Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 6 Feb 1946

Vol. 99 No. 4

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 53—Forestry.

Minister for Lands (Mr. Moylan)

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1946, for Salaries and Expenses in connection with Forestry (9 & 10 Geo. 5, c. 58, and No. 34 of 1928), including certain Grants-in-Aid.

This Supplementary Estimate is concerned only with one sub-head of the Forestry Vote. It is a Token Estimate introduced solely to obtain the approval of the Dáil for the payment of an increased grant to University College, Dublin, in connection with forestry research.

Since 1942-1943 the university authorities have been engaged, at the request of my Department, in the pursuit of a detailed survey of insect pests injurious to forest trees. An expert, a graduate of the university, with special qualifications, chosen by the college authorities, has been employed fulltime on the work and has surveyed carefully not only State forest areas but also private woodlands throughout the Twenty-Six Counties. It was originally planned to complete the survey of both insect pests and fungi within a three-year period which expired last summer. The magnitude of the task, however, prevented completion of the insect survey within the three years and little more than a preliminary survey of fungi was practicable. A full report of the three years' work was made available to my Department some months ago through the university authorities and has been carefully studied by the Departmental experts concerned with forestry matters. They tell me that the survey, even in its present incomplete state, has proved well worth while. Additional and valuable information was obtained in regard to pests which were already known to represent a danger in Irish woodlands. Data were also obtained in regard to other pests, the prevalence of which to a dangerous extent was for the first time discovered, and attention was directed to the presence in this country of pests which have caused grave damage in other countries and which will require special control and preventive measures in the event of more widespread attacks in Irish forests.

It is proposed, subject to the approval of the Dáil, to continue the arrangement made with the university for a further period of two years, in order to permit of completion of the work in connection with insect pests and to provide for a detailed survey of injurious fungi.

The rate of annual grant to the university during the initial three-year survey was £200. The total cost to the State in respect of that three years amounts to only £600. It has been agreed between my Department and the university that the annual rate of grant should be increased to £300 during the further two years for which the survey will be continued and the Supplementary Estimate has been introduced for the purpose of obtaining the Dáil's approval for that course. A sum of £200 was provided for the grant in the original Vote for Forestry for this year. An additional sum of £134 is provided in the Supplementary Estimate, so that the total provision in the financial year will be £334. This sum comprises one instalment of £67 of the initial grant which should have been met out of the Vote for 1944-45 but which was not issued out of the Grant-in-Aid before the close of that year, the final instalment of £67 payable out of this year's Vote in respect of the original three years' grant and two instalments of £100 each in respect of the new grant.

Mr. Hughes

I think farmer-Deputies will fully appreciate the enormous damage that can be done by fungoid attacks on plants. Similarly, I am sure that if a particular fungus grows on trees there must be similar destruction there. Therefore, it is of vital importance that proper research should take place into the problems of fungoid attacks on our forests. The Minister told us that a survey, a preliminary survey I take it, has been made of State forests and private forests as well all over the country and that it has revealed a lot of very useful information. He did not inform the House as to the extent of that, nor did he tell us whether the moneys voted for the purpose have been spent altogether on the survey or not; whether it is necessary to experiment in order to find out how to control the attacks of these pests; or whether the control substances and treatment of fungi are known already to the experts at University College or to the technical experts in the Department. I think it is a very essential and vital work that the research workers were asked to perform. Of course, it would be unfortunate if we went to the expense of planting new forests and then allowed fungus to destroy the useful work of plantation.

When we are on the question of research, I should like to ask the Minister if there is any specific sum provided for other types of research, for instance, research as to the possibility of growing trees and producing wood, say, in bog areas where the Department have failed to establish timber up to this. I have read that experiments have been carried out by other countries as to the possibility of establishing timber on lands that were believed to be unsuitable and on lands where it was impossible to establish trees heretofore. In that respect, it is essential that sufficient money should be provided for research generally. This particular sum is provided for a specific purpose, to deal with the pest problem. But I feel that the amount of money and the facilities provided for research generally by the Department are not nearly sufficient. I know that it has been pointed out by the Minister and the Department that you want a reasonable degree of fertility in land in order to produce commercial timber. But I think it might be possible, even from a scenic point of view, to get land covered by timber that is not useful for any other purpose and where we have failed to establish timber up to the present. For that reason, I think the Minister might ask the House to vote a bigger sum of money in the future for research purposes. Facilities are available for experimental purposes at the Albert College and the National University for actual experiment on fungoid disease. I should like to ask if these experiments are carried on in the vicinity of the college or is the treatment carried on all over the country.

Mr. Moylan

The money asked for and the money which has been spent so far is entirely for research.

Mr. Hughes

For a specific purpose.

Mr. Moylan

It is not for the control of pests or for the control of fungi. The control of pests and fungi is the normal function of the Forestry Section.

Mr. Hughes

Then it is only to carry out the survey?

Mr. Moylan

The survey and the control are different things. We are looking for money to spend on research. We have been spending £200 a year on this research and we propose now to spend £300 a year, with the permission of the Dáil.

Mr. Hughes

The Minister says that the money is spent on research. I submit that both problems require research. To discover the incidence is a research problem and to discover the cure is a research problem.

Mr. Moylan

Quite so. In regard to the normal pests from which we suffer, the cure is known when the incidence of the pest is discovered. There are in the country some new pests—it even occurs in politics—but they are not unknown, as they have been known in other countries and the treatment for them is known. Therefore, in regard to discovering the treatment, there is no need for research. The research now is to discover the types of pest from which we normally suffer and the types from which we abnormally suffer due to the incidence of new arrivals.

Mr. Hughes

There could be an improvement in the treatment.

Mr. Moylan

I think it would be far better if we discussed the various other points on the Forestry Bill, including this question of being able to plant trees on lands hitherto non-planted, or where they have been failures. I am glad to see enthusiasm on the part of a farmer-Deputy of Fine Gael, as generally farmers are not too enthusiastic for forestry. I think it is of very great importance that we should develop our forestry as far as possible Different trees grow on different soils and particularly the long-lived hard woods need more soil fertility than the pines. That is one of the reasons why we have been developing our forestry with more pine woods rather than with more native hard woods. There have been experiments in the past and, naturally, there are at all times experiments going on into the type of tree most suitable for a particular locality and the effects on various trees in acid soils, particularly with certain adventitious aids like phosphates. I have seen experiments carried out where, in one particular soil, planting the trees in the soil as it existed was a complete failure, whereas with the addition of certain phosphates to the soil we had a reasonably successful growth. That is from my layman's point of view, and the Deputy will understand that better than I would of course. I suppose phosphate treatment is rather expensive.

We have only a certain limited amount of money for forestry. For the moment, it is quite adequate, and, for the moment, the forestry policy is quite adequate to the needs of the country. If we could proceed at a faster pace, I would be very glad, as I am very much interested in it. In my opinion, what constitutes, and will constitute, the great difficulty in the development of forestry is the difficulty of securing land suitable for forestry and it is a poor type of land that will not grow trees. However, with the Deputy's permission, I prefer to discuss all this matter on the Forestry Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Votes Nos. 9, 51 and 53, reported and agreed to.