I gave notice of my intention to raise on the Adjournment the unsatisfactory reply of the Minister for Local Government and Public Health, acting on behalf of the Minister for Finance, in connection with some questions which I addressed to the Minister for Finance on turf cutters' wages last week. My question last week was designed to ascertain what rate of wages it was proposed to pay sleansmen and wheelers employed in the production of national turf in County Kildare for the current year, and I was informed in reply that workers engaged in turf production on the Government camp scheme will be paid at the rate of 32/- per week of 48 hours, with overtime at the rate of 1/- per hour. In the case of workers residing in the camps a deduction of 5/- per week will be made in respect of board and lodging. Piece-work will be paid for at rates set to earn for a good worker 1¼ times the time rate.
I endeavoured, then, to elicit from the Minister what rate of wages would be paid in respect of local turf cutters who are not resident in the camp. I was informed by the Minister for Local Government and Public Health that these persons would be paid the same rate as persons residing in the camp. At all events, that gives a picture of turf cutters' wages for the coming year. Those residing in the Government camps are to be paid 32/- per week, less 5/- for food which they get in the camp, meaning a net wage for these workers of 27/-. A local worker not resident in the camp, but employed under the Government camp schemes, according to the answer which I received last week, will be paid 32/- a week as well. I endeavoured to call the attention of the Minister last week to the fact that this would mean a very substantial reduction in wages for local workers in County Kildare, and it may very well happen it may mean a substantial reduction in wages in other countries as well.
While I am concerned with the general aspect of the matter from the national point of view, I want to take this as it affects County Kildare, with which I am particularly familiar. Last year the workers in County Kildare were able to get wages of 8/- to 10/- per day as sleansmen, and 6/- to 7/- per day as wheelers, and that rate of wages was paid by the county council. Where the persons concerned were employed by private persons in the cutting of turf, there was often no distinction in the payment as between the sleansmen and the wheelers. A result of that was that, for work as sleansmen 48/- a week was paid, and for work as wheelers 36/- to 42/- a week was paid. Rates equal to those, or higher than those, were paid by persons who engaged workers for the cutting of turf privately. Therefore, it looks as if the Government scheme, so far as it affects the County Kildare this year, is very likely to result in a substantial reduction of wages for workers employed in the Government camp scheme.
It may well be that the Government have in mind some proposal by which private persons may not be able to engage local turf cutters, except under conditions which will force down the rate of wages for those privately employed turf cutters, or prevent them from obtaining a full week's work when privately employed in the cutting of turf. I think it is a retrogressive policy to force down wages at any time. To reduce wages to a level of 32/- a week for the cutting of turf—a strenuous and skilful occupation—is to do something which I am satisfied will produce intense dissatisfaction and will not result in the production of turf on the scale which is so vitally necessary at the present time.
Strikes have already taken place in certain counties over this matter, and I am perfectly satisfied that further strikes will take place, if efforts are made to induce men to work for that low rate of wages. I am further satisfied that even if there are not strikes there will be a feeling of dissatisfaction, and a sense of grievance, which will militate against the production of turf on as satisfactory a scale as everyone would desire. At this stage my anxiety is to ensure, before tempers get frayed, and before the issue is knit, that there should be a national conference on wages between the Parliamentary Secretary's Department, the Turf Board and the representatives of the workers.
It is better to start by endeavouring to get goodwill and co-operation. Further, I say that every effort should be made to arrange a conference at which the whole question of wages will be discussed from the standpoint, that the State on its part wants to pay a reasonable rate of wages to men engaged in a strenuous task, under conditions which are by no means ideal, and, on the other hand, that the workers, in recognition of the payment of decent wages, will co-operate by producing the maximum quantity of turf. I do not think the Parliamentary Secretary can quarrel with an effort to find a wage level with these two objects in view.
I am raising the matter now in the hope that the Parliamentary Secretary will see the advantage of having consultation with the workers' representatives, and endeavouring to fix a rate of wages which will give satisfaction to the workers and ensure the maximum production of turf. I am satisfied that the Parliamentary Secretary will learn, if he insists on a wage of 32/-, that turf will not be produced at 32/-, if the workers can get emigration visas or any other type of employment. The Parliamentary Secretary endeavoured to explain to-day why workers from Donegal left Newbridge. I do not accept 30 as the total number that left. If the Parliamentary Secretary has a check made I think he will discover that his information is out of date.