asked the Minister for Local Government and Public Health if he will state the reasons underlying the regulation issued by him forbidding officials of local authorities from approaching members of the Oireachtas in relation to the conditions of their employment; and whether, having regard to the fact that this constitutes a deprivation of freedom of action for such officials in the exercise of their ordinary civil rights, and also hinders the elected representatives of the people from discharging their public duties, he will withdraw the regulation.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Local Authorities' Officials and Oireachtas Members.
The County Management Act specifically reserved to managers for local authorities the control of the staffs of local authorities and debarred members of authorities, with which managers are associated, from interfering with the managers' functions in relation to the staff. The effective control of staff includes the power of assigning, with the sanction of the Minister, the remuneration, duties and conditions of service of such officers and servants as are for the time being in the employment of the local authority concerned. If it is proposed to vary these in any way the manager concerned must take public responsibility for the variation. Where the managers or local authorities concerned have been unwilling or unable to accede to demands put forward by particular officers, or groups of officers, there has been an increasing tendency to approach members of the Oireachtas, particularly members of the Dáil, to induce them to bring their personal influence to bear on the Minister so as to persuade him to bring pressure on the manager concerned to vary conditions of service in particular cases. There is also a tendency to ask for assurances to county managers that in the event of particular proposals being submitted by them to the Minister they will be favourably considered, that is to say, to ensure that instead of being dealt with impersonally on their merits they will be approved of on personal and not on public grounds. These developments are clearly contrary to the spirit of the managerial system. Members of local authorities are, as I have indicated, debarred by statute from interfering with the manager in the control of staff. Managers, on the other hand, are bound by their statutory obligations to carry clear and undivided responsibility for that control. An attempt on the part of public men to use their position as members of the Oireachtas for the purpose of influencing the Minister either in his consideration of proposals submitted to him by the manager in relation to staff, or to induce the manager to make staff proposals which he otherwise would not make, is clearly quite inconsistent with the doctrine of managerial responsibility and with the maintenance of the statute bar on members of a local authority acting in this way. The Deputy in putting this question is acting as a member of the national legislative Assembly which has by law determined that, as a member of a local authority, he would be debarred from interfering in the exercise of these particular functions. In my view it is inconceivable that where members of the local authorities are debarred, persons in other capacities should have the right to interfere. In view of this I trust that, whatever he may consider his public duties to be, the Deputy does not suggest that I should connive at his disregarding the spirit and the letter of a statute for the administration and enforcement of which I am responsible.
Under the Local Government Act, 1941, any officer aggrieved by the action of a manager has a right of appeal to the Minister. All such appeals are considered by me in a judicial manner and decided on their merits. If a local officer is not content with a right of appeal which has been given to him by that statute and which he did not possess before it came into operation, and tries by private representations to influence the Minister in his favour, then it must be assumed that he either believes his case will not get reasonable consideration or that with influence to aid him he will obtain a more favourable consideration than the merits of his case warrant. I would remind the Deputy that in 1923 and again in 1932 civil servants were reminded of the regulations forbidding them to make applications for personal concessions in their favour except through the heads of their Departments. These prohibitions aimed at the same practice as the circular letter of last July and have not been regarded as a hindrance to public representatives in the discharge of their public duties. There is no reason why officers of local authorities should be put in a privileged position in this regard. I have only to say that if the Deputy acts in the spirit of his letter to the Press of the 14th August, 1945, and ventures to address private representations on behalf of any officer, his efforts will not help the officer concerned but will be regarded as an improper attempt on the part of the officer to influence me in the discharge of my duty.
Heil, heil, heil.
Could the Minister say if an employee of a local authority approaches a Deputy or a county councillor for a reference and the Deputy or the county councillor, as the case may be, gives the reference, is that contrary to the regulations laid down by the Department?
That is quite a separate question. This did not refer to references.
Will the Minister say does that apply to road workers in South Tipperary and does it mean that, if the road workers in South Tipperary appeal to Deputies, as they have done, and to their county council, to see that they are paid more than 40/- a week to keep their families, the road workers will be, either individually or collectively, dismissed from their employment?
That is an absurd supplementary question. The road workers are quite entitled to make any representations they may wish, through the proper channel, which, in this case, is the person who is responsible under the statute for their control and administration, that is, the county manager.
Does the Minister suggest that they have no authority and will not have his permission, subject to the danger of their being dismissed, to do anything but lie down under the decisions of the Minister made through the county manager?
The road workers have their own organisation and are quite competent and capable of looking after themselves. If, however, any Deputy has any quarrel with the policy of the Minister and the Government in relation to any particular matter, he can raise it here, but he cannot raise it on behalf of any particular officer.
Will the Minister say whether road workers in Tipperary or any other county must lie down under the decision of the Minister, conveyed through the manager of the county, and abstain completely from applying either to the representatives on the county council or to other public representatives to see that they are not kept down at a wage level upon which they cannot support their families?
That is a matter of general policy which the Deputy can raise in this House, but there is one thing I am determined to stop and that is the sort of back-stairs influence which was used in the Custom House freely when the Deputy was Minister for Local Government.