Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 15 Dec 1955

Vol. 153 No. 11

Vote 50—Industry and Commerce.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Norton)

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1956, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, including certain Services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain Subsidies and sundry Grants-in-Aid.

The provision in the current year's Estimates for grants to An Foras Tionscal, the body charged with the administration of the Undeveloped Areas Act, 1952, is £1,00,000. An Foras Tionscal has now indicated that an additional sum of £35,000 will be required to meet grant payments in respect of approved projects. It will be possible to meet this additional expenditure from savings on other subheads of the Vote for Industry and Commerce and accordingly, the Supplementary Estimate now before the House is for a token sum of £10.

When the Vote for Industry and Commerce was introduced earlier this year there was some criticism of the fact that the provision for grants to An Foras Tionscal showed a reduction from the provision of £125,000 which appeared in the Estimates for the previous year. However, as I pointed out then, there is of necessity a considerable time lag between the approval of projects and the payment of grants by An Foras Tionscal as that organisation very wisely insists that applicants must spend a reasonable amount of their own money on factory premises and plant before the grant is paid. The actual payments made in any financial year do not reflect the volume of industrial projects approved in that year as it may take up to two or three years from the time when a project is approved in principle by An Foras Tionscal for the promoters to develop it to the stage where grants become payable. Owing to the time lag An Foras Tionscal experiences considerable difficulty in estimating its requirements on an annual basis, as instanced by the fact that while last year's Estimates provided for an expenditure of £125,000, grants paid amounted to only £68,000. The excess of £35,000 over the £100,000 provided in this year's Estimates arises from the fact that more rapid progress was made by the promoters on a number of projects than was anticipated due, among other things, to more favourable conditions for building.

A more reliable guide to the progress being made in the development of industry in the undeveloped areas is the volume of projects approved by An Foras Tionscal and an examination of the figures for the period since the establishment of An Foras Tionscal in January, 1952, reveals an encouraging trend. In the period of 15 months from January, 1952 to 31st March, 1953, grants amounting to £104,855 were approved; in the following financial year grants approved amounted to £159,000; for the year ended 31st March, 1955 the figure was £232,800; and in the current year to date An Foras Tionscal has indicated its willingness to make grants amounting to £542,293. The total amount of grants approved by An Foras Tionscal since its establishment in January, 1952, is £1,038,948 which is slightly more than half the sum of £2,000,000 which, under the Undeveloped Areas Act, 1952, may be expended on this service in the period of seven years from 1st January, 1952.

A number of the projects may not come to fruition for two or three years and some unforeseen circumstances might prevent some promoters from putting their plans into effect but nevertheless I feel that the figures I have quoted afford grounds for hoping that the problem of siting industries in the undeveloped areas, which had previously proved intractable, is now on its way to solution.

The projects approved by An Foras Tionscal represent a total capital investment of the order of £3,000,000 and but for the inducements offered to industrialists under the Undeveloped Areas Act, very little of this investment would have been located in the undeveloped areas. There are at present 22 units operating in the undeveloped areas, which were assisted by An Foras Tionscal. They cover a wide field of activity and include woollen yarn, cotton condenser yarn, doubled cotton yarn, berets, woven labels, ladies' garments, narrow width textile fabrics, ceramic tiles, electrical accessories and other plastic manufactures, clay drain pipes, tipping gears for lorries, tyre retreading and locks.

Apart from the benefits which these undertakings confer on the areas where they are located, they are contributing to the economic well-being of the country and in at least one case a useful export trade has been developed. A number of other projects are in various stages of development throughout the undeveloped areas, but it would not be proper for me to give details regarding them at this stage as this would involve the disclosure of the intentions of private concerns. I might mention, however, that in a number of these projects there is reason to believe that there are good prospects for the development of an export trade.

I understand from An Foras Tionscal that there is a steady flow of inquiries regarding the facilities available under the Undeveloped Areas Act and, while it would be premature at this stage to assess the results of the efforts which are being made to attract outside industrialists to this country, it is a reasonable assumption that the undeveloped areas will share in the results. In the circumstances it would not be unreasonable to hope that the recent increase in the volume of projects approved by An Foras Tionscal will be maintained.

Mr. Lemass

If the matter had been brought before us at the time the Estimate was brought before the House it would not now be necessary.

Mr. Norton

It would be necessary because it is still not sufficient.

Mr. Lemass

As far as we are concerned we are glad to note that the policy enshrined in the Undeveloped Areas Act of 1952 is working out, as it was hoped it would at that time. When the Undeveloped Areas Act was before the House, there were some Deputies who had doubts as to whether its provisions would result in the flow of industrial activity to the western seaboard counties. It is through that Act that the flow began in a weak and undecided way in the months immediately after the legislation became effective. I expressed the opinion then that it would take some years before the effect of the Act would be felt and the figures given by the Minister to-day show that the effect is now being attained. Naturally, we who had the responsibility for submitting that legislation to the Dáil and of advocating that policy here and throughout the country are gratified by the outcome. There are, as the Minister said, some 20-odd industrial units operating in the western seaboard counties which would be located elsewhere, were it not for the assistance given by An Foras Tionscal. There are many more to come and I am quite sure if the policy of the Act is maintained and applied vigorously and intelligently by An Foras Tionscal that the unbalance which has marked industrial development of this country in the past will be negatived. The Minister need have no hesitation at any time in coming to as with proposals of this kind so long as they are aimed at the fulfilment of the policy of the Undeveloped Areas Act.

Mr. J. Lynch

Could the Minister say in respect of any industries which are in existence or in prospect what advantage has been taken of the provisions of the Act which assist the sending of operatives to countries abroad to acquire technical skill in different directions?

Mr. O'Leary

I would like to ask the Minister if it is true that manufacturers can come in from abroad and get all the money they like to go into the undeveloped areas——

Mr. Lemass

Not all they like.

Mr. O'Leary

——while local capital is waiting for industries to be started? Is the Minister going to give any help in these centres such as there are in the South of Ireland where people are putting up sums of £50,000 for industries and are anxious to get any chance to start an industry? It seems that everybody can go to the undeveloped areas and get all the money from the Government. Are local people who are prepared to put up capital in the South of Ireland going to get the same privilege and facilities? It seems to be all going to the West. In my own town where local capital has been subscribed up to the extent of £50,000 we are waiting for an industry to give employment. I would like some assurance from the Minister on that point, because the people interested in starting factories are awaiting an answer from the Minister.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That does not seem to have any connection with the Undeveloped Areas Act.

Mr. O'Leary

I would like to know what would be the Minister's views on that matter.

Mr. Norton

To deal with Deputy O'Leary's point first, I think it should be mentioned that the Undeveloped Areas Act was passed with, I think, the general approval of this House and there was then widespread recognition that it was only by offering these undeveloped areas special facilities as indicated in the Act that it would be possible to attract industries to these areas. If one reflects on the backward economic condition of the undeveloped areas down through the generations it will be seen that they have been starved of industries and it was with a view to encouraging industrialists to go there and establish industries to stop emigration from the areas and raise the standard of living of the areas that the Undeveloped Areas Act was passed with the general benediction of all Parties in the House.

It is true to say, of course, that if these special facilities were not available in the undeveloped areas, virtually no industries would go there because the natural tendency would be for industries to settle in the eastern and southern portions of the country and it is only through the instrumentality of the Undeveloped Areas Act that this tendency to get industries established in the West has been brought to the present degree of fruition. I think it is a good development. There is no use in talking about western areas and no use in sympathising with the endemic poverty there; there is no use in regretting the backwardness of these areas unless we are prepared to make some contribution towards the establishment of industries in these regions. It is for that reason that I think it was desirable that an Act of this kind should at least get the opportunity of letting us see what it could do. When one remembers that at least 50 per cent. of the industrial workers are employed in the Dublin area and that more than 50 per cent. of industrial production comes from the Dublin area, one gets some idea of how lopsided is the location of our industrial effort.

It was frankly recognised in the Dáil at that time that this was a special type of legislation designed to help these backward areas and, therefore, the giving of grants to industries which locate themselves in these areas is in accordance with the desire of this House and the decision of all Parties in the House. It is not a case, therefore, where a Minister is exercising any particular discretion in favour of one area as against another. The House definitely said that there was to be a bias in the granting of facilities to western areas and to areas which constitute the undeveloped areas generally. I am simply implementing the wish of the House in that respect. If there are towns in the rest of the country that desire to establish industries, facilities are available to them too. The towns concerned can supplement whatever local capital is raised with trade loan guarantees under which the State comes to the assistance of new industries by making money available to them under conditions which enable them to get that money at lower rates of interest than they would otherwise get it. Of course the State finance house, the Industrial Credit Corporation, is also available to invest in the establishment of industries which, in the opinion of the company, are soundly based and offer prospects of development.

So far as the question raised by Deputy Lynch is concerned, I have no detailed particulars as to what the practice is in respect of any of these new firms in the training of operatives, but looking at the list of new industries which have been established as a result of assistance given by An Foras Tionscal, I know personally many of them have sent operatives abroad either to England or elsewhere to acquire the necessary technical skill, and I think it would be generally recognised by all of them that where that skill can be more expeditiously acquired abroad or where a visit abroad for training would help in perfecting a skill already acquired, these firms have been encouraged by An Foras Tionscal and by the Department of Industry and Commerce to permit their operatives to train elsewhere so as to acquire the maximum degree of technical equipment in the personal sense.

So far as the operation of the Act is concerned, I am glad it was necessary to come back to the Dáil for a Supplementary Estimate and I hope that we will continue to indent heavily on the moneys made available by the Oireachtas to encourage the development of industries in these undeveloped areas. I am glad the Supplementary Estimate has been received as it has been received. I think on this question of aiding the establishment of industries in undeveloped areas there should be no two views on the matter. We should have a national policy which will not change with Governments, namely, that it is desirable to readjust the present lopsided industrial distribution in this country and to spread industries out as far as possible throughout the country and particularly in areas which have long been starved of industrial development.

Vote put and agreed to.

Vote reported and agreed to.