asked the Minister for Supplies if he will state whether he is aware that many persons in the poorer parts of Dublin are unable to get 80 per cent. of their normal bread supply, which is supposed to be available, and if he will have an immediate inquiry made into the causes which bring about this shortage in the poorer areas of the city, and have steps taken to secure that in these areas the proper supply will be made available.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Bread Supply in Dublin.
Complaints have been made that persons in different districts of Dublin have been unable to get their normal supplies of bread and such complaints have been investigated. I am satisfied that there is no shortage of bread supplies in the poorer areas of Dublin, especially in the bakers' shops. In fact, the amount of bread which is at present being distributed in Dublin is giving me serious cause for concern as it is far in excess of the proportion of the stocks available to meet the country's requirements until the next harvest.
Has the Minister paid any attention to that part of the report which the Press say was received from inspectors of the Department of Supplies which states that in most cases where the inspector has visited Dublin shops where bread queues have been formed regularly there was no bread shortage, implying that there were cases where there was a shortage? Will he say at what particular shops the inspector found there was a shortage and what steps he has taken to see that that shortage is made up?
It can happen, of course, that the supply in an individual shop will run out, and the Deputy will understand that in present circumstances there must be a curtailment of bread consumption by everybody. Nobody can get the full quantity of bread they may desire to obtain. In the bakers' shops, however, there is a full supply of bread to meet the demands of the customers registered at those shops, but frequently people who are not registered at those shops endeavour to obtain bread there, and these people are on occasions refused supplies and told to go to the trader who normally supplies them. But, in the bakers' shops of Dublin, as a whole, the quantity of bread is quite considerable. In fact, it is so considerable as to indicate that the persons supplied by those shops are getting more than their due supply.
What does the Minister mean by talking of people registered at these shops?
The bakers who own these shops have made arrangements to register the customers normally supplied by them through these shops.
Is the Minister aware that persons who have been dealing at particular bakers' shops for the last 15 years are not able to get 80 per cent. of their supply; that there were people who stood in queues on Saturday last in the City of Dublin who went away without any bread to face the Saturday and the Sunday; that there were families of, say, five, who could get only two loaves to carry them over the week-end; and that there are places in the City of Dublin where there is a serious shortage of bread, and where poor, large, families are undergoing great hardships because they cannot get bread? Would the Minister say, if he is able to send inspectors around, as is implied by the report in the Press, whether these inspectors have interviewed or will interview the people who are the habitues of these queues, of necessity?
They have done so.
These inspectors were on duty on the Saturday to which the Deputy has referred, and in every case have reported to me that after the queues had been served and disappeared, there was still bread left for sale in the shops.
And was there any inquiry made as to whether that surplus of bread was created by reason of the fact that people with large families were refused more than two loaves at those shops?
I do not think so.
Will the Minister publish a list of those shops where, according to the inspectors, the position is satisfactory and there is no shortage?
No.
Or will the Minister make available for Deputies of this House copies of the inspectors' reports?
No.
Does the Minister realise that there is a serious and important social question here?
I realise that fully.
Will the Minister give the people who are troubled in, this particular way and the people undergoing hardships a chance of having their cases heard and their position understood?
Mr. Byrne
Might I ask the Minister whether he is aware that no later than yesterday complaints were received by Deputies that fathers and mothers with six children only got two loaves to put them over the day? I have one which I received this morning in which a lady says:
"I beg to tell you that I have six children and I registered at Flynn's dairy. I only got two loaves for two days. I cannot get flour or flakemeal, the only other articles that will fill them. They are all strapping boys with good appetites. They range from ten years of age down to two and a half."
Even this morning queues of people after waiting three or four hours could not get more than half their supplies.
If there is no scarcity of bread and flour——
There is a scarcity and that is why we have to curtail supplies of bread to everybody. I want Deputy Byrne to appreciate that an equitable distribution of the available supplies of bread will not give more than two loaves to a family of eight.
We are told that 80 per cent, of the normal requirements is available and the case we are making for these unfortunate people——
Through the bakers more than 80 per cent. is going out.
The people are not getting it.
Somebody is.
There is no use in the Minister getting excited.
It is Deputies who are getting excited.
Do I understand that 80 per cent. of the normal supplies are available?
In bakers' shops more than 80 per cent. is available.
And the poor people could at least expect 80 per cent. of their normal requirements?
Certainly.
They are not getting it.
They are.
asked the Minister for Supplies if he will state whether he is aware that much hardship is still being caused to hundreds of persons in Dublin who have to wait in bread queues to get any bread supplies, and if he will cause immediate inquiry to be made into the circumstances which give rise to the necessity for these queues, and have steps taken to prevent the necessity for them.
asked the Minister for Supplies if he is aware that every day during Holy Week queues of men, women and children in increasing numbers were delayed for hours outside bread shops waiting for bread to arrive from the bakeries; and if he will consult the master bakers with a view to ascertaining whether the exceptional delays are due to (a) lack of organisation, (b) shortage of man-power or equipment, (c) delayed issues of flour from the millers to bakeries, or (d) to any other cause.
I will deal with questions Nos. 10 and 14 together. I am aware that queues are still forming outside bakers' bread shops in some parts of the city. Officers of my Department have carried out a number of investigations with a view to ascertaining the reason for such queues and I am satisfied from their reports that it is not a shortage of bread. Ample supplies of bread are made available to meet the reasonable requirements of the customers registered for supplies at these bakers' shops. In some cases people forming queues appear to have apprehensions that they may be unable to obtain, supplies if they delay making purchases but, generally speaking, the main cause of the queues is the desire of customers to obtain freshly baked bread.
Mr. Byrne
Will the Minister ask the master bakers to meet him and give them some opportunity of explaining the matter?
The master bakers meet me regularly.
Mr. Byrne
I had an interview with a master baker and he told me there was a lack of organising ability somewhere. If the flour is there they ought to get their share, and some of them are not getting their share. Even to-day I am informed there are queues of 300 and 400 people waiting outaide the shops.
If the Deputy has a question to ask he should do so.
Mr. Byrne
Last Saturday I saw a woman taken out of a queue in a faintins condition.
The Deputy may not make a speech.
The persons forming queues on many occasions, when interviewed by officers of the Department and asked why they were waiting in queues when there was bread on sale at the time, in nine cases out of ten replied that they were waiting for the fresh bread.
Will the Minister investigate these cases?
I will investigate any case.
Will the Minister give Dublin Deputies who wish it an opportunity of visiting some of these queues with some of his inspectors?
No. I think there is enough political propaganda being made out of our difficulties already.
If the Minister approaches this question with the suggestion that it is for the purpose of making profit out of the difficulties that Deputies are putting questions on this matter, then we can be of no help to him. Does the Minister not understand that we have been told by him publicly, and that he has emphasised it here again to-day, that 80 per cent. of the normal bread requirements of Dublin is available? He has had reports from his inspectors and we ask him will he lay those reports in the library so that Deputies can peruse them and from the details of these reports be assisted. Will he either do that, or will he allow some of those inspectors to go with any Dublin Deputy or Deputies interested in the matter and question people in these queues so that wo may arrive at the facts and avoid misunderstanding as between the Minister and ourselves?
I could not agree to that at all. The inspectors' reports were submitted, not for publication, but for the information of the Minister.
Does the Minister realise that these reports as carried to the Press are contradictory and imply that the complaints made about the situation are in fact substantially correct?
Mr. Byrne
I wish to give an emphatic repudiation to the inspectors' reports.
Such a repudiation is not in order.
Mr. Byrne
I want to get that on record, because the reports are not correct.