asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will state the estimated amounts of the weekly contributions which would provide actuarially for each of the following classes of benefit, (a) disability, (b) unemployment, (c) maternity, (d) widows' and orphans' pensions, and (e) death grants for (i) men, and (ii) women under the Social Welfare (Insurance) (No. 2) Bill, 1950.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Welfare Scheme.
As the reply contains a tabular statement, I propose, with your permission, a Chinn Chomhairle, to circulate it with the official report.
Following is the reply:—
Estimates on the basis indicated by the Deputy have not been made. For the purpose of arriving at the contributions laid down in the Social Welfare (Insurance) (No. 2) Bill, the costs of benefits were assessed actuarially in respect of entrants into insurance at the age of 16. Level rates of contribution were determined in the light of these figures, separate contributions being fixed for males and females, the males meeting—as pointed out in paragraph 117 of the White Paper on "Social Security"—in addition to the cost of their own benefits, the full cost of maternity benefits and the benefits arising in respect of their dependent wives and families, i.e., widows' and orphans' benefits, death grants for wives, widows and children and that portion of retirement pensions received by women during widowhood.
Subject to these considerations, the allocations, under the heads mentioned in the question, of the ordinary rates of contribution in respect of entrants at the age of 16 are given in the following table:—
|
Men |
Women |
|||
|
s. |
d. |
s. |
d. |
|
|
Disability Benefit |
1 |
5 |
1 |
9 |
|
Unemployment Benefit |
2 |
4 |
1 |
7 |
|
Widow's Pension and Orphan's Allowance |
10 |
— |
||
|
Maternity Benefit |
4½ |
— |
||
|
Death Grant |
2½ |
1 |
Different figures would of course emerge if the calculations were based on a higher age of entry than 16 years.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will state the estimated number of recipients of (a) retirement pensions, and (b) old age pensions for the first, fifth, tenth, twelfth and thirtieth year of operation of the social insurance scheme and the estimated number of contributors to the scheme in each of these years.
The estimated numbers of recipients of retirement pensions on which the estimates of cost furnished in the White Paper on "Social Security" were based are as follows: —First full year: 25,000; fifth full year: 37,600. Corresponding figures for the tenth and twentieth years are 52,700 and 74,300 respectively. No estimate has been made of the number in the thirtieth year nor of the number of recipients of old age pensions in any of the years mentioned.
Any attempt to relate the numbers of recipients of retirement pensions to reductions in the number of old age pensioners must take into account the fact that whereas, in the latter case, the age from which pensions are payable is 70 years, in the former it is 65 for men and 60 for women.
With regard to the estimated number of contributors to the scheme, it was stated in paragraph 109 of the White Paper that the calculations of annual costs were based on the figure of 700,000 contributors and that this figure was not changed to allow for any assumed change or trend in the future. The Deputy will appreciate that if such change or trend reveals itself the figures I have given might need revision.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will state the estimated cost of each class of benefit under the Social Welfare (Insurance) (No. 2) Bill, 1950, for the first, fifth, tenth, twentieth and thirtieth year after the scheme comes into operation.
As the reply contains a tabular statement, I am, with your permission, a Chinn Chomhairle, having it circulated with the Official Report.
Following is the reply:—
The cost of the benefits provided under the Social Welfare (Insurance) (No. 2) Bill, 1950, cannot be estimated with any precision, in view of the absence of any information as to the extent to which farmers may avail themselves of the provisions of Clause 66 of the Bill, and also in view of Clause 4 (5) which provides that employments may by regulation be either excluded or included in the scheme with or without modifications.
The estimates furnished in paragraph 113 of the White Paper on "Social Security" were in respect of the first full year of the scheme. Similar figures are given in the following table for the fifth, tenth and twentieth years, but no estimate has been made in respect of the thirtieth year.
|
Annual Cost (£000's) |
||||
|
1st Year |
5th Year |
10th Year |
20t Year |
|
|
Disability Benefit |
2,100 |
2,100 |
2,100 |
2,100 |
|
Unemployment Benefit |
3,050 |
3,050 |
3,050 |
3,050 |
|
Maternity Benefit |
400 |
400 |
400 |
400 |
|
Retirement Pensions |
2,100 |
3,650 |
4,950 |
6,750q |
|
Widow's Pensions and Orphans' Allowance |
1,050 |
1,350 |
1,575 |
1,750 |
|
Death Grants |
100 |
150 |
175 |
250 |
|
Treatment Benefit |
500 |
500 |
500 |
500 |
As is indicated in paragraph 121 of the White Paper on "Social Security", it is proposed to review the financing of the scheme at the end of five years. The figures given above are on the basis that the scheme continues unaltered and they are subject to the outcome of the review mentioned.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will state the estimated cost of non-contributory old age pensions for the first, fifth, tenth, twentieth and thirtieth year after the Social Welfare (Insurance) (No. 2) Bill, 1950, shall have come into operation.
Estimates of the cost of non-contributory old age pensions for the years mentioned by the Deputy have not been made. It was pointed out in paragraph 122 of the White Paper on "Social Security" that, for various reasons, it is well-nigh impossible to secure anything like accurate estimates of savings on the assistance schemes and the figures there given were furnished, as stated, with the greatest reserve.
Does the Minister say that no actuarial calculation of the number of old age pensioners who will be in receipt of pensions when the scheme comes into operation in the years ahead is available?
That is not the question which the Deputy asked and, if he looks at his question, he will observe that fact. There is an actuarial cost which is the basis of the White Paper. The White Paper has been arrived at by ascertaining what liabilities will fall on the fund in respect of persons who were in the insured classes. The Deputy is raising a question now in respect of non-contributory old age pensions which relate to non-insured persons and which have no actuarial foundation whatever, the money being voted annually by Parliament without any regard to any actuarial basis.