Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Apr 1956

Vol. 156 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Prisoners of War and Enemy Aliens Bill, 1956—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The purpose of the Bill is to provide the necessary legislation in relation to prisoners of war and enemy aliens so as to enable, so far as Ireland is concerned, effect to be given to and advantage taken of certain of the provisions of the Geneva Convention relative to the treatment of prisoners of war and of the Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war which were signed on behalf of Ireland at Geneva in December, 1949. The conventions had, earlier in that year, been drawn up at a diplomatic conference, at which this country was represented, convened at Geneva by the Swiss Federal Council.

The first mentioned, or Prisoners of War Convention, enumerates the categories of persons who, on falling into the power of the enemy, are prisoners of war and entitled to treatment as such. It regulates, in a most detailed manner, the treatment of prisoners of war under the headings of: (i) protection; (ii) conditions of captivity and internment (including quarters, food and clothing; hygiene and medical attention; religious, intellectual and physical activities; discipline; transfer; work; financial resources and communication with the exterior); (iii) relations with the authorities (including complaints and representations); (iv) penal and disciplinary sanctions; (v) termination of captivity.

The convention also provides for the institution and operation of national information bureaux and a central information agency for prisoners of war. It makes provision, as well, for the activities of relief societies, including religious organisations and the International Committee of the Red Cross, operating on behalf of prisoners of war.

The convention replaced in a revised and up-to-date form the 1929 Geneva Convention for the treatment of prisoners of war. It contains a number of novel and very important features and represents a big advance in the evolution of humanitarian treatment for prisoners of war. "Prisoners of war" now include certain additional categories of persons, notably members of organised resistance movements, operating in or outside their own territory, even if that territory is occupied. Such resistance groups, in order to benefit by the convention, must, however, be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; have a fixed distinctive sign recognisable at a distance; carry arms openly and conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. In addition, members of regular armed forces professing allegiance to a Government or authority not recognised by the detaining power and members of merchant marine and crews of civil aircraft who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under other provisions of international law, are to be regarded and treated as prisoners of war.

There is an important new provision affecting neutral countries in relation to prisoners of war. The broad effect of this provision is that members of the prisoners of war categories received or interned in neutral countries shall be treated as prisoners of war without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which a neutral country may choose to give. Formerly, neutral countries found themselves faced with problems which could only be overcome in their dealings with belligerent forces by the application of the then convention as far as possible "by analogy". Another new feature provides that all persons entitled to be treated as prisoners of war must be issued with identity cards by their own Governments.

There is a great improvement on the former position in relation to pay. Every prisoner of war must in future receive from the detaining power, on behalf of his own country, a monthly advance of pay. Formerly, only officers received ordinary pay and N.C.O.s and men not employed at some remunerative work were entirely without money for ordinary day-to-day needs. The convention provides for the necessary financial adjustments as between the belligerents at the end of hostilities.

Conditions of work for prisoners of war are also now more closely related to those governing similarly employed civilian workers in the same locality. For the first time a minimum rate of working pay is stipulated in the convention. Another important new feature provides that repatriation of prisoners of war shall take place without delay after the cessation of active hostilities instead of, as formerly, as soon as possible after the conclusion of peace.

The convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war, or the Civilians Convention, is an entirely new convention. It defines the categories of persons who are to be regarded as protected persons for the purpose of the convention and details a number of the fundamental rights of such persons.

Protected persons must be afforded a means of existence. Where a party to the conflict applies measures denying them opportunities of supporting themselves that party must ensure their support as well as that of their dependents. Subject to the national interests, protected persons in the territory of a party to the conflict may be permitted to leave the territory. If interned or assigned to a fixed residence their position must be open to periodical review.

Civilian internment conditions are prescribed in detail in the convention and are on a par with those set out for prisoners of war under the Prisoners of War Convention. The Civilians Convention will not be applicable to aliens interned in neutral countries in time of war.

This is the second measure which it is considered desirable to have enacted before the Geneva Conventions of 1949 are ratified. The first measure dealt with the conventions in relation mainly to Red Cross matters and has been enacted as the Red Cross Act, 1954. Deputies will have read the two conventions to which the present measure is related. They have been presented to the House by the Minister for External Affairs and are available in the Library. The present Bill is related closely to those provisions of the two conventions with which the Bill is concerned and contains several references to particular portions of the conventions. In this regard the Bill, to a large extent, relates to powers for the making of regulations. It is obviously necessary to have the Bill in this form because the mass of detail provided for in the conventions could only be satisfactorily dealt with by regulations. Deputies will, however, have an opportunity of examining the regulations which will be laid before the House and be capable of annulment.

Section I of the Bill provides for the usual definitions. In sub-section (2) of Section I the expression "prisoners of war" is related primarily to the definition of that expression in the Prisoners of War Convention. That convention (paragraph A of article 4) defines the expression as meaning members of the armed forces of a party to a conflict who have fallen into the power of the enemy, and as including certain other classes such as militias, volunteer corps and organised resistance movements fulfilling certain conditions; persons accompanying the armed forces without actually being members thereof; merchant seamen who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under other provisions of international law and the inhabitants of a non-occupied territory who take up arms to resist the invader, provided they carry arms openly and obey the laws and customs of war.

The convention also provides (subparagraph (2) of paragraph (B) of article 4) that persons belonging to any of these categories who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent powers on their territory, and whom these powers are required to intern under international law, shall be treated as prisoners of war under the convention without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which may be accorded.

Similarly, the expression "Enemy Aliens" is related to protected persons within the meaning of article 4 of the Civilians Convention. The principal feature in the definition of protected persons in that article is that such persons are those who find themselves, in the case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a party to the conflict or occupying power of which they are not nationals. Some notable exceptions are: (i) nationals of a State not bound by the convention; and, (ii) nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of a belligerent State, and nationals of a cobelligerent State, if their country has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are.

Section 2 of the Bill deals with the internment of prisoners of war and enemy aliens. Provision is made that internment shall be by direction of a Minister. The Prisoners of War Convention provides that the detaining power may subject prisoners of war to internment. The Civilians Convention, however, provides that the internment of a protected person may be ordered only: (i) if the security of the detaining power makes it absolutely necessary; or (ii) if, acting through the representatives of a protecting power, he voluntarily demands internment and his situation renders this step necessary. The convention provides also that where internees so request, their children who are left at liberty without parental care, shall be interned with them.

Sub-section (8) of Section 2 provides for the making by the Minister or the Minister for Justice of regulations in respect of various matters relating to internment. The Minister for Justice would be concerned in so far as the internment of enemy aliens might be his responsibility, because Article 99 of the Civilians Convention provides that every place of internment shall be put under the authority of a responsible officer, chosen from the regular military forces or the regular civil administration of the detaining power.

Sub-section (9) of Section 2 details the nature of the regulations which can be made. Regulations under paragraphs (a) and (b) of the sub-section will deal with matters relating to the establishment of internment camps, the administration, control, etc., of the camps and the maintenance of discipline among internees. The regulations under paragraph (c) of the sub-section will cover a wide variety of matters detailed in the portions specified of the Prisoners of War Convention. Briefly, those portions of the convention may be explained as follows:—

Paragraph (c) (i): The chapters referred to deal with conditions of internment under such headings as the type and location of prisoner-of-war camps, parole, etc., quarters, food and clothing, hygiene and medical attention, religious, intellectual and physical activities, rank of prisoners of war and transfer after arrival in camp.

Paragraph (c) (ii): This portion of the convention deals with the type of work in which the labour of prisoners of war may be utilised and generally with the conditions of work, including occupational accidents and diseases and medical supervision. Officers or persons of equivalent status may not be compelled to work but if they ask for suitable work it shall be found for them. N.C.O.s may be required to do supervisory work only. The working conditions of prisoners of war may not be inferior to those enjoyed by nationals of the detaining power and the national legislation concerning protection and safety of workers will apply to them. Unless he volunteers to do so a prisoner of war may not be employed on work of an unhealthy or dangerous nature such as the removal of mines.

Paragraph (c) (iii): Section IV, Part III of the convention deals with the financial resources of prisoners of war. The detaining power is required to pay prisoners of war a monthly advance of pay (apart from working pay) ranging from the equivalent of eight Swiss francs in the case of prisoners ranking below sergeants to 75 Swiss francs in the case of general officers. These advances, the amounts of which may be modified by agreement between the powers concerned, are subject to recovery from or adjustment with the other power at the end of hostilities. There is also provision for fair working pay, not less than the equivalent of a quarter of a Swiss franc for a full working day. This portion of the convention also sets out in detail the management of prisoners' accounts and how final adjustment is to be made on the termination of captivity.

Paragraph (c) (iv): Section V, Part III of the convention deals with matters relating to correspondence, relief shipments and the preparation, execution and transmission of legal documents.

Paragraph (c) (v): Section VI, Part III of the convention sets forth the rights of prisoners of war in regard to the making of complaints respecting the conditions of captivity. It makes provision for the election and duties of representatives elected from among the prisoners of war. It deals also with provisions concerning penal and disciplinary sanctions, the application to prisoners of war of the laws in force in the armed forces of the detaining power, penalties, punishments and generally with disciplinary and judicial proceedings.

Paragraph (c) (vi): Part IV of the convention makes provision relating to repatriation and release and to matters concerning the death and burial of prisoners of war.

The regulations under paragraph (d) of sub-section (9) will cover the various matters referred to in Section IV, Part III of the Civilians Convention. That portion of the convention relates to matters similar to the various matters I have already explained in relation to prisoners of war.

The provision in sub-section (10) of Section 2 regarding the passing of a sentence involving confinement on an interned person is on the lines of a similar provision in both the Prisoners of War Convention and the Civilians Convention. Section 3 of the Bill provides for the making of regulations by the Minister or the Minister for Justice to enable effect to be given: (i) to any special agreements made pursuant to article 6 of the Prisoners of War Convention or article 7 of the Civilians Convention; and (ii) to the portions of those conventions referred to in sub-sections (2) and (4) and any agreements made pursuant to those portions.

Article 6 of the Prisoners of War Convention and article 7 of the Civilians Convention give power to make special agreements for all matters concerning which separate provision is considered suitable, but no special agreement shall adversely affect the situation of prisoners of war or protected persons under the conventions. Similarly, any other agreements which may be concluded under other portions of the conventions shall not adversely affect the rights and benefits afforded by the conventions.

The following is a brief description of the portions of the Prisoners of War Convention referred to in paragraphs (a) to (f) of sub-section (2) of Section 3:—

Paragraph (a): The part in question of article 5 of the convention provides that should any doubt arise as to whether persons having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories of prisoners of war, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

Paragraph (b): Article 15 of the convention provides that the power detaining prisoners of war shall be bound to provide free of charge for their maintenance and for the medical attention required by their state of health.

Paragraph (c): Article 33 of the convention relates to medical personnel and chaplains retained to assist prisoners of war. Under that article, such persons shall not be considered as prisoners of war but may be retained to assist prisoners of war. They must receive as a minimum the benefits and protection of the convention and must also be granted all facilities necessary to provide for the medical care of, and religious ministration to, prisoners of war.

Paragraph (d): Section 1, Part III of the convention sets out the procedure to be followed and the information which a prisoner of war is bound to furnish on capture. It lays down the particulars which shall be included in the identity cards of prisoners of war and deals generally with the questioning of prisoners of war. It makes provision also for the disposal of personal effects and currency.

Paragraph (e): Part V of the convention concerns the establishment and administration of national information bureaux for the collection and transmission of information regarding matters such as transfers, releases, repatriation, escapes, medical histories and deaths of prisoners of war. It deals also with the facilities to be afforded to representatives of religious organisations and relief societies.

Paragraph (f): Article 126 of the convention relates to the facilities to be afforded to representatives of the protecting powers and delegates of the International Committee of the Red Cross to visit prisoners of war in all places.

The portions of the Civilians Convention referred to in paragraphs (a) to (d) of sub-section (4) may be summarised as follows:—

Paragraph (a): The part in question of article 39 of the convention contains provisions for ensuring the support of an enemy alien and his dependents where methods of control applied in his case result in his being unable to support himself.

Paragraph (b): Article 43 of the convention makes provision for the designation of an appropriate court or administrative board before which an enemy alien shall be entitled to have his internment or placing in assigned residence reconsidered. I shall refer to this again in my remarks relating to Section 6 of the Bill.

Paragraph (c): Articles 136, 137, 138, 139 and 141 of the convention provide for the establishment and administration of national information bureaux for the collection and transmission in the interest of enemy aliens of information regarding matters such as transfers, releases, etc., similar to those I have already detailed in the case of information bureaux for prisoners of war.

Paragraph (d): Articles 142 and 143 of the convention concern facilities to be afforded to representatives of religious organisations, relief societies and representatives or delegates of the protecting powers.

Section 4 of the Bill makes prisoners of war persons subject to military law and places them on the same footing as members of the Defence Forces in relation to the penal and disciplinary provisions of the Defence Act, 1954, and the Orders, regulations and rules made thereunder. This is in conformity with the Prisoners of War Convention which provides under the heading of penal and disciplinary sanctions that a prisoner of war shall be subject to the laws, regulations and Orders in force in the armed forces of the detaining power. There is provision, however, for the adaptation of the penal and disciplinary provisions of the Defence Act and the Orders, regulations and rules made thereunder to meet the particular circumstances of prisoners of war.

The provisions of Section 5 of the Bill regarding sentences and penalties are on the lines of similar provisions contained in both the Prisoners of War Convention and the Civilians Convention.

The Aliens Act, 1935, provides that the Minister for Justice may, if and whenever he thinks proper, in an Aliens Order, require aliens to reside or remain in particular districts or places in the State. Article 42 of the Civilians Convention provides, however, that the placing in assigned residence of protected persons may be ordered only if the security of the detaining power makes it absolutely necessary. The exercise of the relevant power under the Aliens Act is accordingly brought into line with the Civilians Convention by Section 6 of the Bill. There is also provision in this section of the Bill preserving the right of enemy aliens to have their representations against internment or assigned residence considered by a court or competent board which will be established by regulations made under paragraph (b) of sub-section 3 (4) of the Bill.

Section 7 of the Bill provides that charges against an interned enemy alien may, by direction of the Minister, be dealt with by a military tribunal. The Civilians Convention does not specifically provide for trial of enemy aliens by military courts. Neither, however, does it preclude such action and as it is obviously desirable that there should be power in certain circumstances to bring enemy aliens before military courts provision accordingly is made in Section 7 of the Bill.

Section 8 of the Bill makes it an offence punishable by penal servitude or imprisonment for a person, other than a prisoner of war or an interned enemy alien, to assist the escape of a prisoner of war or an interned enemy alien, to harbour a prisoner of war or enemy alien who has escaped from internment, or to procure or attempt to procure other persons to assist the escape of an interned prisoner of war or an interned enemy alien. Prisoners of war and interned enemy aliens are excepted from the provisions of the section because the conventions provide that prisoners of war or interned enemy aliens who aid or abet an escape or attempt to escape, shall be liable on this count to disciplinary punishment only.

Section 9 of the Bill contains the usual provisions requiring the consent of the Minister for Finance to regulations involving a direct or indirect charge on or a payment into public funds.

Section 10 of the Bill provides that every regulation under the Act shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas and shall be capable of annulment.

Section 11 of the Bill contains the usual expenses clause.

Much of what I have said is contained in the explanatory memorandum circulated to Deputies with the text of the Bill. I hope the outline of the provisions of the Bill I have now given, in conjunction with the explanatory memorandum, will be of assistance to Deputies in their consideration of the measure.

I have no doubt that Deputies on all sides of the House will welcome this Bill, because it is, as I already said, a necessary preliminary to our ratifying the conventions. It will, I feel sure, be the earnest wish of the House and indeed of the country as a whole, that Ireland should take her place amongst those nations who by ratifying these conventions have proclaimed their belief in the application of the highest principles of humanity in time of war and their willingness to put these principles into practice.

I suppose it would not be incorrect to describe this Bill as an offspring of the Geneva Convention. In doing so, I should like to express the hope that there will be very many similar offsprings throughout the world. Without seeing a copy of the convention we must, of course, rely on the information contained in the explanatory memorandum, together with an examination of the Bill. I agree with the Minister when he says that this Bill is a very big advance on the position as it obtained hitherto. I hope that the lot of prisoners of war in the future will, as a result of Bills of this kind here and in other countries, be made much easier.

The convention in so far as it relates to civilian persons should go a long way towards eliminating the possibility of a recurrence of the horrors which those unfortunate people were alleged to have had inflicted on them in the past. The convention gives the right to such persons to practise their religion, and it also provides against the use of prisoners as hostages. These provisions alone should recommend the Bill to any fair-minded person.

Everyone in this nation, and indeed in every civilised State, will welcome the protection which this Bill provides. I feel that at a time such as this, when something like ten years have passed since the cessation of hostilities of the last war, it is not civilised that there should be tens of thousands of prisoners of that war still in captivity. There is nothing that the nations appear to be able to do to remedy that state of affairs. I do not know whether questions of that kind were given consideration by the membership of the Geneva Convention. If the question of the holding of prisoners of war after a certain period following the cessation of hostilities was not considered, then I think that it would be very desirable that the delegate or delegates representing Ireland at that convention should, at the first available opportunity, raise that question in the hope that something will be done to bring about an easement of that situation. I cannot see why a matter of that kind cannot be dealt with by a convention of that kind.

I can realise full well that the question of the enforcement of that regulation might present some difficulty, but it should present no greater difficulty than the enforcement of any of these regulations which have been passed by that convention with such goodwill and high hopes. However, the question of having all these regulations enforced in time of war is something that we can only hope for.

Another point which I would like to raise is that concerning the title of "war criminal". We all know that the term "war criminal" was applied only to those who were vanquished. In the circumstances with which we are dealing in this Bill, we should consider seriously the question of whether nations, vanquished or victorious, who have contravened the ordinary rules of civilisation should not in the circumstances be brought to book. We can only talk about what we have read; we cannot see for ourselves definite proofs of any of the statements which were made but we all know that there has been a volume of evidence to show that some of the things to which I am referring have occurred. I think that they could be dealt with perhaps by the non-participating nations who could provide the best legal men in their respective countries to deal with the question of the contravention of regulations which might be put into force by a body like the Geneva Convention. It is only in matters of that kind that I can see any hope being brought to the world as far as war is concerned.

I suppose it is hardly possible to humanise warfare but we could at least make an effort to humanise the treatment of unfortunate victims of warfare. If we do that we, as a nation, will have achieved something of usefulness to civilisation itself.

I would on behalf of the Opposition welcome the advent of this Bill. I think it is a tremendous step forward and I do know as far as our nation is concerned we will give wholehearted effect to the convention. We will do all that we can to carry out these principles contained in the convention and in welcoming the Bill I would express the hope that it will be possible to enforce the regulations it contains in the course of time. At the same time I would like to say that I sincerely hope that it will be a very long time before it is necessary to take effective action under this Bill.

An important discussion of this kind on an international convention should, I think, take place in the presence of an interested audience. The present discussion is taking place with only the Minister present and nobody behind him to support him. There would be general welcome for a measure of this kind and the only doubt one would be likely to express would be as to the general international application of the principles enunciated in the Bill. In so far as it is a step forward, as Deputy Traynor has already stated, in the interests of humanity and the humane treatment of prisoners of war, the Bill is welcome indeed.

Unfortunately, I was not here when the Minister made his introductory statement and I do not know if he told us in how many countries these conventions have been approved and adopted by the respective Parliaments. It would be interesting to know that. I take it the conventions will have only a limited application internationally. Could the Minister tell us, for instance, what countries behind the Iron Curtain have adopted these conventions? Are any of them willing to give effect to them? It would be interesting to know whether these countries are as willing to adopt them—somehow or other, I am inclined to doubt that they are— as are other nations, like ourselves.

I will give the Deputy that information when I am concluding.

The conventions were published so long ago I think we have nearly forgotten the provisions of them. It is unfortunate that time is so limited that it is not easy to implement these things immediately. There are a number of detailed matters in this Bill, the effect of which will be to mitigate conditions for prisoners of war generally. During the last international conflagration, we had to intern certain people who were regarded as enemy aliens, and some others, too; I do not think any of them could complain of the treatment they received in the rather benign conditions under which they were interned. I am afraid the same cannot be said of other countries.

Of course, when countries are actually engaged in war, no matter what international conventions are adopted, the human element will enter into the question of the treatment that is meted out. As far as we are concerned, I do not think anyone could complain of conditions. The only thing we can hope for now is that those countries which are adopting, or have adopted, these conventions will implement the principles enunciated therein. I hope it will receive international approval. Equally, I hope that the necessity for implementing these principles will never arise again, at least in our lifetime. But if the letter and the spirit of these conventions are applied, then the lot of prisoners of war in the future, should we be faced with such an eventuality, will be mitigated to a very great extent.

I should like the Minister to tell us if any of the provisions of the Emergency Powers Orders are incorporated in this measure. Having read it and the explanatory memorandum, I doubt if they are.

The Minister gave us a detailed and factual explanation and went to a good deal of trouble to interpret the provisions in the Bill. Indeed, he gave us a great deal of valuable information. It is a rather involved and somewhat difficult Bill and, in order to study it properly, it is essential that one should have the terms of the conventions before one; but the Minister has certainly done his best to explain the Bill as fully as possible and we are grateful to him. We welcome the introduction of this measure.

I am grateful for the manner in which the House has received these proposals. I shall place on record now the contracting or consenting parties. Forty-six countries have ratified the conventions and 23 are in process of ratifying; we are one of the 23. These conventions were signed in 1949, but, for some reason or another, there has been a bit of delay and I am now trying to speed things up by having the necessary domestic legislation passed before we ratify. Ratification cannot take place until all the essential domestic legislation has been passed.

The following countries have ratified: Austria, 1954; Belgium, 1953; Bulgaria, with reservations, 1955; Byelorussia, with reservations, 1955; Chile, 1951; Cuba, 1954; Czechoslovakia, with reservations, 1951; Denmark, 1951; Ecuador, 1955; Egypt, 1953; Finland, 1955; France, 1951; the Federal Republic of Germany, 1955; Guatemala, 1952; The Holy See, 1951; Hungary, with reservations, 1955; India, 1951; Israel, 1951; Italy, 1952; Japan, 1953; Jordania, 1951; Yugoslavia, with reservations, 1950; Lebanon, 1951; Liberia, 1954; Liechtenstein, 1951; Luxembourg, 1954; Mexico, 1953; the Netherlands, with reservations, 1955; Nicaragua, 1954; Norway, 1952; Pakistan, with reservations, 1951; Philippines, Convention I in 1951 and Conventions II, III and IV in 1953; Poland, 1955; Roumania, with reservations, 1954; Salvador, 1953; San Marino, 1954; Spain, 1953; Sweden, 1954; Switzerland, 1950; Syria, 1954; Thailand, 1955; Turkey, 1954; the Ukraine, with reservations, 1955; the U.S.S.R., with reservations, 1954; the Union of South Africa, 1952; and Vietnam, 1954.

The countries who are in the same position as we are in—namely, those that have signed but have not yet ratified—are the following: Afghanistan; Albania, with reservations; Argentina, with reservations; Australia; Bolivia; Brazil, with reservations; Canada, with reservations; Ceylon, Conventions I, II and III; China; Columbia; Ethiopia; Greece; Iran; Monaco; New Zealand, with reservations; Paraguay; Peru; Portugal, with reservations; United Kingdom, with reservations; United States of America, with reservations; Uruguay and Venezuela.

That, as far as we know, is the position to-day. We cannot start condemning anybody for not having ratified when we have not done so ourselves, but I am now trying to get into the proper line.

We are not so bad. Quite a number only did it last year.

I regret more than I can say that my predecessor and the Leader of the Opposition have not got these documents. If I thought that they had not got them, I would have sent them to them. I was under the impression that they had got them. I admit that they were only placed in the Library of this House in January of this year, but documents placed in the Library of the House are almost in no-man's land. I know the difficulties about that. I will send my predecessor a copy of these documents for his immediate consideration. It is impossible to read the Bill, without having these documents in front of you. You are legislating by reference and taking article so-and-so of the convention and seeing what its effect is.

Deputy Traynor raised the question of the trial of alleged war criminals. Article 129 of the Prisoners of War Convention and article 146 of the Civilians Convention provide for the trial and punishment of persons who commit grave breaches of the provisions of the conventions. It is the Minister for Justice who has to bring in the domestic legislation to deal with that here. These articles set out the procedure to be adopted in future for the trial of all persons charged with grave breaches of the Prisoners of War Convention and the Civilians Convention.

Who would be the court?

The whole thing is laid down. I suppose that in the case of a neutral country, such as Ireland, the person charging has to make out a prima facie case that will satisfy this country that we should hand them over. There must be some agreement in those cases that there is a case and that they are guilty of breaches of these conventions, that they have been guilty of serious offences under these conventions. The article is:—

"The High Contracting Parties undertake to enact any legislation necessary to provide effective penal sanctions for persons committing, or ordering to be committed, any of the grave breaches of the present convention defined in the following article.

Each High Contracting Party shall be under the obligation to search for persons alleged to have committed, or to have ordered to be committed, such grave breaches, and shall bring such persons, regardless of their nationality, before its own courts. It may also, if it prefers, and in accordance with the provisions of its own legislation, hand such persons over for trial to another High Contracting Party concerned, provided such High Contracting Party has made out a prima facie case.

Each High Contracting Party shall take measures necessary for the suppression of all acts contrary to the provisions of the present convention other than the grave breaches defined in the following article.

In all the circumstances, the accused persons shall benefit by safeguards of proper trial and defence, which shall not be less favourable than those provided by article 105 and those following of the present convention."

It would be an offence to treat them incorrectly. There is a whole series of provisions laid down for dealing with that.

I was thinking more along the lines of nations.

I am glad that the matter has been dealt with in this way.

I was apparently wrong in the questions I asked in regard to the type of countries ratifying. The suspicions I gave expression to were not justified. They ratified with reservations.

Reservations do not take from the conventions, particularly when you consider the countries which have reservations, such as Albania, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, New Zealand, Portugal, the United Kingdom and the United States of America. We have no reservations, anyway.

Are there any emergency powers prescribed in this Bill?

This Bill only gives me the power to make regulations which must be brought before the House.

Did I gather that there is further legislation to be brought in on these matters?

There is only one other Bill.

Question put and agreed to.
Barr
Roinn