The amendment on the Order Paper is a rather wide amendment and I suggest that there might be an ad hoc recommittal for the purpose of this amendment.
Agreed.
Children's Allowances Amendment Bill, 1946—Recommittal and Final Stages.
I move:-
In page 3, Section 5 (1), to delete paragraphs (a), (b) and (c), and the word "if" in line 4.
The reason why I am proposing this amendment is because I reconsidered the provisions of the section following the discussion of the Bill in Committee. Deputies will recollect that during that discussion a number of instances were quoted of special circumstances of families and I was asked whether in each of these instances a claim for children's allowances would lie and, if so, who could exercise the claim. I stated during the course of that discussion that so long as there is a group of qualified children residing within the State somebody would be entitled to a children's allowance. On examining the matter, however, after the discussion, I had to decide that that was not necessarily true, that so long as there were qualifications to be met by the claimant as well as qualifications to be met by the children, it was conceivable that circumstances would arise in which there would be a group of qualified children with nobody qualified to claim on their behalf. I decided, however, that there was no reason why I should maintain any special conditions to be met by claimants and the purpose of the amendment is to remove all such conditions so as to enable any person to claim a children's allowance solely on the ground that there are residing with him the requisite number of qualified children. Originally it was proposed to amend the section of the original Act by simplifying and widening the definition of the classes of person qualified to claim an allowance. I am proposing now to extend it indefinitely by removing all conditions of any kind. The position will in future be, therefore, that any person who has residing with him in this country a number of qualified children sufficient to entitle him to claim an allowance will be entitled to receive it.
May I take it that the effect of it, in a few words, is that it is only the qualification of the children that will be taken into account and that the qualification of the claimant, so to speak, will not arise?
Will not arise.
Does it follow then that if a number of children come from abroad to reside here for, say, six months that during that six months they would be qualified?
If the deciding officer holds that the children are ordinarily resident here. The only conditions to which the children must conform are : first of all, they must be under 16 years and, secondly, they must be ordinarily resident here. The allowance will be paid only in respect of children ordinarily resident here. The only case where that would not arise would be where a child is in a reformatory or an industrial school or any institution where the State was already providing for its maintenance and the claimant was not so providing.
Do I take it that in future, by the deletion of paragraphs (a), (b) and (c), if children are ordinarily resident here a children's allowance will be payable in respect of those who are qualified irrespective of the nationality of the father? Both parents may be English, but the children may come here and settle down and be normally resident. In that case children's allowances will be payable to the parents in respect of the children?
They will be payable to the person with whom the children reside normally. The children will, as I explained, be deemed to reside with their parents, but there may be a case where a claim can be made by some person other than the parents, provided the children are residing with him.
Irish citizenship is deleted?
That is deleted entirely.
Am I correct in thinking this will cover the case of a family which is split up?
No, there must be the requisite number of qualified children in the house. In case I may be misunderstood, I may say that the mere fact that some children of the family might be residing with a relative upon the qualifying date will not prevent them from being the basis of a claim if the deciding officer holds that they are ordinarily resident with their parents; I mean that they do not actually have to be living in the house of the parent on the qualifying date, provided they are ordinarily resident there.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Amendment reported and agreed to.
Question—"That the Bill, as amended, be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.
Agreed to take the Fifth Stage now.
Question—"That the Bill, as amended, do now pass"—put and agreed to.