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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 10 Jul 1952

Vol. 133 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate—River Moy Flooding.

To-day I asked the Minister for Finance if he is aware that a number of men were engaged very recently in dumping stones in the River Moy at Coolcronan, Foxford, thereby causing increased flooding of lands in this area while at the same time engineers from his Department are engaged on survey work; and, if so, what steps he proposes to take to have all these obstructions removed.

The reply I got from the Parliamentary Secretary was as follows:—

"I have no information in regard to the dumping of stones in the River Moy at Coolcronan, Foxford, Mayo.

If the Deputy will send particulars to my office I will have the matter investigated. I would point out, however, that the Commissioners of Public Works would have no power to interfere unless the dumped stones constituted a weir or other like construction which might cause flooding of land without the occupiers' consent."

I felt obliged to ask your permission to have this debated on the adjournment because I regard this as a very important matter and also because I regard the Parliamentary Secretary's reply as wholly unsatisfactory. The first thing I note from his reply is that he shows complete ignorance of what is happening in the way of certain obstructions in the River Moy placed there by a certain individual or individuals. The Parliamentary Secretary was in my constituency very recently and I had the opportunity of hearing him addressing political meetings at various centres. On one occasion, at Knockmore, I heard him dealing at length with the problem of the drainage of the Moy. Listening to the Parliamentary Secretary then, one got the impression that he was very conversant with everything connected with the Moy and the grave flooding problem which existed there. However, we find that in his answer to me to-day in the House he now admits that he does not know that no fewer than ten stone walls have been erected across the Moy at Coolcronan, Foxford. I am not relying on hearsay. I assure the Parliamentary Secretary of that. I have not come here to exaggerate in any way. I have come to put the position very clearly and bluntly to him.

First of all I will refresh the Parliamentary Secretary's memory of the very big protest meeting held at Shraheen, Foxford, some time ago in connection with the flooding of the Moy. A very big number attended. It was what I might describe as a mass meeting at Shraheen Hall, Foxford, of tenants from a widely spread area which is affected by the flooding of the Moy. There were representatives of political Parties there—public men, Deputies and county councillors from North and South Mayo. The whole question was dealt with and as a result of that meeting a deputation was arranged with the present Parliamentary Secretary and we duly met in his office. We went into the question of the drainage of the Moy and pointed out that a number of obstructions were placed in the river, dumped stones and walls. The walls I referred to project 1½ feet to 2 feet over the water, are 2 feet in width and extend right across almost closing the channel. In his office on that occasion, I well remember —and I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary does too—this matter was debated. An official or number of officials of his Department assured us that they had visited the area as a result of a previous protest from Foxford and failed to observe any obstructions in the River Moy. I am satisfied that either the official or officials who made that statement never visited the area or if they did that they deliberately lied to the deputation and tried to mislead us because the truth is that these obstructions have been placed in the river for some time past.

I am not relying on hearsay. I have seen them for myself in recent times and during the last month or five weeks I have seen more walls erected there. I questioned some of the people of the neighbourhood of Coolcronan and spoke to people who were actually engaged on the work of placing obstructions in the river. They got their week's wages and were employed for about a fortnight. Having seen the structures I want to assure the Parliamentary Secretary that they consist of very solid firm walls projecting, at the time I visited the area, from 1½ to 2 feet over the water. As a layman, I can say truthfully and honestly that they are bound to increase the flooding of the lands adjoining the Moy and are also bound to flood certain houses in the Rinanny and Foxford areas. In the ordinary way, before these obstructions were placed there at all, houses in Rinanny and the adjoining villages have been flooded. The water actually came in the doors to the people. Cattle had to be driven off the land and crops were lost and these new obstructions will increase the flooding. To think that the Parliamentary Secretary who is listening to me now went to North Mayo, went from town to town, from fair to fair and from church gate to church gate——

If the Parliamentary Secretary says he was at no fair meeting, then I accept that, but he went from church gate to church gate and professed to know about the drainage of the Moy. A survey staff is employed at present on the Moy and within a couple of hundred yards of where they had been operating these obstructions were placed in the river. I can only come to the conclusion to which other people have come: that these obstructions have been put there with the knowledge and permission of the Parliamentary Secretary. I am inclined to think that certain individuals who seem to be very much in the good books of the Party at present in power have been allowed to do this because my own opinion is that the staff employed on surveying the Moy at this point must be aware that these obstructions were put there.

When you consider that workmen had been employed on the river for a fortnight while their neighbours were employed rowing boats up and down the river carrying engineers it could not possibly happen that these engineers would not be aware of these obstructions being there. At least that is the conclusion that I come to. The Parliamentary Secretary may smile about these things, but, to me, it is no laughing matter. Many people are forced to emigrate because their lands are flooded all along the banks of the Moy, and I think that we have a serious responsibility to see that action is taken in the matter. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to take steps at once.

To-day the Parliamentary Secretary told me that I should submit this matter to him in writing, that we should deal with it, if you like, behind closed doors. I am not prepared to do that. This is not a matter to be dealt with behind closed doors or anywhere like that. There should be no hole and corner work about it. This is the place to deal with it. If the Parliamentary Secretary is desirous to cover up the fact that some privileged individuals can get away with these things and that I should be a party to it, I can assure him that I have no intention of doing that. This is a matter of grave public importance, and it was absolutely necessary that I should deal with it. I can assure the Parliamentary Secretary that I have no intention of dealing with it behind closed doors.

The Parliamentary Secretary, in his reply, also said: "I would point out, however, that the Commissioners of Public Works would have no power to interfere unless the dumped stones constituted a weir or other like construction which might cause flooding of land without the occupiers' consent." I want to assure the Parliamentary Secretary that these obstructions which have been placed there recently and also some time ago will definitely cause increased flooding and increased damage to the lands and to the homes of the occupiers concerned. My honest opinion is that, having got away with it, the particular gentleman concerned will continue to put down further walls. As no one is trying to prevent it and it is possible to do so, others may engage in the same work and put down additional walls. It is rather strange that this should be allowed to go on.

I cannot understand what is the game behind it. I do know, however, that it is most unfair to the occupiers right across the belt of country from the Sligo border, in Thumgesh, Killasser, Toomore, Straide, Muckanagh, Cloongee, Rinanny, Shraheen, Knock-more, Lahardane and several other areas who are in possession of small uneconomic holdings that, for a greater part of the year, their land should be flooded and that a Government which claims to be Republican should allow this to happen. While foreigners and aliens who fish on the River Moy are allowed to carry out this work, these small farmers living on the Moy whose fathers and grandfathers supported Michael Davitt in the land war are being driven out as a result of the flooding and this blackguardly work.

The people who represented that area of North Mayo before I came here, as far as I know, never opened their mouths in this House about this matter, although they claimed to be great Republicans and were men of different political views. I regard this whole thing as a very serious matter. The Parliamentary Secretary admitted that it was his predecessor, Deputy Donnellan, who arranged for the survey on the River Moy. I was present in the House when he admitted it.

He did not get sanction from the Minister for Finance for it. It remained for the Fianna Fáil Minister for Finance to sanction it.

So many lies have been told by Deputy Moran and other Fianna Fáil Deputies——

That remark must be withdrawn.

I withdraw it. There has been so much misrepresentation by Deputy Moran and others in connection with this matter that I feel it is my duty to bring the matter to light. I want the Parliamentary Secretary to get busy on this at once. If he wants proof of the matter, I am quite prepared to give it if he communicates with me. He seems to suggest in his reply that when officers of his Department visited this area previously some people misled them. I can assure him that there are no people in that area prepared to mislead them when it is a question of leaving obstructions on the River Moy with the exception of the people interested in the salmon fishery, and they are not, and never were, friends of this country. My interest is in the small tenant farmers of that area. If the Parliamentary Secretary doubts what I am saying, if he communicates with me I will take him or any officer of his Department to the place if he gives me reasonable notice and show where these obstructions have been placed across the River Moy. I will bring him to the people who are actually engaged in this work and who admit that they got paid for doing that work. They got their weekly wages and that is proof enough.

I made inquiries into this matter when I heard rumours of this and I found that feeling was running very high when the tenants saw this happening, because they knew it would mean the loss of their hay, turf and oats, that they would all be swept away by the river. It is no laughing matter for men working with their spade or loy for five or six months of the year to lose the whole lot overnight. It is, therefore, a matter that I think the Parliamentary Secretary should regard as extremely urgent and take action at once. So far as I am concerned, I will give him the fullest co-operation if he agrees to visit the place himself or to anybody belonging to his Department.

The Parliamentary Secretary is entitled to ten minutes to reply.

To-day Deputy O'Hara addressed a question to the Minister for Finance regarding obstructions in the River Moy, which I answered. The question was as follows:—

"To ask the Minister for Finance if he is aware that a number of men were engaged very recently in dumping stones in the River Moy at Coolcronan, Foxford, thereby causing increased flooding of lands in this area while at the same time engineers from his Department are engaged on survey work; and, if so, what steps he proposes to take to have all these obstructions removed?"

I thought I gave him a very satisfactory reply. I said:—

"I have no information in regard to the dumping of stones in the River Moy at Coolcronan, Foxford. If the Deputy will send particulars to my office I will have the matter investigated. I would point out that the Commissioners of Public Works would have no power to interfere unless the dumped stones constituted a weir or other like obstruction which might cause flooding of land without the owner's consent."

Did I not give you four days' notice of the question?

I thought that was a satisfactory reply in view of what had been already explained to a deputation from Mayo in my office on the 26th October last. Deputy O'Hara, however, put this supplementary question:—

"Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that eight men were employed on this work about a month ago, that is on the work of erecting walls across the River Moy? I should like to remind him that I have seen these obstructions myself. I have spoken to the men who have been engaged on that work and they admitted having erected walls across the River Moy at the point mentioned. I would remind the Parliamentary Secretary that these stones and walls have been dumped in the River Moy and that in consequence a number of houses will be flooded. What steps does the Parliamentary Secretary propose to take to remedy the situation?"

To that I replied:—

"As I said in my reply, I will have the matter investigated——"

which implied, in my opinion, that I would not require Deputy O'Hara, in view of what he had stated, to send in a statement. I added:—

"I hope that when the investigation is being carried out, the people who are making the complaints will co-operate and that it will not be like the previous occasion when they did not co-operate."

This is nothing very new. As was pointed out in the reply to the question, the commissioners have no power to intervene in this matter unless it is a question of the construction of a weir or interference with an existing weir. Section 47 of the Drainage Act of 1945 bears that out, because it states:—

"It shall not be lawful for any person (other than the Electricity Supply Board), without or otherwise than in accordance with the consent of the commissioners, to erect, enlarge or alter any weir or other like construction in a watercourse where such erection, enlargement or alteration might cause flooding of any land."

Now this is not a weir, and consequently——

There is a good stone wall.

There is a stone wall across the river.

I did not interrupt the Deputy very much when he was speaking. I wish to point out that the River Moy, at this point, is not in an existing drainage district, and is, therefore, not under the control of the local authority or the Commissioners of Public Works. This case came up before in July, 1949. A certain gentleman from the Foxford area wrote to the Minister for Finance saying that a certain gentleman had deposited stones at various points in the River Moy, contrary to the provisions of the Arterial Drainage Act, 1945, and asking that steps be taken to compel him to remove the stones. On investigation by an engineer of the Commissioners of Public Works in September, 1949, it was found that some stones had been put in the river, but not in such quantity or positions as to cause flooding of any land and that their deposition did not accordingly constitute an offence against the provisions of the Act.

Was there not a complaint? This is an attempt to cover up.

There is no covering off. The gentleman who complained was duly informed on the 18/10/49. So far as lack of co-operation is concerned, I wish to refute the charge that has been made here against the engineers in my office that they deliberately told lies to the deputation. I resent that very strongly. They told no lies whatsoever. They told the truth and I believe they told the truth. They did not state that there was no obstruction; they stated that there were stones placed in the river but that they did not constitute an obstruction to the extent of being a weir. No such statements, as is alleged, were made by the engineer, who was the assistant chief engineer in the Office of Public Works. When he went to the man who wrote the letter, this man, according to himself, had business to attend to and he could not afford the time to go away from his business to point out where the stones had been deposited. He sent him to another man and that man, whose name I can give, denied that any stones had been put there at all. He directed him to another man. He met that man on the road going into the town of Foxford. He said he did not have the time to point out the stones but the stones were put in. The only person who co-operated with the engineer on that occasion and brought him to the place where the stones were put in was the very man against whom the complaint was made.

I think there was nothing wrong in asking Deputy O'Hara to-day to send in a statement to the office, and I would have it investigated, but Deputy O'Hara did not take my word that I would do that. He disbelieved my word that I would act in that way. He wants for petty propaganda, personal propaganda——

There is no petty propaganda about it——

——in order to rehabilitate himself with the dwindling supporters of his Party in North Mayo to bring this up here on the adjournment. I shall take no further action in this except on condition——

Are you not going to get them to remove the stones?

——except on the condition that the Deputy will send in that statement signed by the persons who said they put the stones there. We have had engineers in Mayo and they have special instructions regarding anything of this kind. I trust them to carry out their duties fairly and conscientiously.

Are the walls going to be removed?

The walls will be removed if the law allows it. I am not going to act like certain people who said that the Moy would be drained first and then told the people in the Suck area that it would get priority after the Corrib. The survey of the Moy is on now.

Thanks to the efforts of the inter-Party Government.

I can give this assurance to Deputy O'Hara. If he sends in that statement signed by those people and if they are prepared to stand over it and point out where the stones are, I shall have the matter investigated.

I will point it out.

But if he adopts an obstinate attitude and disbelieves my word I can be equally as obstinate as any Deputy in this House.

We have it all now. In other words, you are going to let the people of Foxford down now. So long as you won the by-election you do not mind.

We would win another one to-morrow because we told the people the truth.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until Friday, 11th July, 1952, at 10.30 a.m.

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