Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 5 Nov 1952

Vol. 134 No. 7

Private Deputies' Business. - Adjournment Debate—Appointment of Auxiliary Postman.

Mr. Palmer

This is the first time since I became a member of this House that I have considered it necessary to raise a matter on the Adjournment. No one can say that in this case I have done so to gain any political advantage, because the case in question is not really in my constituency. However, whenever I am approached by people from any quarter and when facts are made known to me which make me feel that an injustice has been done, I consider it my duty to take whatever action I feel is necessary in order that the injustice may be rectified, if possible. Even though I have no great hopes that this will be done, I consider it my duty to bring any matters of this kind to the notice of members of Dáil Éireann.

A vacancy existed for an auxiliary postman in Knocknagoshel, North Kerry, and, on 23rd June last, a man was appointed to fill the vacant post temporarily. This man had all the necessary qualifications for this post. He had five years' service in the Army during the emergency. He has five young children ranging in ages from six years to six months, and he, his wife and five children live in a labourer's cottage with his father. He was recommended, or should be recommended if there were justice, from the labour exchange.

It is known that in that area no other applicant could possibly qualify to that extent and I might remind the Minister that that is one of the necessary qualifications for an appointment to such a position. He was not only registered at the labour exchange but was drawing the highest sum in unemployment assistance from that exchange, so that he had the qualifications of his military service, his recommendation from the labour exchange, the fact that he was married with young children, and so forth and he was the man who was recommended, or should have been recommended if there was no outside force brought to bear on the postmaster for the area.

This man has carried out his duties efficiently and well since last June. He had all the necessary qualifications, but, lo and behold, he gets notice about a fortnight ago that his services would be terminated as from 1st November last and now a new man has come in. So far as I know, the man who has been appointed is 43 years of age and has a service medal awarded to him as from 7th July last. I want to point out that the question of a service medal does not arise so far as the qualifications necessary for appointment to the position of auxiliary postman or any other type of postman are concerned.

Mr. Killilea

A service medal for service where?

Mr. Palmer

You ought to know that yourself—for service from 1916 to 1921.

Mr. Killilea

And you hold that such men should not be entitled to any consideration?

Mr. Palmer

Wait until I develop my point. This man is 43 years of age. He was a member of Fianna Éireann for three months prior to July, 1921, just before the Truce, being then only 12 years of age. Are you going to compare the service of that youth at that time with the service of a man who served for five years in the Army during the emergency, a man who was willing to do his duty at any time in defence of his country? I should like to know whether the man appointed now applied for a service medal when the extension was granted by the Minister for Defence in the inter-Party Government when he should have applied for that medal before 31st January, 1950.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Surely the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is not responsible for that.

Mr. Palmer

I want to bring out a particular point in this connection. I do not suggest that the Minister would know this, but I just want to make the point that it is rather strange that just when this vacancy arose and an appointment was likely to be made this man should get a service medal on the 7th July last.

Mr. Killilea

That is a matter for another Minister.

Mr. Palmer

I will find it out all right. We are not finished with this yet. Do not worry about that. This man who was appointed has provided for his family with the exception of two the youngest of whom is ten years. If there is any justice in this country or any charity at all in our people, in our Ministers or in our Government, in considering two men, one with a young family and a splendid national service, the other with a grown family absolutely provided for and with no national service, surely the man with the national service and young family who was recommended by the labour exchange and by the postmaster for the area should be the man to get the post.

Mr. Killilea

Old I.R.A. men have given better service than other men.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

Not at 13 years.

Mr. Killilea

Read up the history of the Fianna.

Mr. Palmer

This Deputy caused trouble——

Mr. Killilea

Those unnational elements are blowing their horns.

Mr. Palmer

——here before by his interjections.

Mr. Killilea

I caused none.

Mr. Palmer

He will cause none as far as I am concerned. I am not even speaking as a member of my constituency. I speak only on behalf of justice.

Mr. Flynn

Why not let the other man speak for North Kerry, Deputy Lynch?

Mr. Palmer

Leave it there.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

These interruptions must cease.

Mr. Palmer

If you have any authority, Sir, order those dog-in-the-manger speakers to stop.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair has already ordered them to stop. If the Deputy would come to the point he might go on.

Mr. Palmer

I am coming to the point. The Minister did not answer the questions we asked. He said that part-time postman vacancies are filled from lists of persons supplied by employment exchanges—the man for whom I speak was already recommended by the labour exchange—and from applicants already in temporary employment—the man for whom I speak was temporarily employed since June, and did his duty efficiently and well. I do not want to say too much, I do not care what Government is in office, but I always believe in decency and honesty in public life and that positions should be given in order of merit.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

On to-day's Order Paper, I had a question to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs seeking certain information as to the methods employed in filling the position of postman in Knocknagoshel in County Kerry. I am not satisfied with the reply, inasmuch as it does not give the information I sought in the question. The only information I can glean from the reply is that the person is 43 years of age. On the same Order Paper I had a question to the Minister for Defence asking when the service medal was issued to the applicant. We are aware that, in the filling of appointments, certain rights are given—and rightly so—to men who served either in the emergency forces or during the pre-Truce period.

In this instance the age of the appointee speaks for itself. This man was only 13 years of age towards the end of the hostilities of the 1916-1921 period. That fact, and in particular the fact that the man did not receive the medal in sufficient time to qualify him for a special allowance indicate, we suggest to the House, that the medal was given so that the present Government would have an alibi to fall back upon in making an appointment that is purely political, and in leaving out of consideration the fact that the other applicant was a young man who was acting in a temporary capacity, who had been for five years a member of the Defence Forces, and was discharged with a first-class discharge from his commanding officer, who was married, who was recommended by the postmaster and by the labour exchange, and who is homeless—he resides with his father in a cottage. I said that he is married; he is also the father of a family of five, whose ages range from 12 months to six years.

Mr. Flynn

I suggest that this is an attempt to waste the time of the House.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

Why?

Mr. Flynn

That statement is a repetition of what Deputy Palmer already said. Deputy McEllistrim represents North Kerry, and it would be relevant that he should speak.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

The point with which I was dealing when I was so rudely interrupted by the Fianna Fáil member for South Kerry, the reject returned home——

Mr. Flynn

As for that old ex-Black and Tan there——

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

The man for whom we speak lives with his father in a labourer's cottage and gave five years' service in the National Army. Now he has been turned out of the position he occupies in the service of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs so that a political appointment might be made.

This appointment, to the minds of many members of the House, stinks of political prejudice inasmuch as we are informed in a separate reply that the appointee was given a service medal although he was between 12 and 13 years at the time when active service was necessary to qualify for such recompense from the State. It is significant that in the Minister's reply he states that the appointee could not qualify for a special allowance under the Act. It is a scandalous thing that a young man, the father of a young family, residing with his father, in an acting capacity in that post and with no black mark against him, should be turned out so as to create a job for another man. We are told by the Minister that he is not in a position to furnish the House with the details we ask regarding the qualifications of each candidate for the position. Therefore we availed of the opportunity of the Adjournment to bring the matter before the House so that it would be properly aired and to voice in the strongest possible manner our abhorrence of the methods employed in making this appointment. I think that to resort to a second Department to provide an alibi for this action is nothing but pure political jobbery.

Mr. McEllistrim rose.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It is customary to give the Minister ten minutes to reply but if the Minister gives way I will call Deputy McEllistrim.

Mr. McEllistrim

The question of the appointment of an auxiliary postman at Knocknagoshel, County Kerry, has been raised. I happen to know something about it. From my knowledge of the district and of the people living there I am satisfied that the man who was appointed is suitable in every respect. He is a married man with a family. To my knowledge, he has been doing temporary and holiday duty as postman in that district for the past 15 years. I am sure he did the work to the satisfaction of everybody. He is a man with a good national record and, for his services in Fianna Éireann he holds a national service medal. I am surprised to find Deputy Palmer, Deputy Lynch and Deputy D.J. O'Sullivan raising this matter in the Dáil. Presumably it is due to the fact that another candidate who happens to be the secretary of the local Fine Gael club, was not successful. I believe that the Minister made the right appointment in this case.

Mr. Palmer

I object to that remark about the secretary of the local Fine Gael club. We have no information about the other man.

Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (Mr. Childers)

Deputy Palmer spoke about decency and honour in public life. I am glad to say that since I had the honour of being made Minister there have been virtually no complaints in regard to the appointment of postmen. I have a responsibility for ensuring justice. I am satisfied that I have exercised that responsibility with decency and honour in all the cases that have come to my notice and in all the appointments I have made.

I think it is most unpleasant to debate the relative merits of candidates on occasions such as this and I do not propose to do it. As the Deputy knows well, regulations in regard to Army service and I.R.A. service were made about 1946. These regulations have been left unchanged by the last Government, by the Government before that and by the present Government. Regard is had to the comparative means of candidates, to their general suitability and to the comparative length of service of the candidates concerned—a matter to which Deputy Palmer does not seem to have adverted. He chose to give his own views on the means of the candidates. He implied that there is no particular honour in being a member of Fianna Éireann. He implied that for a young lad of 12 or 13 years——

Mr. Palmer

For a period of only three months.

Mr. Childers

——to carry out the responsibilities, on active service, of a member of Fianna Éireann is something so trifling that it can be disregarded compared with Army service —all of which matters are highly contentious. He did not have regard to the comparative period of service in the Department of the postal service of the candidates in question. Apparently he had no regard to that matter at all.

I have the ultimate responsibility for this appointment, and I am satisfied that I made it in the public interest. If Deputy Palmer and Deputy D.J. O'Sullivan chose to wallow in ideas of corruption and suggest that there was some ridiculous conspiracy between me, the Minister for Defence and the person appointed in regard to the date on which the candidate received his military service medal then I cannot stop them. I think it is loathsome because it implies that there are three persons in this connection who are corrupt. The Army Pensions Board designates a certain person, a referee, to award these military service certificates. He does so in an impartial manner. He is not interfered with by the Minister. I do not know whether Deputy Palmer is making these allegations of corruption because, in some way or other, the last Minister for Defence interfered with the award of military service certificates in order to secure the employment of postmen: I have no such knowledge and I am not making the allegation against him. However, on behalf of the present Minister for Defence—to whom, actually, this question should have been addressed and who would be well able to answer it in this House—I want to say that the suggestion of connivance between two Ministers and a member of Fianna Éireann is revolting.

I desire to say again that I appointed this person in the public interest.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.55 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 6th November, 1952.