Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 21 Feb 1945

Vol. 96 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Vote 36—Circuit Court.

Minister for Justice (Mr. Boland)

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £4,681 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1945, for the Salaries, Allowances and Expenses of Circuit Court Officers, Deputy Circuit Judges and Under Sheriffs; the Travelling Expenses of Circuit Judges; and the Expenses of Revision of Voters and Jurors Lists (No. 27 of 1926, etc.).

This additional money is required under four main heads. The first is the increase in cost-of-living bonus from the 1st January last. It amounts to about £1,000. The second head relates to the salaries of the staff carrying out the duties of under-sheriffs in counties where the under-sheriff has died or retired during the year 1944. I think that applies to Dublin City and to County Wicklow. That accounts for about £1,200. The third head is the appointment of temporary additional Circuit Court judges to a considerably greater extent than was provided for in the original Estimate. The additional cost is about £1,700. The original Estimate was about £600. The fourth head is a fall of about £1,000 in receipts for executing court orders and Land Commission warrants. These four headings amount to about £5,000. There is a net saving of about £300, so that the deficiency to be provided for in this Estimate is £4,681.

Mr. Costello

Would the Minister say if portion of the Estimate required under the heading of additional expenses has arisen because of the fact that the Dublin under-sheriff has resigned?

Mr. Boland

Yes.

Mr. Costello

Can the Minister indicate what arrangement he has made for carrying on the position of under-sheriff pending the making of a permanent appointment?

Mr. Boland

The county registrar is doing the work pending the passing of a Court Officers Bill which is in course of preparation.

Mr. Costello

The unfortunate county registrar in Dublin is supposed to carry on that work without getting any additional remuneration. Will some of this money be allocated to him?

Mr. Boland

The provision in this Supplementary Estimate deals with the staff. The position in regard to the county registrar himself has not yet been settled, and I am not able to tell the Deputy what it is. This money is for the payment of extra staff to do the work.

Mr. Costello

It is very helpful, of course, for the county registrar to get extra staff, but it would be very stimulating for him if he got some little extra remuneration for himself.

Mr. Boland

That can be considered.

Mr. Costello

Will the Minister say——

Mr. Boland

I cannot say, but I will see what can be done about it.

Mr. Moran

In connection with certain Circuit Court staffs, I would like to know from the Minister whether they have been established. A number of them throughout the country, although they have had many years' service, are still on a kind of temporary basis. I would like to know if anything can be done to let those people know what their position is. I think it is very unfair that they should not be dealt with. As regards county registrars, it would appear to be the practice now to make them general pooh-bahs, to have all kinds of extra duties shoved on to them. Under the present system they have become sheriffs, probate officers and examiners, and, as far as I know, they receive no extra remuneration for all this work. Their positions are very responsible. I put it to the Minister that this is a matter he should consider and say whether it will be dealt with in the new Courts of Justice Bill.

Mr. Costello

There is another matter on which I would like to get some information from the Minister. I understood from him that portion of this additional Estimate is required to meet the expenses of temporary circuit judges. Has the Minister any idea when the policy of appointing permanent-temporary circuit judges is going to cease? I think he will probably agree that it is not appropriate that there should be temporary judges appointed for very long periods unless there is some very pressing necessity for it. If there is any great necessity for it, then there ought to be a very good case for appointing permanent judges. It must be obvious that the position of temporary circuit judges is on the border-line of being unconstitutional. It is very bad from the point of view of public confidence that a man should be in the position of a judge, and at the same time be on such a tenure that his services can be dispensed with at practically a moment's notice. This question of temporary judges is one that I shall have something to say on when the Estimate for the Minister's Department comes before the Dáil later. At the moment, I am anxious to know from him if he has any information as to when it will be possible to bring to some finality the policy of appointing these permanent-temporary circuit judges.

Mr. Coogan

Will the Minister say whether the appointment of temporary judges will, to any extent, relieve the congestion which is apparent in the Circuit Courts, particularly in Dublin? I understand that a number of men have been returned for trial, some as far back as two years ago. I think that it is most undesirable and, indeed, contrary to the spirit of the law that a man returned for trial should be kept awaiting his trial so long. Justice should be speeded up. Apart from that aspect of the matter, I understand that in certain cases the failure to try certain individuals is making the work of the police in Dublin more difficult. I also understand that there is a certain amount of congestion in the Circuit Courts in the West, particularly in County Mayo. Perhaps the Minister will indicate whether the steps he is taking now will relieve the congestion in the Circuit Courts in the West as well as in Dublin.

Mr. Costello

Arising out of what Deputy Coogan has said, I would like to emphasise the fact that there is a number of people at the moment who have been awaiting trial for at least two years. I myself am engaged in a case in which a man has been awaiting trial for two years. I suggest to the Minister that he ought to consult with the Attorney-General, and that in any case where a person has been awaiting trial for two years the appropriate thing to do would be to enter a nolle prosequi. If a man has been in suspense for two years, no matter what offence he has committed, I think he has been sufficiently punished. If the arrears in the courts are so great that a man cannot be tried within a period of 12 months, I think that a nolle prosequi should be entered. If that were done, it would possibly help more to clear off the arrears in Dublin than this system of appointing temporary judges, which is all wrong and contrary to justice, or very nearly contrary to justice. It is, as I have said, certainly on the border-line of being unconstitutional. I think that if the Minister and the Attorney-General were to say that the best way to clear off these arrears was that any person awaiting trial on a criminal charge should be given the benefit of having a nolle prosequi entered in his case, it would, I think, be the best way of clearing off the arrears, and not merely that, but the best way of keeping down the commission of crime in the future.

Mr. Boland

On the question raised by Deputy Costello, I agree that it is undesirable to have temporary judges. I hope that the volume of crime that has now to be dealt with will decrease. The Deputy is aware that we have not the power to appoint permanently another Circuit Court judge. It would require a Bill to do that. We have the maximum number of permanent Circuit Court judges allowed by law. I am sure Deputy Costello will agree that one of the reasons for the arrears is the big increase in the number of appeals to be heard. The courts have now to deal with a far greater number of appeals than they had hitherto. The position is that the hearing of some of these appeals takes a very long time. Some of them have taken as long as ten days. It is because of the large amount of arrears that has arisen in that way, that we have had to appoint temporary judges. If we had not made these temporary appointments, the arrears would be still greater unless we were to introduce a special Bill to make provision for the appointment of another permanent circuit judge. I agree that it is most undesirable to have either temporary circuit judges or temporary district justices. Before an extra permanent judge could be appointed, I would have to persuade the Minister for Finance that the appointment was necessary. I would probably be told that these were abnormal times, and that when the war was over we would get back to normal. In that hope, we have continued to make only temporary appointments.

Regarding the position in Mayo, I have heard some complaints and am inquiring into the matter, to find out the reason for the complaints. I can say no more on that at the moment.

With regard to the officers of the Circuit Courts, there were proposals to deal with them, but the discussion has not been finished yet. There is a question between the two Departments which has not been fixed up yet, so I cannot make any statement as to what the position is. I think that, while the emergency is on, it will not be easy to do so, but I have the matter under consideration.

Vote put and agreed to.