p.m. There is, for example, a collection at Ballsbridge about 11 p.m. and at Sandymount about 10.45 p.m. I think I have dealt with all the points that were raised.

Vote put and agreed to.
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