asked the Minister for Supplies whether, in view of the proposed transport legislation shortly to come before the Dáil, he will lay on the Table of the House a report on the results of the operations of the scheme of the road services in the areas where the Great Southern Railways have a monopoly, and (a) if he will state the amount of petrol issued in each area before and after the monopoly, (b) the number of persons employed in transport services before and after the monopoly, and (c) the number of lorries in use before and after the monopoly.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Great Southern Railways Road-Transport Service.
The Deputy appears to be under a misapprehension. The Great Southern Railways Company has not been granted a monopoly of transport in any area. A scheme of transport based on the vehicles owned by the public transport companies, licensed hauliers, exempt area hauliers, certain essential vehicle users engaged on services not suitable for operation by scheduled transport services, together with vehicles operated on gas producer plants, has been organised and is in operation in certain areas. The operation of this scheme is designed not so much to effect reductions in the consumption of petrol and other supplies required for road transport as to make the best use of the available supplies in the provision of road transport facilities. In emergency conditions, the scheduled road services fill other important functions in addition to the conservation of fuel and tyres. They provide a regular system of road transport which is capable of immediate adjustment to meet any worsening of the supplies position; they provide regular services which are equally available to all users; they ensure the equitable distribution of foodstuffs and other essential goods even to the remotest areas, where, following the reduction in petrol supplies, and prior to the introduction of scheduled services, the reduction in transport facilities was at least partially responsible for creating a serious distribution problem. The scheme at present extends only to part of the country, and its extension into other areas is proceeding.
As I have stated on previous occasions, the present scheme of reorganisation of road transport on the basis indicated was initiated to provide for the special conditions arising out of the emergency, and has no relation to forthcoming transport legislation. I do not consider that a report on the lines suggested by the Deputy would assist the House in considering permanent transport legislation.
With regard to (a) of the Deputy's question, the Deputy does not indicate the periods for which the information is required and I am, accordingly, unable to deal with this part of the question. With regard to (b), in the absence of definite information as to services included by the Deputy under the head of "transport services" I am unable to furnish the information requested.
With regard to (c), the total number of commercial goods vehicles now in use in the present controlled area is 723. The number in use prior to the introduction of scheduled services was 1,233.
If the question were phrased in more definite language, would the Minister be able to give an answer? Are the returns available for a specified period, if I set out the period?
I think so. It is somewhat difficult to compare the consumption of petrol in one area at one period with that of another period. Transport requirements fluctuate seasonally, and, while a useful comparison might be made as between one year and another, any conclusions arrived at from a comparison of the circumstances of a lesser period against another period in the same year might be very misleading. If the Deputy tables a question relating to a specific period, I will give him whatever information is available.
Is it not right to say that a bulk allocation is made to the Great Southern Railways Company and not an allocation for any particular area?
That is true, but I can give particulars of the use of petrol in the controlled area.
When does the Minister propose to give members of the House information as to what he is aiming at in this scheme? The trouble at the moment is that there seems to be a scheme which applies to certain areas, to parts of certain counties, and which nobody, so far as I can find out, except perhaps the Minister, understands.
I will try to explain it now. It is a scheme to provide by means of scheduled services available to all members of the public the best transport facilities which can be made available in present circumstances.
Is the Minister aware that in certain areas where the scheme is in operation it has had the very opposite effect on the road transport services available to the people?
No.
That is so. There is no question about it.
The bringing into operation of the scheme means an extension of the public road transport services which are thenceforth operated in accordance with a published schedule known to all people residing in the area.
That may be the intention, but it is not the result.
Is it the Minister's intention to continue extending the scheme to other areas?
Certainly. I hope we do not have to extend it more rapidly than I originally planned.
Does the Minister not consider from the experience he has already gathered that the information would be useful, in view of the impending legislation?
The point I want to make quite clear is that it has nothing whatever to do with impending legislation. I have already stated that the legislation contemplated by the Government does not involve any restriction in normal times on the private transport of goods or passengers. The restrictions which are being imposed now are emergency restrictions only.
Does the Minister realise that the Great Southern Railways Company in a lot of cases are merely commission agents? They are commissioning lorries owned by an individual firm to carry out work done by that firm in the past, and are making a profit where they are not entitled to get any.
In a few cases temporary arrangements of that kind have had to be made in order to get the scheme working, but those arrangements will disappear, and are disappearing.
Does the Minister approve of that?
It is only a temporary device.
Does the Minister approve?
I approve of everything done in connection with the whole scheme.
asked the Minister for Supplies if he will state (a) the total number of motor lorries now in service for the Great Southern Railways Company, Limited; (b) the number of these lorries fitted with gas producer plants; (c) the amount of petrol per month allowed for all vehicles to the company, and (d) the amount of petrol per lorry per month allowed for priming purposes in respect of the lorries fitted with gas producer plants.
(a) The total number of motor lorries now in service for the Great Southern Railways Company, Limited, is 600; (b) the number of these lorries fitted with gas-producer plants is 43; (c) the amount of petrol allowed for all vehicles to the company varies from month to month. The allowance granted for the month of January, however, was 195,550 gallons: (d) a priming allowance as such is not granted to owners of motor vehicles which are otherwise in receipt of a petrol allowance for use in such vehicles. The question of a priming allowance for gas-producer vehicles operated by the Great Southern Railways Company does not, therefore, arise.
Is it not a fact that two gallons per month is the amount allowed to a lorry for priming purposes?
An allowance of two gallons is allowed for priming purposes where a lorry is not otherwise entitled to a petrol allowance. If the lorry is entitled to a petrol allowance in any event then it does not get, in addition to that allowance, a priming allowance, even if fitted with gas producing plant.
The Minister ought to be aware that the net result of that position is that people trying to carry on their business with gas producer plants, who are allowed two gallons a month, are not capable of doing more than two days' work in a week. Lorries have been stranded on the roads, and people have tried to get petrol from other sources to help them to get back to their bases. The Department has been invited to prosecute, and in some instances has failed to do so, possibly because it wants to avoid exposure in the courts. There is complete dislocation, because of the hopeless inadequacy of the allowance of two gallons of petrol.
Two gallons of petrol for priming purposes is the most we can allow to lorries regarded as not essential. If they are essential from a community point of view, they get a petrol allowance as well. If they are not essential, and are fitted with gas producer plant, they get two gallons, and that is all. I doubt very much if there was any case where the Department of Industry and Commerce or the Department of Supplies failed to prosecute when there was sufficient evidence. That is not our reputation, I think.
We asked for a prosecution last week, and all particulars were supplied.
Give us time. We have a thousand cases on at the moment.