That is about as much as I can say for the Bill; I think the position is somewhat better than I found it, but it is not as good as I would like to see it. I think the bona fide traffic, so called, has been a farce for a number of years. I gave way to a demand from all sides of the House, and I am puzzled to know what Deputy Cogan was talking about. Surely to goodness the voice of the people, if expressed anywhere, is expressed here, and I found on all sides of the House that my proposal was not acceptable. I hoped anyway, when I found that there must be some bona fide traffic, that they might have agreed to 11 o'clock. I was disappointed that that was not accepted. However, I am satisfied that the 12 o'clock closing makes the position very much better than it was before. From now on, there cannot be any doubt that a man commits an offence by being on a licensed premises during prohibited hours. In regard to the question of proving whether a man was a traveller or not, I may say that it simply could not be done. If a man said he was out for business or pleasure, it was almost impossible for any Guard or any publican to prove that he was not. That meant that when the public houses closed in one area, a man could simply go out and walk, or cycle, or motor the required three or five miles, as the case may be, and drink there for the round of the clock. That cannot happen now, and to that extent I am satisfied that the Bill effects a huge improvement.
I was asked by Deputy Cogan what demand there was for the Bill. There was no demand from the publicans, or, if there was, I did not bother about it. I did not bother about the publicans, and I did not bother about the assistants either. As was pointed out at some stage of the debate, this is a catering trade. We do not bother about busmen grumbling about being out until 12 o'clock, because the public must be given reasonable facilities, and in a catering trade you must have those, if you like, unsuitable hours for the workers. Those workers have a limited working week now anyway, and they need not work any longer. As far as that is concerned, there is nothing to grumble about. I agree that it is not nice to have to work until 7 o'clock in the evening on a Sunday, and if I could have got agreement to reduce the hours for bona fide trading I would have fixed the closing hour for county boroughs on Sundays at 5 o'clock. When that was not accepted I was determined to lower the gap between the closing in the city areas and in the country. That is why I insisted on 7 o'clock. With regard to the 1 o'clock to 2 o'clock arrangement, I tried to meet the county boroughs which wanted 1 o'clock. In Dublin, I think, on the whole I interpreted the wish of the Dáil on this matter. All I was determined on was to lower the gap as much as possible. I have done that.
I think I should say here that certain people who have been using the Press and sending resolutions to Deputies about what has been done, stating that extra facilities have been given for drinking, seem to have ignored the big fact that we can now most effectively deal with people drinking after midnight. That cannot happen any more. All those people were under the impression that we were giving extra facilities on St. Patrick's Day. What was really done there was practically nothing at all. It was also stated in the Irish Times that I was abolishing the greatest and most desirable reform which has been introduced into the licensing code by the late Minister for Justice—the split hour. There was no foundation whatever for that, but I found people who should have known better coming to me and protesting against it, or actually writing to me and saying that it was a shame to do any such thing. There is nothing whatever of that kind in the Bill.
I am saying this now in the hope that the papers may draw attention to the fact that that has not been done. I also want to take this opportunity of saying that, in my opinion—although I am not as well pleased with the Bill as I would have been if I had got the Bill I introduced—the Bill effects a definite improvement. The biggest improvement of all is that there will now be no difficulty in proving that a person who is caught in a public house after 12 o'clock, between the hours of 12 and 6, has committed an offence. With regard to the suggestion that the effects of the Bill are confined to Dublin, I intervened several times to say that it was not Dublin alone with which I was dealing. We all know what happens in country places. We know that where there is a dance in a village or small town, say, on a Sunday, as soon as midnight comes the public houses open and remain open all night, so the people leave the dance hall and remain drinking for hours. That cannot happen in future.
I will wind up by appealing to the district justices to take a very serious view of any breaches of the licensing law when this Bill is finally passed. Deputy Belton mentioned the matter of penalties, but, as the Deputy knows, that is not a question for the Minister; it is one for the district justices. It is for them to say what fine they will impose. They try the case, and it is not for me to tell them how they should handle it, but I do hope that they will deal very stringently indeed with anyone found on licensed premises during prohibited hours, and with publicans who allow people to drink on their premises during those hours. I do not think the Guards will have any excuse for not enforcing the law from this time onwards. Up to this, they had genuine difficulty in proving their case. Now there will not be any difficulty, so I think we may look forward to a proper enforcement of the licensing law, and I think the position will be much better than it was.
On the question raised by Deputy Linehan about Sunday opening, probably a Minister will come along, with more courage than I have, who will face up to it. I cannot explain why the discrimination was there between town and country. I found it there, but I did not think it was up to me to justify it. I found it working well. I only set out to deal with abuses. On the whole, I think the licensing laws were working well, except for the bona fide abuses. Therefore, I am well satisfied, on the whole, that if the Bill goes through the Seanad as it is now, the position in the licensed trade will be much better than it is at present.