asked the Minister for Local Government whether, in view of the uncertainty and hardship caused to applicants and to builders, due to the increased interest rates on small dwellings loan applications, he will now make a statement as to the measures he proposes to take to alleviate this hardship.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Increased Interest Rates.
asked the Minister for Local Government whether he is now in a position to indicate whether he proposes to authorise housing authorities to grant loans under the Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Acts at the former rate of interest where applications for loans had been submitted prior to the recent increase in interest rates.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he will state whether his attention has been drawn to the statement made by Deputy Gallagher at a meeting in Dublin on Sunday, 2nd November, to the effect that his view was that all cases where commitments were entered into by persons seeking loans under the Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Acts before the recent rate increase should be accommodated at the old rate, and that he was satisfied that the Government would do its best to see that these were honoured at the old rate of interest; and if, in view of the extreme difficulty in which many persons find themselves because of the compulsion to take urgent decisions, he will state what the Government's intentions are in the matter.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 59, 60 and 61 together.
The information sought in the circular letter of the 21st ultimo as to the amounts represented by local authorities' undertakings in respect of binding commitments of prospective borrowers has in some cases either not yet been furnished or has not been furnished in sufficient detail to enable a decision to be reached as to how far concessions are possible. Where sufficiently detailed information has not been furnished the local authorities are being asked to clarify the position further and to classify the commitments. I recognise that this may in some cases involve rather lengthy investigation and I have, therefore, decided, with the concurrence of the Minister for Finance, to consider first those commitments of which there can be no doubt and to admit as a charge against loans from the Local Loans Fund at the old rate of interest the amount of such loans comprised of proposed advances to individual borrowers in respect of which mortgage deeds had been completed before the 6th October whether such advances remain to be made either in whole or in part.
It is the practice of the Dublin County Council to warn prospective borrowers that they could not assume that advances to be subsequently made to them would bear interest at a particular rate. Nevertheless I feel that it is equitable to extend the decision in favour of borrowers in other areas to those similarly circumstanced in Dublin County, and this will accordingly be done.
Is the Minister aware that in respect of some cases—in Dublin County, at any rate—where the mortgage deeds were not completed, the persons involved have received notification from the law agent giving them 14 days to complete the deeds on the basis that the rate to be charged will be £5 15s. per cent.? Is the Minister aware that these are cases in which the position is so advanced that the cheques are actually written and are available for issue by the county council? Will the Minister take these cases into consideration and will he give them the same treatment as he now suggests will be given in cases where the mortgage deeds were completed before the 6th October?
I have no responsibility for any action which the county council proposes to take in a matter of this sort. I suggest the Deputy should make his representations to that quarter.
Is the Minister aware that, arising out of the communication sent by him to the local authorities, the Dublin County Council has taken, through its law agent, action of the type I have described, and that persons whose cases were so fully advanced that their cheques were actually written in the county council offices were given 14 days in which to put their names to mortgage deeds involving them in an increased rate of £5 15s. per cent.? Does the Minister not consider that these cases are absolutely on all four with those in which the mortgage deeds were completed before the 6th October? Does he not realise that the position in which these people are placed, and in which they are being urgently pressed to sign certain mortgages, if they are not going to lose certain rights, flows from his action and from the circular letter issued by him to local authorities?
The action which the Dublin County Council has taken, if it is such as has been described by the Deputy, did not flow from any circular issued by the Minister for Local Government. Secondly, if the law agent acting on behalf of the Dublin County Council is pressing anybody unduly or harshly, that is the responsibility of the Dublin County Council, and I again suggest that the Deputy should address his remarks to them.
Does the Minister's decision include cases where the county council have notified applicants that they have approved of loans, although the actual documents may not have been completed? If approval has been given, even on the basis of a partial advance, does the Minister include these cases?
Am I to understand from the Minister's reply that it is only in these cases where the mortgage deeds have been completed that the local housing authority will be permitted to advance money at the old rate of interest? Does that purport to exclude from the benefits of the old rate of interest all those persons who had their applications before the local housing authority on a date prior to the date on which the rate of interest was officially increased?
Let me deal first with Deputy Norton's supplementary question. The reply which I have given does not mean that, only in those cases in which a mortgage deed had been completed, the benefit of the old rate of interest would be given.
Completed by what date?
It does not matter.
The Minister said the 6th October.
May I be permitted, without this sort of senseless interruption, to reply to the serious question put to me by Deputy Norton?
Thank you.
I am afraid I shall have to repeat myself. I said the reply which I had given did not imply that only those cases in which a mortgage deed had been completed would receive favourable consideration. I did say that if it were possible by reason of the fact that commitments were entered into and the mortgages completed, to allow people to secure the advantage of the old local rate. The position in regard to the other cases is more difficult. We shall have to await the arrival of particulars from the local authorities to enable us to place those cases in their appropriate category and to satisfy ourselves that there was a firm commitment before the 6th October.
Will the Minister say, when he gets the information which is outstanding from the local authorities in respect of the other cases, that he will deal with those cases in the order in which he gets the information, or whether he proposes to hold up a decision until all the other local authorities furnish the information?
I am not in a position to say on a purely administrative matter of this sort.
Does the Minister realise that these cases involve a number of people in a difficult dilemma —that the absence of a decision places them in a dilemma? Will the Minister endeavour to expedite a decision in these cases?
There has been no undue delay on the part of the Minister for Local Government or the Minister for Finance in regard to these cases. We are quite sympathetic in regard to the position of those people, but at the same time we have to safeguard the Exchequer and the general body of the taxpayers. Therefore, despite our sympathy, we must have full particulars of the cases before we can give a comprehensive decision in the matter.
Having regard to the fact that a number of people are very seriously concerned as to their financial position arising out of the applications they made for loans under the Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Act and that many of them do not know now whether they can proceed to purchase houses under the Act at the new rate of interest, would the Minister endeavour to have these cases dealt with as soon as the information is supplied by each housing authority rather than hold up the matter for a decision until all the information required has been received?
I shall bring that suggestion to the attention of the Minister for Local Government. As I have said, I am not prepared to give an answer which would bind the Minister for Local Government to pursue a certain administrative procedure.
Would the Minister say when the Minister for Local Government will be available to take cognisance of the type of cases that I have put before the Minister to-day?
The Minister for Local Government is more often available to this House than the Deputy was when he was Minister.
That is a great help to the people of County Dublin.
The Deputy had better try to bring his influence to bear on the Dublin County Council.
I am concerned with the people who have paid a deposit to a builder and have had their loans approved. I think it should be an easy matter for the Department of Local Government to deal with these cases, and that it should not take a great deal of time to get the information.
That does not seem to arise on the question.
May I ask the Minister whether a great deal of the attack on the national loan, which was brought indirectly into the field of loans for people under the Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Act, has had a very confusing result, so much so that he must be aware that in the City of Dublin, the Dublin Corporation had to have a notice inserted in the Press to the effect that all loans received by the corporation and approved at the 24th September would be given at the old rate, and that in other cases if there was any more money available it would be given at the same rate? May I take it that what the Minister is trying to explain to the House is that, in order to arrest any further development of this confusion which an attempt is being made to bring about——
That does not arise on this question. Question No. 62.