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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 Feb 1949

Vol. 114 No. 3

Private Deputies' Business. - Adjournment Debate—Allotment of Limerick Land.

I addressed a question to the Minister for Lands to-day as follows:

To ask the Minister for Lands if he will state under what regulation of the Land Commission a plot of land on the O'Brien estate, Cromin, Co. Limerick (Collection No. P8712), was recently allotted to Mr. Patrick O'Donnell.

The Minister, in reply, told me that it was allotted by the Land Commission in the exercise of their powers under Section 31 of the Land Act, 1923. I asked the Minister a supplementary question. I asked him to justify giving a plot like this to a man with a valuation of £136, a farm of 126 statute acres, and who has let every year over a number of years 80 acres of the 126 in grazing. The Minister said he was not responsible for the introduction of the 1946 Act under which, apparently, the plot in question was taken from the man for bad user. That was sidetracking the question I put to the Minister and I am raising the matter here to-night to see if the Minister can justify the action of the Land Commission and throw more light on the reallocation of this plot to a man who was already a large landholder and who was letting a substantial portion of the farm he had in grazing.

The history of this case is that the O'Brien estate in Dromin was acquired by the Land Commission about 11 years ago. There was a herd on the estate named O'Brien and he got this plot in question, I understand, as compensation for the loss of his employment as a herd. This is a plot of four or five statute acres. He was found not to have worked the land according to approved methods of husbandry and the Land Commission resumed possestion some time in 1947. They let it then to a cottier who lived across the road from the plot, a man named Burns, and I understood from an answer the Minister gave to another question put to him on November 18th that it was let for revenue purposes under a grazing agreement from the 3rd December, 1947, to the 31st October, 1948. When the 31st October, 1948, came, Burns was dispossessed. His grazing letting, evidently, had terminated. The plot was resumed by the Land Commission and given to this large land-holder with the 126 statute acres and £136 valuation. This land-holder was himself a migrant and when the O'Brien estate at Dromin was acquired 11 years ago he surrendered his own holding in another part of County Limerick and got this place by way of exchange.

I realise quite well that under the circumstances he was entitled to do what he liked with that land. He could either work it as a dairy or tillage or fattening farm or let it in grazing, as he did. I am not quarrelling with that at all. What I am quarrelling with is the dispossession of the cottier who got that on a grazing letting and the handing over to a man who already had a very large holding and who was not working that holding as the Land Commission would expect it to be worked in order to qualify for any portion of land whatever.

According to the section of the Act the Minister quoted—Section 31 of the Land Act of 1923—allotments could be made to uneconomic holders, to a person who entered into an agreement with the Land Commission for the exchange of a holding, to a genuine representative of an evicted tenant, to a person being a labourer who by reason of the sale of any lands under the provisions of the Land Purchase Acts has been deprived of his employment on the said lands, to trustees for the purposes mentioned in Section 4 of the Irish Land Act, 1903, as extended by the 1923 Act, and any other person or body to whom, in the opinion of the Land Commission, an advance ought to be made.

I will direct the Minister's attention to sub-section (2) of the section he quoted. Here it is:

"The Land Commission, in deciding as to the suitability of applicants under this section, shall be satisfied as to their competence to work the land, and their intention to do so and not to sell, let or assign it."

Here we have a case where a man who could not in any circumstances be described as an uneconomic holder with 126 statute acres of land carrying a valuation of £136 and who is actually letting some of his land; yet, this man still gets more land from the Land Commission. At the same time a cottier living across the road who could work these four acres as an accommodation plot is deprived of them. The man who got the four acres is not qualified, as far as I can gather, under any of the regulations of the Land Commission in any circumstances whatsover. How does the Minister justify that action on the part of the Land Commission? I have seen the Land Commission do many queer things in my time but this recent example beats all the others.

I thought they never did anything wrong.

The facts that I am giving to the Minister were clicited under oath in court. The size of the holding in question, the valuation of it, the fact that a substantial portion of it is let every year and all the other data that I have given to the Minister were elicited under oath. I want to know how the Minister can justify that action on the part of the Land Commission. There is no justification for it under any of the regulations that I can discover. This cottier was in possession of these four acres from October, 1947, to 1st November, 1948. He was doing his best to work the land to the satisfaction of the Land Commission. He had bought two milch cows and three young cattle. He was tilling a substantial portion of his own cottage plot. He was doing all in his power to work that land in a manner satisfactory to the Land Commission and beneficial to himself, his wife and young family. I think he was disgracefully treated by the Land Commission. I raised this question earlier to-day and, being dissatisfied with the Minister's reply, I raise it again now. What justification is there for the way in which this matter was dealt with by the Land Commission?

Give the Minister a few minutes and he will tell you.

I asked the Minister under what regulations of the Land Commission was this plot allotted to Patrick O'Donnell. That is the name of the man. I had difficulty in getting that information from the Minister, but he gave it to me in the end. He gave it to me in reply to a previous question that I put down on the 1st December. Why all this talk about the rural labourers and the effort to help them to better their conditions when the Land Commission turns round and behaves in this fashion. The Minister comes from the West of Ireland. He knows what conditions and circumstances are like there. How can he justify this action on the part of the Land Commission? There is a squalid atmosphere about this whole matter for which I can see no justification. To me it appears to be illegal. There is no regulation in the Land Commission under which a small plot of land like this could be handed over to a large land-holder who was letting a substantial portion of his lands in grazing, thereby depriving a cottier, who was working the land satisfactorily, of the particular plot.

I happen to know some of the circumstances surrounding the division of this particular land. I do not live in County Limerick but I have some knowledge of what happened there. I have never been an advocate of landlordism. I know the man from whom the land was acquired. His name is O'Brien. He worked the land in the best interests of the agricultural life of the country. His land was taken from him by the Fianna Fáil Government and he was given £5 per acre compensation. Dromin is reputed to be some of the best dairying and grazing land in Ireland.

A Leas-Chinn Chomhairle, níl aon bhaint aige seo leis an gceist atá curtha agamsa. Tá mé ag iarraidh ar an Aire míniú a thabhairt ar an gceart a shamhlaíos sé a bheith ag Coimisiún na Talún le tuilleadh talún a thabhairt don fheirmeoir mhór seo a bhfuil go leor talún cheana féin aige.

Níl aon bhaint aige sin leis an gceist a chuir an Teachta.

I know these lands.

The Deputy said that Dromin was acquired several years ago. That is what the Deputy is talking about.

Ní thuigim cén bealach a bhfuil baint aige sin leis an gceist seo.

I am stating that it was acquired by the Fianna Fáil Government and at that time a man got £5 per acre for it. From whom did the present holder get it and why did he get it?

That does not arise on this.

It was an exchange. He surrendered his own holding.

That is good enough. I would like to know the value of the land for which he exchanged it.

I do not know that.

I would like the Minister in his reply to tell us why that man got 126 acres when this cottier was there at the time and was an obviously uneconomic holder. Why did the herd who was herding O'Brien's estate and who caused all the agitation get only five acres?

The Deputy does not want a cottier to get land.

Why did he not get land if he qualified for it?

You are advocating that he should not get it.

The apparent innocence of Deputy Ó Briain would draw tears from a stone.

You are not weeping yet.

It would take a good deal to draw a tear from you. Deputy Ó Briain works himself up into a state of righteous indignation over an aileged rancher named O'Donnell because a plot of four acres adjoining his holding was allotted to him by the Land Commission a short time ago. What are the facts concerning O'Donnell? What brought O'Donnell into this area? Why on his coming into the area was he given 126 acres, or whatever it is the Deputy asserts he has?

The Minister should be able to get that information.

The question is why did he get four more?

Could the Minister not get that information from his own Department?

I have often heard of a man trying to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. We have had a most glaring example of that here to-night.

O'Donnell was a migrant.

If Patrick O'Donnell is the large rancher you say he is, is it not rather extraordinary that the previous Government gave this socalled ranch to him? Surely your own ex-Minister for Lands should be able to furnish you with the reasons. I am not familiar with all the Deputy's constituents in Limerick. I have not the knowledge of them that the Deputy has. If decency did not prevent me from quoting some of the documents here on this file concerning that estate, the House would have some very interesting reading. I invite the Deputy to put down a motion to have these documents discussed in the House. I shall then facilitate him in every possible way.

I put down a question and I want an answer to it. I want an answer to a simple question: how does the Minister justify this?

You will get an answer to a complicated question.

If the Deputy tables a motion I shall facilitate him. I cannot give him all the information now because it is not the practice to reveal private documents in a private file even to Deputies. But I would welcome a motion from the Deputy asking that all the documents on this file should be made available here. Then we shall have the whole truth about the 126 acres and the four acres and two roods which were taken from this man Burns who, by the way, is a board of health cottier in the first place and, in the second place, herd on another estate which will be divided by the Land Commission when it is acquired and on which he will be entitled to a holding.

If and when it is acquired.

I asked a question and I want an answer.

Put down a motion.

The Minister dodged the question.

That was the most contemptible performance we have ever had in this House.

Put down a motion and you will get all the information you want.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 24th February, 1949.

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