Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 12 Mar 1952

Vol. 129 No. 12

Committee on Finance. - Vote 58—External Affairs (Resumed).

Mr. Dunne

Having given an example last evening of a release from the Irish News Agency which gained world-wide publicity, and having read for the House excerpts from that remarkable document, I think the House will agree that if the news agency is to develop along proper lines and is to have any national significance, or at least significance for national good, it will have to be made clear as a matter of fundamental policy that its journalistic efforts must rise above the explorations of fairy tales and the exploitations of fairy tales.

In case there might be any misunderstanding or misrepresentation in regard to my reading of the report in question, I would like to say that the statements in that report, which were attributed to prominent public men and officials in Limerick City and County, had no foundation whatsoever, in fact. I understand that extraordinary to the publication of that extraordinary report was the dismissal of some misguided individual who supplied the report. I am not concerned with that.

I do not know the motives that inspired the supplying of the report in the first instance, but I want to inquire what sort of officials we have that passed such a report for publication in Dublin and in London. I do so in the knowledge that it is probably necessary that Irish news for consumption abroad must be presented in a certain fashion. Journalistic tradition, perhaps, in other countries requires that news which emanates from this country must be presented in what is described as a saleable fashion, but, in my view, there is a very obvious medium, and there is a very obvious limit, beyond which journalists should not be allowed to transgress. That limit is indicated when the national good and the good name of the country are liable to be affected in any way by reports. Nobody can say that the type of report which I instanced here last night could have done anything except to bring the Irish people, as a whole, and Irish public officials and Irish public representatives into contempt in the eyes of the world because such a report could not but convey to outsiders that this nation was composed, at its highest levels of administration, of people whose superstitions led them to believe in the existance of hobgoblins, leprechauns and fairies.

I believe, as I said, that the news agency is an essential instrument for the propagation of Irish news in a proper fashion but, having said that and this House having expressed itself in a majority some years ago as being of that view, it does not flow from that that carte blanche must be given any person to paint whatever picture he likes to outside countries of our own country in order that news will sell. If the saleability of news is going to be the only yardstick by which the material supplied by the news agency is to be measured, then our standards of journalism in this country, judged by the report to which I have referred, would fall very low. Very often a good deal of lip-service is paid to our standards of journalism. Nobody can deny that, by and large, the standards of our journalists are of a very high order from the point of view of both unbiassed reporting and the ability of the men to do the work, always excluding, of course, the gutter journalism we read in the so-called political columns of the Irish Press, columns in which the inanities of every Fianna Fáil supporter——

An Ceann Comhairle

I do not see how that arises here.

Mr. Dunne

Perhaps it does not but I thought in passing it was as well to draw attention to it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy might be passing several other places.

Mr. Dunne

I thought it was time someone made a reference to it. I shall refer to it in greater detail when a more favourable opportunity presents itself. When this agency was brought into existence the then Minister for External Affairs stated expressly that it was not his intention that this agency would compete in the distribution of what is described as "hot news" in the technical jargon of the trade, and that that would form no part of its function. Unfortunately that policy does not seem to have been adhered to within the last six or eight months. I am interested in the matter because I think it is essential that the continuity of employment of journalists not directly employed by the agency should be safeguarded. There is an obligation on the Minister to ensure that any suspicion of competition in "hot news" which may affect the volume of employment in ordinary journalistic circles shall not be permitted and any attempt at such should be strongly deprecated and prevented.

I think there should be an investigation to find out how much competition there has been recently. It would be interesting to know if the agency quite recently secured photographs of what was regarded as a very important event in England and had these photographs rushed to Dublin for insertion in one evening paper while the other evening paper had allegedly no knowledge whatsoever of what was happening. Rumour has it that these things have occured. If they have occured, those who were responsible for them have merited the censure of the Minister and of the House.

I have always believed in both the usefulness and the desirability of the agency. I do not know what the attitude of the Government is towards the agency. We all remember the statement of the present Tánaiste, then deputy leader of the Opposition, when he expressed his profound disagreement with the plan to have an agency at all and described it as a fraud and a joke. That was a partisan political view and it has proved to be completely unfounded. Every nation of any importance endeavours at some stage of its development to provide against misrepresentation. The late Arthur Griffith deemed the finding of some method of overcoming what he described as "the paper wall" as one of the most urgent and pressing national tasks. There is still a "paper wall" around this country. It must be surmounted. It will not be surmounted if the wrong type of news is allowed to issue from here. It will rather be strengthened and consolidated.

With proper direction and a proper presentation of the facts—not of the fancies of irresponsible people—a great deal of good can be done by the agency. I expect the Minister, now that he is no longer in opposition, will agree as to the agency's usefulness. During the short time in which he will occupy his present office I would appeal to him to ensure that the policy of the agency will be so directed as to raise this country's good name amongst the other nations of the world.

Mr. MacBride

I would like to compliment the Government on having the moral courage to come here for a Supplementary Estimate for the news agency. It is often difficult, once one has taken up a certain attitude, to alter that attitude subsequently. I hope this is an indication that the Government appreciates the absolute necessity of our maintaining an independent news agency. It is not possible on this Supplementary Estimate to indulge in a detailed discussion on the agency itself, but I would like to point out that every time a question is asked about the agency or a debate takes place concerning the agency damage is done to it.

The prospect of the news agency becoming a solvent business proposition is being retarded by every irresponsible statement made in this House concerning the news agency. Deputies should bear that in mind.

I see no hope of the news agency becoming a solvent business proposition in less than five years. Five years may be an optimistic estimate. I do not think that this House would have expected the Electricity Supply Board, for instance, or the Turf Board or any of the other State corporations that we have created in the course of the last 25 or 30 years, to start paying dividends within a lesser period of time.

It is natural that during the intervening period the news agency will require from time to time financial assistance to enable it to succeed but I do hope that in the meanwhile Deputies will refrain from asking questions or discussing the workings of the news agency in the House because each time they do so they damage the business prospects of the agency.

Inevitably, mistakes will happen. Inevitably, reports will be sent out by the news agency that may not meet with unanimous approval in the House. I am sure that every day, even we are newspapers with whose views we are in complete agreement, we see reports published that we do not like, that we would not publish if we were responsible for the editing. That is inevitable. Having been a journalist for a number of years, I know how easily mistakes will happen. Indeed, Deputies should be the first to realise how often mistakes can be made by all of us, particularly when working against time. How often do we in this House make statements that are very far from being accurate? The instance taken by Deputy Dunne is of little or no import. Mistakes of that kind occur day in and day out.

I hope the news agency will make satisfactory progress. Again I would like to compliment the Minister and the Government on bringing in this Supplementary Estimate.

Mr. Cogan

I view with considerable uneasiness the proposal to grant additional money for the purposes of the Irish News Agency. It is a highly dangerous thing to use public money to subsidise any particular form of journalism. That in itself constitutes a danger to the freedom of the Press inasmuch as it means that all those engaged in the newspaper business who have to compete against the State subsidised institution are in danger of having their business completely destroyed if the Government is foolish enough to keep throwing money into this institution.

There ought to be definite decision on the part of the Government that the Irish News Agency should stand on its own feet and pay its way or get out. If it can succeed in paying its way as an ordinary commercial operation without any Government aid or subvention, it will justify itself. We cannot have the Irish News Agency, which is State-financed and State-subsidised, competing against ordinary journalists.

One of the most surprising and, in my opinion, one of the most disgusting exhibitions witnessed in this House was the attack made by Deputy Cosgrave on the Irish News Agency and, incidentally, on the News Agency Act, which he and the Government with which he was associated supported. That attack may be said to mark the end of the alliance between Fine Gael and Clann na Poblachta. Clann na Poblachta, like other parties which aided Fine Gael in the past, is now being thrown on the scrap-heap and the brain child of Deputy MacBride, the Irish News Agency, is being publicly denounced from the Front Bench of the Fine Gael Party. In this the Fine Gael Party is running true to form. Their path is strewn with the naked corpses of political Parties which tried to aid them—the old Farmers' Party, the National Centre Party——

An Ceann Comhairle

Surely that does not arise.

Mr. Cogan

And now the Clann na Poblachta Party.

An Ceann Comhairle

Surely that does not arise.

Mr. Cogan

The Clann na Poblachta Party are now being discarded and the Irish News Agency, which they promoted and which was the only tangible industry which they succeeded in establishing, is now being denounced by the chief opposition Party.

We must make up our minds that grants of this kind must cease. I appreciate the action of the Government in not terminating the agency, although it was very strongly condemned by the present Minister for Industry and Commerce and other members of the present Government when they were in opposition. I think they are right to give this agency a chance to prove itself. I am satisfied that if the news agency is able to meet ordinary competition without State assistance of any kind and to hold its own it will justify itself, but we are taking a very great risk in regard to freedom of expression and freedom of the Press if we continue subsidising an institution of this kind.

I congratulate Deputy Dunne on having drawn attention to one particular incident in the activities of the Irish News Agency and also on having escape the vengeance of the "good people" for having held them up to public ridicule.

I have another serious complaint to make in regard to the manner in which news has been circulated by this so-called news agency. During the past year I had occasion to inspect a file of news items transmitted by the Irish News Agency to newspapers in the United States of America. Nearly every page in that series of reports reflected nothing but discredit on this country and on the news agency which issued them. I will give only one instance of the kind of news which was sent out in that particular series. A Wicklow farmer who had lived all his life peacefully in the Wicklow mountains was accused in a report sent to the American papers of having disinherited his grandson because that young man had joined the L.D.F.

It was stated that the poor farmer was a Partitionist. That is only one portion of the series of reports that were sent out under the heading of "The Battle of Baltinglass". It is absolutely necessary that when we, as a national Parliament, provide money for the upkeep of an agency of this kind at the taxpayer's expense, we should be very careful to see that the news that is sent abroad concerning this country is news that reflects credit upon our nation and not news, such as Deputy Dunne has quoted and such as I have referred to, which reflects nothing but discredit and ridicule upon our nation.

It may be said—it will be said—that news items which this Parliament provides are probably the type of news items which sell best in foreign countries. If that is to be the standard which will guide the operations of this Irish News Agency, the sooner it is closed down the better.

As I say, I am not pressing the Minister to discontinue this agency. I think he has shown tolerance and goodwill in allowing it to continue, especially in view of the fact that it was established against the will of his Party by his own political opponents. However, I think he ought to make it clear to those who are managing this agency that they cannot expect, in the future, to have their operations financed out of the public purse.

Minister for External Affairs (Mr. Aiken)

I think that the main Estimate would have been a more appropriate occasion on which to discuss the policy and the whole idea of the news agency, but some things have been said in this debate to which I must reply, and information has been asked for which I must give.

I am quite aware of all that was said during the debate when the Act establishing this news agency went through the House. I think it is wrong for Deputy Cosgrave to say that no one thought that the news agency was going to deal with what is called "hot" news. At that time Deputy Cosgrave was a Parliamentary Secretary. He was, I understand, secretary to the Cabinet and saw all the documents. There was one document in connection with the foundation of the news agency of which he should have had knowledge. That document was the articles of association of the news agency. In it it is stated that one of the objects of the company was:

"(1) To carry on the business of a news agency in all its branches and to ensure the collection, dissemination, distribution and publication of news, intelligence and photographs inside and outside Ireland and for these purposes to use any telephone, telegraph or wireless system or any other means of communication."

That was a document that was passed by the Government and it was signed by a number of very senior civil servants. It was quite clear from that document that it was anticipated that the news agency would deal with "hot" news. That action of the Government was somewhat different from the statement made by the then Minister who piloted the Bill through the Dáil. The fact is that the agency to the knowledge and with the consent of the Government was given the power to deal with "hot" news. When this present Government came into office, we had to deal with the situation as we found it. The news agency was operating a news service, and a fair amount of public money had been spent in building up that organisation. Hopes had been aroused that it would be a success and in spite of the fact that a number of members of our Party, and the Party as a whole, were against the organisation proposed for the news agency, we were determined that we would do everything we could to make it a success if it could be made a success.

I encouraged the directors to get into contact with foreign news agencies and to try and link up with them so that there would be an exchange of Irish news for foreign news in order that we might have a good chance of doing what it was hoped would be done by the agency, which was to give foreign newspapers Irish sources of Irish news rather than have Irish news collected and disseminated by foreign news agencies.

Last night Deputy Cosgrave recommended that we should close the whole thing down. He said it was a complete failure. I am not in a position to confirm what Deputy Cosgrave said. Certain contacts have been made by the news agency which in the course of time will help it to fulfil the functions of conveying Irish news abroad and help it also to earn some cash.

It was at my urgent request that the chairman of the news agency opened up negotiations with an American news agency (the International News Service) in order to make contact whereby they would get news from that service, and that service would be under contract to take Irish news and deliver it to American newspapers. That contract was signed last year. The result will be that the Irish News Agency will get the service of the International News Service, and at the same time the International News Service will deliver to the New York desk so many words per day given to it by the Irish News Agency. Similarly, exchange contracts have been made with Press agencies in France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain and with certain other news agencies. I have no means yet of knowing what exactly the news agency's balance sheets will reveal next year or in the years ahead. When the exchange contract between the news agency and the International News Service—the American news agency—is in operation for some months we shall be able to see how the arrangement works out.

Deputy MacBride made one very true statement to-night and that is, that every question asked about the news agency in this House and every statement made about it postpones the day when it will earn a profit. For that reason I should have preferred to see the present organisation much further away from, and independent of, Government and Government Departments. However, we had not to deal with a clean sheet of paper. We took over an organisation and it was up to the Minister who had responsibility to the Dáil for it to do the best he could with the organisation that was there. One of the things that one learns in life is that too much chopping and changing is bad and that it is sometimes better to make the best use of an organisation that is not 100 per cent. perfect than to spend too much time and energy on perfecting a new organisation.

I took over what I candidly said in this House I did not believe to be the best type of organisation to do the work which every Irishman would like to see done, but our predecessors had organised it on that basis and it was up to us to make it a success. I have tried to tell the House that the agency has been successful in getting contracts with foreign agencies. It has been successful in getting items of Irish news into the continental and British and American papers. I hope it will be still further successful in that respect. I hope, when the main Estimate is before the House, to discuss the matter more fully. The members can make up their minds at that time, after hearing every aspect of the case, whether they want to see the news agency go ahead or brought to an end.

When the time came for the election of new directors or the reappointment of existing directors to the board, in order to give the agency every chance and so that nobody could possibly allege that politics were being played in connection with the news agency, I reappointed the four directors who were available for reappointment. These were men who believed in the news agency and who had experience of its difficulties. I reappointed them and gave them every possible help I could to ensure the success of the agency.

Deputy Cogan referred to competition with journalists. Before Christmas he raised the matter of a statement which was made by the National Union of Journalists to the effect that the livelihood of the working journalist was being jeopardised by the activities of the news agency. I promised Deputy Cogan then that we would try to settle that dispute with the board of the news agency and the National Union of Journalists. Very shortly afterwards the members of the board met the members of the executive of this union and came to complete agreement. Shortly after the meeting an announcement was published in the Press to the effect that complete agreement had been reached between the Union and the Irish News Agency.

Deputy Dunne referred to a gross error which was made by an employee of the news agency in connection with an official of Limerick City. I answered a question put by Deputy Dunne during the year on that matter and explained how the error occurred. I also pointed out that the official of Limerick City who had been misrepresented had been approached by the officers of the Irish News Agency who expressed their regret to him. This officer of the City of Limerick said: "The Irish News Agency have apologised and I am satisfied that it was not really their fault. They have since acted in a most gentlemanly manner in regard to the matter and I am quite satisfied." He was the one man who had a grievance about that particular story.

Deputy Cosgrave raised the question of two offices—one in Fleet Street and the other in Grafton Street. He said that the news agency started in Fleet Street and then went to premises in Grafton Street. That is not the actual position. The news agency started in Grafton Street. They then found that the premises were too small to enable them to expand into the photographic business and they took premises in a basement in Fleet Street. Although those premises are located in a basement they are quite healthy, being well-ventilated and well-lighted though not palatial. I think that they are functionally good for the work the news agency has to do and that they are very centrally situated.

They are situated close to the newspaper offices and to the offices of a number of journalists who work in that area. Deputy Cosgrave asks how many people are employed by the news agencies. There are at headquarters in Dublin, including typists, messengers and everybody else, 43; in London, nine; and in Belfast, two. That is 54 in all, including the officers of the organisation, typists and messengers. Deputy Cosgrave asks whether news agency matter was availed of by foreign correspondents. News agency material, of course, is, as I said, sent out to the various foreign agencies I enumerated at the beginning of my speech. It is also available for correspondents here and for correspondents of foreign papers. Of course, if a foreign news agency is looking for a report, I do not suppose that they get it very quickly if the Irish News Agency can sell it themselves. I think it is a source of grievance with some foreign news agencies that the Irish News Agency do not do all their work for them. Deputy Cosgrave said that there was no real justification for continuing this expenditure. I wish Deputy Cosgrave had expressed that opinion before the news agency started and got the matter more thoroughly thrashed out than it seems to have been by the previous Government.

In the debate on the Bill here in this House everybody thought that the scheme had been thoroughly examined and that it had the unanimous support of all the sections of which the last Government was composed. We are discovering now regarding this news agency as in regard to a number of other matters that there was in fact no real unity amongst the Government and that they could not do very effective work. I have to come here to-night looking for £20,000 simply because the last Government did not make the provision that the directors asked them for. When the Estimates for the present financial year were being prepared the directors pointed out that £37,000 would be required to keep the news agency in being for the financial year. The previous Government however in spite of the fact that they were told that it would cost £37,000, made provision in the Estimates only for £25,000. We have to meet the deficit on the working year and it is for that deficit I am asking the Dáil to provide by this Supplementary Estimate.

Vote agreed to.

Vote reported and agreed to.