asked the Minister for Justice if he will state, with regard to two German internees recently recaptured in County Galway who had escaped from lawful custody, and who were at large for some weeks before being recaptured: (1) from what custody these men escaped; (2) where and under what circumstances they were ultimately restored to lawful custody; and if he can now state (a) where they were when at large, and (b) where they are now.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - German Internees.
There was no actual escape from custody in this case. The men had been living in lodgings in Dublin, on parole. They were directed by the military authorities to report themselves, for repatriation, on 10th August last. They did not comply with that direction, and were discovered by the Gárdai at a house in County Galway on 25th September. They were handed over to the military authorities at Arbour Hill Barracks, Dublin, on 26th September. They have been repatriated.
Arising out of the Minister's reply, are not persons on parole —technically in custody—permitted certain privileges on their undertaking to conform to certain conditions? Am I to understand from the tenor of the Minister's reply that the harbouring of such persons without notification to the competent authorities is a course of conduct which commends itself to him?
Mr. Boland
The Deputy is to understand no such thing. It does not commend itself to me. I have answered the Deputy's question; I have told the Deputy what the position is—that actually they had not been in custody for 12 months. They were on parole and they were told to report for repatriation. They did not do so, and that is all. They were discovered and they have been sent back to Germany.
Are we to understand from the Minister that persons who harbour individuals, technically or otherwise in custody, and not complying with the terms of their parole, or the legitimate conditions involved, are doing something which calls for no rebuke or condemnation from the Minister for Justice? Is it a proper course of conduct?
Mr. Boland
I am not saying it is a proper course of conduct.
Why does the Minister deliberately eschew any reference to the harbouring of these persons by those well, knowing that the Minister sought them and was unable to locate them, and will he say how it came about that the servants of his Department were unable to inform him where those two men were when, in fact, they were resident in a house in County Galway? Was there any concealment or any conspiracy between the forces of the law and the persons who harboured them to withhold that information from the Minister?
Mr. Boland
All I can say is that the Gárda were looking for those people from the moment they failed to comply with the order to report. The circumstances in this case are, I think, different from what they would be, I would say, in the case of a person ordinarily escaping from custody. It was at the very end of their period of internment and, although I would not care to have it taken as a precedent, my own personal feeling is that, in the circumstances, there was no necessity in this case to prosecute anybody.
Then we are to take it in future——
Mr. Boland
The Deputy can take it any way he likes.
Are we to take it in future that if persons are being sought for by the Gárda and individual citizens of the State think that the Gárda are ill-advised in searching for them, these individuals are to harbour those persons and frustrate the efforts of the Gárda until such time as these particular persons are convinced that the Commissioner and the Minister are right in the course they are pursuing?
Mr. Boland
The moment these people were discovered they were arrested and deported.
But individuals in the State are in the future to determine whether the Gárda are properly or improperly looking for anybody and, if they think they are doing so improperly, they may think it right to frustrate the Gárda?
I think the Minister should examine his conscience in order to find out what other people should have been interned during the war.
Name him.
He himself knows who it is.
He should have been shot.
The Minister will examine his conscience well.
Maybe he will, after the result of the South Mayo election.
We are shaking at the very foundations—trembling.