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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 Nov 1946

Vol. 103 No. 6

Adjournment Debate—Export of Turkeys.

In reply to four Parliamentary Questions yesterday, with reference to a change in the price of Irish turkeys in Britain, the Minister for Agriculture stated:

"In an Order made by the British Minister of Food increased prices were prescribed for turkeys as from 1st September, 1946. There was no differentiation in the Order between home-produced and imported birds and consequently the increased prices applied to imports from this country. In a letter dated 23rd October, addressed to the High Commissioner, London, the Ministry of Food stated that it was decided to have a differential price between home-produced and imported birds; that this was to be effected by reducing the price for imported birds and that the imported price was to apply to our turkeys. This was the first official intimation received of the proposed reduction in our price. Appropriate representations have been made to the Minister of Food on various grounds including the superior quality of our turkeys but, so far, these representations have not proved effective."

Because of the seriousness of the cut in price to many housewives, we were forced to put down these questions, with a view to eliciting information on the matter from the Minister, but the information we got in the reply was not very helpful. We all appreciate the care and personal attention given by many housewives to the rearing of turkeys and to bringing them to a point at which they have earned a name second to none in the British market. As a matter of fact, Irish turkeys to-day are the finest birds and are superior to the best Norfolk. The report in last week's daily Press came as a bombshell to these people who looked forward to a decent price around Christmas. The report emanated from the other side and our Department was completely silent on the matter.

The problem affects an export quantity of goods valued at approximately £1,000,000. I think we export in the neighbourhood of 70,000 cwts. and the loss, if it is to be a loss, of 9d. in the lb. means a substantial sum of approximately a quarter of a million. The Minister got notice, he informs us in his reply, of this action on the part of the British Minister of Food on 23rd October. In his reply, he I presume, inadvertently omitted to reply to that part of my question in which I asked whether the price for the coming season was discussed by him or by officers of his Department during their recent food talks in London. In reply to a supplementary question of mine, he informed the House that this question was discussed, and, having examined the whole problem, I am forced to conclude that the Minister must have fumbled and completely mishandled the negotiations in London in recent weeks, because if the price of turkeys was discussed in London, agreed to by both parties and copper-fastened there by the Minister, it is inconceivable that there should be unilateral action of this sort by the British Minister. If it is unilateral action in face of a definite agreement made a few weeks ago, surely the Minister has a case which could be and ought to be straightened out in a very short time.

It seems an extraordinary situation that our birds should be put into the category of foreign birds. They are put into the worst class, on the same basis as birds from the Argentine and Hungary, when, on merit alone, they are far superior to that class of poultry. One is entitled to ask what has become of Imperial preference and what has become of our rights. If we are entitled to all the advantages to which the Taoiseach claims we are entitled because of the peculiar association he has in his mind with the Commonwealth, are they to be ignored by the British Government and the British Minister of Food and are these products of ours to be put into the foreign grade?

It seems extraordinary, in view of the fact that a special invitation was sent by the British Minister to come over to London a few weeks ago to see what could be done in the way of increased imports of food from this country into Great Britain, in view of the seriousness of the food situation there, and, I take it, to see what could be done to stimulate and expand production here with a view to increasing exports, we get, as a result of the visit of that special mission and all the expenses incurred by our delegation, an increase of 1d. per 1b. on a mere handful of beef animals—about 20,000 animals, animals which are misfits and which do not fall into the category of forward stores. We get a mere 1d. per lb. on that small number of animals. The Minister told us yesterday that, as a result of the negotiations, we are not to get a better price for our eggs, that we are to get only the same price as we were entitled to get under the 1943 and 1945 agreements and are to be fined 9d. per lb. on turkeys, if the decision of the British Minister is to be implemented.

I do not think the House can commend or congratulate the Minister on his work and the work of his delegation. The result is certainly very poor and very disappointing. It has often been said here that we do not want to go hat in hand, and we do not suggest that we should go hat in hand, but we certainly feel that when a responsible Minister goes across to London to meet the responsible Minister on the other side, whatever negotiations take place, clear decisions ought to be taken and a definite understanding arrived at, so far as the various categories of food discussed are concerned.

I hope the Minister will have some satisfactory answer for the House on this matter. We are at least entitled to a full and frank statement as to the position. The country is entitled to know what has taken place and why it is that, a few short weeks after the Minister's discussion in London, action of this sort is taken by the responsible Minister on the other side. I hope that the Minister is in a position to inform the House that everything is being done by himself and by his Department to readjust that figure. I am anxious to give the Minister all the time he may require because I understand that he is to make a full statement on the matter.

Deputy Hughes has asked me to make a full and frank statement on the position with regard to any negotiations which might have taken place on the price of turkeys and I shall be very glad to do that. It will be remembered that a conference concerning, inter alia, a long-term contract for the supply of eggs to the Ministry of Food took place last September between Mr. Strachey and myself at which the High Commissioner and officials of the Ministry of Food and my Department were present. Conferences were also held between British and Irish officials and trade representatives in regard to poultry prices and their relation to the proposed eggs contract. It was never suggested at any of these meetings that there would be an early change in the prices prescribed for turkeys from 1st September, 1946, and it was understood that these prices would be continued to the end of the season at least. As the negotiations were conducted on that basis it must be assumed that the British representatives also held that view.

My Department learned, however, towards the end of last month that it was being rumoured amongst poultry dealers in London that the Minister of Food was about to amend the Order made by him on 30th August in regard to turkey prices and that the amendment was likely to be detrimental to the interests of our poultry producers. This was the first intimation the Department received of any impending change in the price of turkeys. The matter was immediately referred to the High Commissioner in London to ascertain whether there was any foundation for the rumour.

It was only after the High Commissioner had made inquiries in the matter that the Ministry of Food informed him of the proposal to reduce the price of Irish turkeys while maintaining the price promised to British and Northern Ireland producers. This was to be effected by fixing different prices for home-produced birds and imported birds and putting all imported turkeys, good, bad and indifferent, in the same category as regards price. The maximum retail prices announced for imported turkeys were less than those for home-produced by 7d. per lb. for plucked, undrawn birds and 9d. per lb. for drawn and trussed birds.

During the war years the condition, quality, preparation and packing of our turkeys were kept up to a very high standard by constant supervision even though there was then no competition from other imported birds. Furthermore, when supplies from other outside sources were not available in Great Britain and home supplies were being sold to distributors without much regard to the matter of equitable distribution we, in order to co-operate to the fullest possible extent with the declared policy of the Ministry of Food, prohibited export except to the Association of Distributors operating under the Ministry, and the whole of our exportable surplus was sent to centres designated by that Association. Our turkeys this year will, as in previous years, be amongst the very best on the British market and it would be unjust if, notwithstanding their excellent quality, they were now to be arbitrarily classified as amongst the worst for price purposes. This action would without any doubt prove a serious discouragement to producers and shippers.

The proposal in regard to our turkey prices appears particularly unfortunate when it is remembered that, no matter what arrangements the Ministry of Food may make, it will not be possible to distinguish between good English and good Irish turkeys when they are on sale in the shops. What would most likely happen in fact is that Irish turkeys would be retailed as home-produced and no benefit would accrue to British producers or consumers. The only beneficiaries would be the distributors who might get, over and above their fair trade margin, a further profit of 7/- to 16/- per bird according to size. In these circumstances I contend that our turkeys should be sold on the open market for what they will fetch, subject of course to the overriding maximum fixed for home-produced turkeys. I do not ask for a guaranteed price but I think it unfair that the Minister of Food should intervene to deprive us of true market value.

In the course of negotiations the British Ministry were informed that most of the enhanced poultry price was to be used to improve our egg prices with the object of maintaining or increasing supplies of eggs for export. They encouraged this interchange of funds and we had reason to assume that there would be a substantial fund for egg production from the increase in the turkey price. That may now have to be abandoned and, although our costs of production and feeding difficulties are not less than in Great Britain, the prices allowed by the Ministry for our poultry as well as our eggs may be considerably less than those allowed for home-produced.

At the beginning of September, after the increased prices had been announced by the Ministry, a Press notice was issued intimating to our producers that 3d. per lb. over the previous prices would be paid on all exports of dead birds and the balance of the increase in the Ministry of Food's prices would be utilised for the improvement and development of our poultry and egg industry as a whole. Having made that promise we feel bound by it. We cannot now go back on it for the remainder of this season, and if the existing turkey price is reduced the result will be that, instead of having a bigger fund from the turkey money to be used for the purpose of increasing egg exports next year, we shall have no fund from that source.

It may not be realised by the man in the street, although it must be well known to the Ministry of Food, that the number of turkeys sent from this country to Great Britain in 1940 and 1941 was over 500,000 each year; in 1942 and 1943 the average was 700,000 a year, and in 1944 and 1945 the average was over 800,000 a year.

What is the Christmas export?

It is practically all Christmas trade. A certain number of turkeys go on the market previous to Christmas but it is all regarded as Christmas trade. One of the reasons advanced for the proposal to differentiate between the prices of home-produced and Irish turkeys is that before the war home-produced turkeys always commanded on their merits a higher price than imported birds and, therefore, it is not unreasonable that they should do so now. In considering this argument it must be remembered that all turkeys imported into Great Britain before the war had to be marked so as to indicate the country of origin. The object of this regulation obviously was to warn purchasers that the imported birds were inferior and should not command as high a price as unmarked, that is, home-produced birds. Notwithstanding this great disadvantage, I find that during the months of November and December, 1938, the wholesaler to retailer prices of our turkeys at various markets in Great Britain were the same as those for Northern Ireland birds. I am informed that, except for specially bred and fed Norfolk birds, Irish birds obtained during these months the same prices as were paid for home-produced. Comparing our prices with those of birds from Central Europe, from which a large part of imported turkeys was supplied, the figures available show that ours were consistently the higher, the difference in our favour ranging from 2½d. to 5d. per lb. In these circumstances there is an unanswerable case for classifying our turkeys on their merits amongst home-produced for price purposes.

The position is that the Minister of Food has announced maximum prices for turkeys in two classes, home-produced and imported and, further, that he has informed our High Commissioner in London that our turkeys will be put into the imported class and will therefore rank for the lower price.

In view of the attitude of the British Government in this matter and their obvious intention to get our turkeys at the lowest possible price, the price paid for inferior Central European turkeys, would the Minister ask the Government to consider the question of setting up an organisation to buy Irish turkeys in the month of December for the purpose of distributing them at a reduced price, subsidised by the Exchequer, to tens of thousands of people in this country who are unable to get turkeys? In that way we could use our own good turkeys for the benefit of the people who produce them and thus get over the difficulties which have arisen because of the British Government's attitude. We have £100,000,000 sterling in the Bank of England and surely our assets in that respect can be utilised to finance turkey production in this country for the benefit of our own people instead of the benefit of others.

It is well worth considering.

If we are going to give away turkeys to the British, we ought to give them to our own people first.

Would the Minister say whether a definite understanding regarding the price of turkeys was arrived at at the conference?

We believe there was a definite understanding. There was never anything said to the contrary.

Was that put on paper?

No. That is the difficulty. In all these negotiations it was, of course, across a table what the prices were to be, and so on, and when that was all over the Minister made his Order announcing what the prices were to be. Of course, we must admit that he did not say that he was not going to change them again in the middle of November but during all the negotiations there was never any suggestion that there would be a change in the price of turkeys before the end of this season.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 15th November.

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