I do not know what scholarships Deputy Allen refers to. I have no official knowledge of any scheme in Wexford. I do not even know whether the scheme is under the agricultural committee or not. There is no scheme as is generally contemplated for scholarships to secondary or vocational schools. The Wexford Council apparently has not thought fit to consult the Department on the matter, and we will leave it at that. I should like to say to Deputy L. Cosgrave that I hope he will not take my remarks as being intended to suggest that he wished to have any discrimination in this matter, but I omitted to explain to him, in connection with Section 5, that the section deals with specific matters of educational importance, first, the question of the tests to be applied, and secondly, the question of the age limits.
This section has been put in so that it will be made clear that, while, under Section 4, certain conditions and so on may be laid down in regard to schemes, under Section 5 there are two specific matters in regard to which I think the Minister, by virtue of his position, ought not alone to be the final authority in regard to the schemes generally but ought to be in a position to advise the councils in advance as to what his requirements are.
With regard to the tests, it has always been the procedure that the examination tests were carried out by either officers of the Department of Education or persons appointed by the Department. With regard to the age limits, it seems to me that this is a matter in respect of which the Minister for Education can fairly claim to say in advance what he thinks they ought to be, having regard to the general age at which children enter secondary and vocational schools and so on, so that if I were to accept Deputy L. Cosgrave's amendment, it would be in regard to consultation on these two matters, which I think he will admit, having heard what I have said, are of a specifically educational nature.
You will forgive me, Sir, for going back on it, but I should have mentioned, in reply to Deputy Larkin, that under paragraph (e) of Section 4, with regard to the point raised by Deputy A. Byrne, as to parents who are slightly over the limit of means, an exception may be made. Supposing the limit is £200 and a parent with an income of £200 has a child who gets a scholarship. It might be considered by a council that that brought the income of the family up to £240, and that it was unfair in these circumstances that a child of a parent with an income, say, of £210—although technically outside the limit laid down in the conditions of the scheme, but having perhaps a fairly large family—might not be entitled to enter for a scholarship. That is a matter upon which I would hesitate to lay down any principle. It was raised by Deputy A. Byrne, who had in mind certain cases in Dublin. The object is to enable councils like the Dublin Corporation, if they so wish, owing to some special circumstances which we cannot foresee, even though a parent might be slightly outside the limit, to go outside their own published conditions. The matter could then be considered when it came up in a formal way, but obviously it would be a very serious thing, and only in very exceptional circumstances would one care to contemplate departure from the published conditions. I should like to assure Deputy Larkin and Deputy A. Byrne that there is provision by which a council might submit a special proposal of that nature if it wished.