I move:—
That a sum, not exceeding £580,000, be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1945, for Agricultural Produce Subsidies, etc.
Committee on Finance. - Vote 30—Agricultural Produce Subsidies.
I presume that any Estimate which is passed to-night can, of course, again be discussed on the Appropriation Bill?
That is so. It will be open to any Deputy, if the Estimates are to be hurried through here to-night, to withhold his remarks at this particular time and to address himself to the particular Estimate on the Appropriation Bill.
Is it correct to say that these subsidies are mainly dairying?
They are altogether dairying.
There is one matter to which I want to direct the Minister's attention and it is this: I understand the rates of subsidies now are not infrequently changed by Order made under the Emergency Powers Act, or that they can be so changed, but cases have arisen—I am not sure whether they have arisen during this financial year or not; the Minister will be able to tell us; or whether it is the intention to permit them to arise in the course of the current financial year— where the rate of subsidy has been altered from time to time by order of an officer of his Department, sometimes with, and sometimes without, the consent of the Department of Finance, without making the necessary statutory amending Order.
I should like to know if the Minister's attention has been drawn to the incidence of such events in the past and whether he is prepared to assure the House that in future, if there is to be any variation in the rates of subsidies or of bounties paid, the appropriate Order will be made, so that the attention of Dáil Eireann will be directed to the fact that the current rate of bounty or subsidy is being altered, and that such alterations will not be made without some instrument of that kind being brought under the attention of the Dáil.
Before the Minister replies will he give us some information as to the amount of subsidy now and the rate of subsidy for the summer period; and will he tell us what sum of money arising out of the levy goes into the common pool out of which a subsidy is made available?
The present subsidies, of course, are not payable under the Dairy Produce (Price Stabilisation) Act and I think Deputy Dillon is raising the matter that Orders were necessary under the Dairy Produce (Price Stabilisation) Act in connection with every Order altering the subsidy or the levy. But at the present time subsidies are payable as ex gratia grants and I do not think any Order is necessary because there is no condition whatever, or no levy. I may be wrong—I will look up the matter to make sure—but I think no Order is necessary for the payment of subsidies under this Vote but, in any case, there will no alteration without consultation with the Department of Finance. The approval of the Minister for Finance will be necessary before any alteration could be made. With regard to Deputy Hughes's question, as I explained in my concluding statement on the Agricultural Estimate, the creameries will be paying about 2/0½d. for the quantity of milk that will make a lb. of butter and they will sell the butter to the wholesaler at in or about the same price, so that the cost of manufacture and of carriage must be met by way of subsidy.
What is the production subsidy?
It is not exactly decided yet. I was looking up the figures to-day. It must be decided within the next few days. I think it will be in or about 30/-. The present rate will be higher because they are making butter from milk costing 1/- a gallon and that would mean that the present subsidy must be in the region of about 60/-.
The Minister has not given us information on the other point. Does not the amount arising from the levy go into the common pool?
The only levy that was raised on butter for some time past was the amount that was raised on butter in stock, when the price went up from 2/- to 2/4, which yielded something like £180,000.
Does not that go into the pool?
Yes.
Mr. A. Byrne
Would the Minister say whether this subsidy will lead to an increase in the butter ration? Is there any likelihood of any increase in the butter ration?
As I mentioned when introducing the Estimate for Agriculture, the intention is to continue the present ration until we feel that we have enough butter stored to make a half-pound ration next winter. I could not say at the moment when it will be possible to start the half-pound ration, but I think it will not be until the end of the year.
Vote put and agreed to.