asked the Minister for Supplies whether his attention has been drawn to a notice issued to milk consumers by the Skibbereen, County Cork, Milk Vendors' Association to the effect that, as from October 3rd, the price of milk in Skibbereen will be increased to 3½d. per pint to comply with Government regulations, and that the new price will remain in force unless otherwise altered by Government Order; whether he has issued any such Order; and what action he proposes to take on this matter, including the severely increased milk prices in Skibbereen.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Increased Milk Prices.
My attention had not previously been drawn to the notice issued by the Skibbereeen Milk Vendors' Association to the effect that the price of milk in Skibbereen would be increased to 3½d. per pint as from the 3rd October. The price of 3½d. per pint is, however, in conformity with the Milk (Retail Price) Orders made by me which include the Skibbereen area. It is provided in these Orders that the price of 3½d. per pint, which is a maximum price, not a minimum or fixed price, will operate during the winter period of 1943-44.
Is the Minister aware that there is great public discontent not only in this area but in several other places because of the misrepresentation of this Maximum Price Order and the very considerable jump in milk prices which has arisen accordingly? Having regard to the fact that this meant in very many rural areas an increase of 1½d. per pint for milk, would he consider making some special inquiries or taking some special steps to see that if an increase in price occurs in the rural areas it has some relation to the corresponding increase in other areas?
The position was fully investigated before the price was fixed. The Deputy understands that the price of milk is usually dearer in winter than in summer. The increase which has taken place is mainly a seasonal increase. It is true that the seasonal increase this year took place a month earlier than last year, but the actual increase over last year is nothing as large as the Deputy suggests. A maximum price is fixed for milk sold retail in all parts of the county. There is a different price for Dublin and some other districts from that in rural areas. That price is fixed upon the basis of the known costs of production, and has relation to the measures taken by the Minister for Agriculture to regulate the price received by the producers of milk. While the price fixed is a maximum one, it is intended to give only a reasonable profit to the distributors. In some districts it may be possible to sell milk at a reasonable profit at less than the maximum price. As the House knows, the price of milk in normal times was not uniform throughout the rural districts. The suggestion conveyed in the statement alleged to be made by the Skibbereen Milk Vendors' Association, that they were required by a Government Order to increase the price of milk, is unfounded. All the Government have done is to fix a price beyond which they cannot charge.
In view of the misrepresentation for the purpose of putting a considerable increase on the milk consumers there, which is causing very considerable discontent, and as this has happened in other areas also, will the Minister, having regard to the circumstances in the rural areas, and the wages and conditions generally in the small towns, consider looking into this matter again?
All the circumstances were taken into account in so far as it was possible to do so. The costs of production were fully estimated before the price was fixed, and I do not think further inquiry will result in an alteration in the price.
In view of the fact that certain vendors who have not joined in this demand for an increased price have no hesitation in saying that the price they were formerly receiving would pay them well in present circumstances, does the Minister not think that that would be an argument in favour of examining the whole matter again?
If that argument is adopted, we abandon the attempt to try to fix a national maximum price. A national maximum price must obviously take into account the circumstances in all areas. It may permit of a higher margin than would be regarded as normal in some districts, but for the purpose of enforcement it is necessary to have a maximum price. It would be impracticable to have prices varying from district to district. Unless we can fix a price which could be made known to the public generally as the price beyond which milk must not be sold in the districts, enforcement becomes much more difficult.
Having regard to the fact that, in certain towns, the standard wage increases are very limited, according to the size of the towns, and that bonuses are not permitted beyond a certain figure, does not the Minister think that people in these towns should be in a different position in regard to milk prices from people in other areas where, even within the restricted limits of the Emergency Powers Order, higher wages are given?
I think it will be agreed that the price of milk must be fixed in relation to the cost of producing it.
With some regard, I hope, to the means of the people who purchase the milk and within the wages available to them.
It will be obvious that if we fix a price which is unremunerative milk will not be produced. That is the dilemma which arises when questions of price control are under consideration. The primary consideration is to get a supply, and to get a supply there must be a price which will induce producers to continue in production. We can, by Order, fix any price, but the net result of fixing an unremunerative price is to dry up the supply altogether.
Does not the Minister, having regard to the fact that the Order has been misrepresented and availed of for the purpose of enforcing this price, think the matter should be reconsidered?
We have taken the responsibility of fixing a maximum price.
There was not a word about an increase before the Order, which has been availed of for the purpose of enforcing this price.
There is always an increase in the retail price of milk at this time every year.