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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 15 Mar 1950

Vol. 119 No. 13

Committee on Finance. - Flax Act, 1936 (Suspension) Bill, 1950—Committee Stage.

SECTION 1

I move the following amendment:—

In lines 17 and 18 to delete all words after "until" to the end of the section and substitute "the last day of December, 1950".

This is a simple amendment to this short measure and I do not think the Minister should have any serious objection to accepting it. The Bill itself is designed to secure the suspension of the Flax Act of 1936. My amendment will secure that purpose with the limitation that the purpose of the suspension will only be secured until the 31st of December of this year when the Minister can, if he thinks fit, come to the House again and ask the House, if the circumstances so warrant, for a further period of suspension. The fact of his coming here will enable him to give the House and the country some information on the position in regard to the whole flax business.

I may say, too, that I am rather suspicious of this short Bill. It seems to me to convey the Minister's desire to secure here a condition whereby he will not again have to come before this Assembly in order that a discussion such as the one we have already had would take place and, as a result of that, he provided in this section which I am proposing to amend that the Flax Act of 1936. will be suspended until such time as the Government think otherwise. I believe, from my experience over the past two years, that such freedom and such liberty are undesirable. I believe that the suspension should be granted but for a limited period and that if it is found to be necessary the Minister can then come forward with the same Bill and the same phraseology and we can have the advantage of a discussion on this important matter.

Deputy Smith would appear to overlook the fact that it is open to him at any time he wishes to discuss any matter to put down a motion and, inasmuch as he is a member of the Front Bench of the Opposition, it would be the duty of the Government to provide Government time to discuss any serious topic which a speaker from the Opposition Front Bench has submitted to the House for discussion. I cannot recollect any occasion on which a responsible opposition member has asked for that concession when it has not been very readily forthcoming.

Deputy Smith seems to forget what he himself said. He brought a Bill, virtually identical with this Bill, before Dáil Éireann to suspended the Flax Act. At column 236 of the Official Reports of the Parliamentary Debates of the 23rd January, 1947, Deputy Smith said:—

"This suspensory Bill merely gives scope and freedom to do something in the flax growers' interest which would not be so easy to do if the 1936 Act were to continue to operate."

Can it be that Deputy Smith wishes his successor in office to be restricted with the shackles of the 1936 Act when he himself three years ago declared that in order to free himself to serve the best interests of the flax growers he was coming to the House to relieve himself of the statutory obligations put upon him by that Act?

We are all familiar with the difficulty of finding adequate parliamentary time to provide the Opposition with the fullest scope for their legitimate duty of criticism and inquiry. The sole object I had in mind in suspending the Flax Act of 1936 until such time as it was thought expedient to revive it was to avoid the necessity of having a First Stage, a Second Stage, a Committee Stage, a Report Stage and a Fifth Stage of a Flax Act in Dáil Éireann every year and the same procedure in Seanad Éireann. If I, as Minister for Agriculture, want the powers of the Flax Act, I will revive the Act. If I do not want them, and if Deputy Smith thinks I ought to have them, there is no conceivable restriction on his right to put down a motion to the effect that Dáil Éireann is of opinion that the Government ought to revive the Flax Act. But surely I must suspect that Deputy Smith is not wholly disinterested in this amendment when there can be no conceivable grounds advanced which could appeal to the reason of any rational man for imposing on Oireachtas Éireann the necessity of passing a Bill through five stages in the Dáil and in the Seanad each year when exactly the same purpose could be served by submitting a resolution?

It has been suggested—and possibly some Deputies, like Deputy Maguire, were under some misapprehension about this matter—that the flax legislation was designed to protect a thriving agricultural occupation of a number of hardworking farmers in certain restricted areas in the country. I think I have explained to Deputy Maguire that that was quite a mistake, that there was no such situation obtaining. I think it was Deputy Smith who went on to say that the Flax Board had been functioning for years in the Department, and he asked what had become of it. The Flax Board was set up in 1943, I think, to distribute money which was provided by the British Government to enable scutch mills to be equipped so that the British Government could get the flax which they wanted for aeroplanes. It had never existed before. Its sole purpose was to distribute money which the British Government paid to the Irish Government for the purpose, with a view to maximising the production of flax and linen required for the aeroplane industry.

I think it was Deputy Smith desired that this matter should be further postponed to this stage so that he might elicit further information about certain matters. He could get this information as readily by putting down a parliamentary question if it is too much trouble to put down a motion. There is no means available to me if I wanted—which I do not—to withhold information from any Deputy of the House and there is no means available to me, if ordinary parliamentary procedure is to be observed, which I sincerely hope it will, whereby I could resist a debate on flax whenever the Front Bench of the Opposition expressed their desire to have it.

There are motions down for two years which have not been reached yet.

I did not hear Deputy Killilea's intervention.

We have the same difficulty in hearing the Minister.

Is this the reward of so respectfully deferring to Deputies on the Opposition Benches?

I can hear you—that is the important thing.

Deputy Maguire stands rebuked.

It may seem somewhat strange that I could have disposed of the arguments to which we have just listened in advance. In fact, I have here before me a number of notes I prepared which would show that I was perfectly conscious of the case the Minister would make in resisting the amendment which I have tabled. I knew that I would be told that Question Time was designed for the purpose of facilitating private Deputies and members of the Opposition to elicit information on matters affecting the public. I knew I would be told that, in the event of a Minister refusing to give this information, or in the event of our failing to get the fullest possible information by way of supplementary question, we could avail of half an hour on the Adjournment to raise at more length the particular matter in which we are interested. I knew in advance that the Minister would say that as a member of the Front Bench Opposition, I could have tabled a motion dealing with this matter at any time and that if the Whips of our Party approached the Government Whips, time would be made available for discussion not only on this but on any other question which we wished to raise. I was fully aware of the fact that the Minister would advance these arguments. I refrained from dealing with them in advance but I shall deal with them now.

When in 1949 questions were tabled here by Deputies Maguire and Mrs. Rice dealing with the flax situation, I can recall very well as I am sure can other members of the House, the attitude adopted by the Minister. He warned them that they were tying his hands, that he was engaged in a discussion with Northern spinners, and that their questions were inopportune and unhelpful. That was all designed, of course, to frighten them away from a discussion on this particular matter but, at a later stage through the Information Bureau, a history of the negotiations on the flax question was released to the public and an announcement was made to the effect that the Minister had thrown up his hands in despair of solving the problem of arriving at an agreement with the Six-County spinners in regard to a price for last year.

What has this to do with the Bill?

It is designed to show, when the House is invited to take advantage of the opportunities that have been cited by the Minister for a discussion of this or any other subject, that we did on previous occasions take advantage of their facilities and we were told that we were crippling his efforts, tying his hands and sabotaging the Minister in his endeavours to secure a suitable agreement for our growers. I am trying to demonstrate that even at a later stage after a statement was conveyed through the Information Bureau to the public, setting out the history of these discussions, I asked further parliamentary questions here, and not being satisfied with the reply, I raised the matter on the Adjournment. I find I was accused in the very same fashion with taking the side of the outsider against our own producers, our own farmers. We have had experience of the way in which these matters have been dealt with by members of the Government, and especially by the present Minister who, in spite of his protestations and instead of being the docile, quiet lamb which he has represented himself here to-night to be, uses Question Time in this House——

That does not arise.

I assure you I am not going very far in this matter. He uses Question Time for the purpose of depriving members of the Opposition of the information to which they are legitimately entitled. We have noticed for a long time a tendency on the part of certain Ministers not to give to members of the Opposition, the Fianna Fáil Party, the information they seek. A slick effort is being made to sidestep and short-circuit us, to deprive us of that information. It is in that setting that I am resisting and disposing completely of the arguments advanced by the Minister in support of his contention that he should be given these powers to suspend this Act until such time as the Government think it fit and proper.

Reference has been made here to the fact that a Bill was introduced by me seeking similar powers. I cannot say from memory if that is correct, but, if the Minister says that is so, I accept that statement. There is an important difference between my action an the Minister coming to the House for similar powers. There is this difference, that in his case he has washed his hands completely, as Minister, of any responsibility for making an effort to secure agreement in the matter of price with the Northern spinners. For my part I would regard the business of flax growing as so important that I would continue to strive, while prices were in any way remunerative, to seek agreement on behalf of our growers here with the Northern spinners.

I may have asked for similar powers, but I contend that those who have an understanding of the different method of approach, the different attitude adopted by both of us in this matter will appreciate that it is one thing to give powers to one who is vitally interested and another thing to give them to one who, as the Minister admitted to me yesterday in reply to a Parliamentary Question, did not make a single approach to the Six-County spinners with a view to effecting an agreement.

What has that to do with the Bill or with the amendment?

The argument has been made by the Minister that the powers he is seeking are similar to the powers which I sought in my time. I am not contesting the truth of that statement. I am endeavouring to demonstrate to the House that it is one thing to go to a person who has a sympathetic understanding and approach to this matter and another thing to go to a person who has no understanding and no desire to help those engaged in the business.

If the Deputy is talking against time, he should have more Deputies to listen to him than are in the House at the moment.

That is a pity, because I am worth listening to.

We have been listening to a lot of obstruction the whole evening.

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted and, 20 Deputies being present,

I am anxious to know from the Minister if, in the event of the House rejecting my amendment, some statement will be made as to whether or not he intends next year to change his hand in this regard and discharge what I regard as his proper responsibility, by opening up negotiations with the Six-County spinners with a view to fixing a price for the following year?

Would not that be a matter for the Second Stage, on which I am told it was discussed?

I have finished with it, anyhow.

That does not put it in order.

I am told that in this amendment I am seeking to impose on the Minister restrictions which I, when I was a Minister, sought the authority of the House to have removed. I am not in this amendment seeking to impose restrictions; I am, in fact, providing that the restrictions imposed on the Minister should be removed, but for a stated period. Deputies who are conversant with the facts as I have stated them will be conscious of the need there is on our part to see that these restrictions will be removed, as they would be by the passage of the amendment. That will ensure that at the end of the year the Minister can, if he thinks fit, bring in a Bill which will give him an opportunity of telling the House what he has been doing during the previous 12 months and what is likely to happen in regard to flax in the succeeding season.

I should like to join in the observations made by Deputy Smith and I must tell the House the nature of the Act which Deputy Smith seeks to bring back into operation. This Act was in operation in 1936, 1937, 1938 and 1939.

Is there any chance of finishing this Bill, or will the Minister move to report progress?

No chance, I think.

I move to report progress.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.

Is not that a very edifying performance?

We will put you in your place, I am telling you.

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